Difficulty Settings

[Pubcrawler]

Hi all. Quick question about settings for a challenging game.

I like to play as the Union and during my last game achieved a victory in early '63. The AI did make some significant mistakes, for example, she was very aggressive and I was able to trap and destroy two large corps in the Washington/Alexandria area (good way to get VPs). For the most part during this game, I was able to move unchecked thru the south with only supply lines to worry about.

My question is, what are the optimum settings for a challenging game against the AI, without allowing the AI to 'cheat'? By cheating, I'm talking about mysterious transportation of units across the map, ignoring supply rules, one militia unit able to attack and beat, say, an entrenched stack of three infantry units and an arty (not to say that Athena would cheat, I've not experienced it, but have played other games that increase difficulty only by making the AI invincible).

*EDIT* I play on default settings and give the AI more time.

[Paul Roberts]

Well, one thing I'd say is that "mysterious transportation"--if you mean leader redeployment--is much more realistic than it may appear. This procedure is meant to represent the relative ease of moving a leader and a small staff by rail across long distances.

The normal rail movement rates are based on the transport of large military units, which involves collecting rolling stock and arranging special trains for the purpose of shuttling thousands of men (plus their horses and kit, as well as the supplies involved). Giving a single leader a rail movement order with these rules can result in some very unrealistic situations.

For instance, I recently ordered a general from Baltimore to Philadelphia using normal rail transport, and the game indicated that this would take a week. Since the distance is only about 100 miles, I'm pretty sure the general could walk it in less time than the train would require. Unit redeployment, which is only available for what are after all very small groups of men, is more realistic than the normal rules in this case.

Basically, there are few situations where unit redeployment does much harm to realism. Even a trip from DC to Minnesota, for a single leader and staff, would take fewer than the 15 days of a game turn. The only glaring cases are with isolated units, but a "house rule" takes care of that nicely, and I don't think the AI is programmed to be that devious.

[soundoff]

Well, one thing I'd say is that "mysterious transportation"--if you mean leader redeployment--is much more realistic than it may appear. This procedure is meant to represent the relative ease of moving a leader and a small staff by rail across long distances.

The normal rail movement rates are based on the transport of large military units, which involves collecting rolling stock and arranging special trains for the purpose of shuttling thousands of men (plus their horses and kit, as well as the supplies involved). Giving a single leader a rail movement order with these rules can result in some very unrealistic situations.

For instance, I recently ordered a general from Baltimore to Philadelphia using normal rail transport, and the game indicated that this would take a week. Since the distance is only about 100 miles, I'm pretty sure the general could walk it in less time than the train would require. Unit redeployment, which is only available for what are after all very small groups of men, is more realistic than the normal rules in this case.

Basically, there are few situations where unit redeployment does much harm to realism. Even a trip from DC to Minnesota, for a single leader and staff, would take fewer than the 15 days of a game turn. The only glaring cases are with isolated units, but a "house rule" takes care of that nicely, and I don't think the AI is programmed to be that devious.

I would argue against this position. For the AI redeployment (even though I dont play against is these days) is necessary in order to give it an edge. But for a human player I certainly think its use is more often than not 'gamey'.

Just wait until that poorly led CSA Corp you were facing outside of Paducah is suddenly and miraculously being led by Stonewall the moment you put in the assault order when at the end of the previous turn Jackson was sitting at Winchester. Or see that Union Army led by McDowell at Alexandria turn into an Army commanded by US Grant in the blink of an eyelid and before you have time to make any sort of reaction. And thats only allowing one redeployment per turn

My own position in PBEM is that I like to have a house rule that says no redeployments at all with one exception that you can redeploy an Army HQ only. Even that redeployment has to be announced on the turn it is to be made to the opponent so they can potentially plan for Corps beginning to pop up all over the place.

[arsan]

Just wait until that poorly led CSA Corp you were facing outside of Paducah is suddenly and miraculously being led by Stonewall the moment you put in the assault order when at the end of the previous turn Jackson was sitting at Winchester. Or see that Union Army led by McDowell at Alexandria turn into an Army commanded by US Grant in the blink of an eyelid and before you have time to make any sort of reaction. And thats only allowing one redeployment per turn.

I imagine McClellan woudl be as pissed off on the Peninsula when "on the blink of an eye" the ANV stopped being led by the cautious JE Johnston and Lee took command .
The redeployment (or teleporting as some of us like to call it :neener has two reasons: help the AI to use all the generals she receive on the capital and help the player to distribute them with reasonable travel times.
As Paul Roberts explains, railroad move times are OK for the logistical feat it supposed to transport thousands of men by train back then.
But leader and small groups could cross the country in just a few days.
About gamey uses, the system lowers the stats of the redeployed leader for one turn and make them inactive (if i remember right) to stop the most blatant gamey uses.
Against the rest, PBEM "house rules" looks like the best solution.
If an AI player wants to play gamey tactics against the AI its his call. He only "fools" himself.
Regards

[Paul Roberts]

All of my PBEM games involve a house rule that redeployments should be "reasonable," which means limited to conditions under which moving a leader by rail and horse would be possible. It's reasonable for a Union general and his staff to "teleport" from Chicago to New York because individuals could easily make that train trip in one turn. However, moving from DC to (say) occupied New Orleans is disallowed because there is no safe rail and road net along the way.

In practice, I find that 99% of leader redeployments involve teleporting the general from DC/Richmond into the theater where he will then spend most of the war. I have never even tried a "tactical" redeployment for the sole purpose of an upcoming battle, and the temporary reduction in leader stats makes that a foolish idea anyway.

The game engine does include two points that seem right in line with my house rule:
1) It's impossible to redeploy a leader into or out of a location under siege,
2) Admirals cannot be redeployed (obviously they can't take an express train to the middle of the Atlantic or the Gulf).

[lodilefty]

I would argue against this position. For the AI redeployment (even though I dont play against is these days) is necessary in order to give it an edge. But for a human player I certainly think its use is more often than not 'gamey'.

Just wait until that poorly led CSA Corp you were facing outside of Paducah is suddenly and miraculously being led by Stonewall the moment you put in the assault order when at the end of the previous turn Jackson was sitting at Winchester. Or see that Union Army led by McDowell at Alexandria turn into an Army commanded by US Grant in the blink of an eyelid and before you have time to make any sort of reaction. And thats only allowing one redeployment per turn

My own position in PBEM is that I like to have a house rule that says no redeployments at all with one exception that you can redeploy an Army HQ only. Even that redeployment has to be announced on the turn it is to be made to the opponent so they can potentially plan for Corps beginning to pop up all over the place.

Of course, you can select the 'first box' for redeployments under Game Options. Player then gets 0, AI gets 3.

I assume that this would disable it in PBEM for both players.....

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Clovis]

Hi all. Quick question about settings for a challenging game.

I like to play as the Union and during my last game achieved a victory in early '63. The AI did make some significant mistakes, for example, she was very aggressive and I was able to trap and destroy two large corps in the Washington/Alexandria area (good way to get VPs). For the most part during this game, I was able to move unchecked thru the south with only supply lines to worry about.

My question is, what are the optimum settings for a challenging game against the AI, without allowing the AI to 'cheat'? By cheating, I'm talking about mysterious transportation of units across the map, ignoring supply rules, one militia unit able to attack and beat, say, an entrenched stack of three infantry units and an arty (not to say that Athena would cheat, I've not experienced it, but have played other games that increase difficulty only by making the AI invincible).

*EDIT* I play on default settings and give the AI more time.

Give AI a medium FOG advantage , a +1 bonus in activation.

[soundoff]

Of course, you can select the 'first box' for redeployments under Game Options. Player then gets 0, AI gets 3.

I assume that this would disable it in PBEM for both players.....

Yes it does but as I said I do like to be able to immediately deploy an Army HQ. I do so on the basis that I know such a unit would take some time to gather which is reflected in the game by the fact that it does take time to form. I do not like, but do understand why, they are usually created at the Capitol and not at the location of the commander who is to lead the army.

[soundoff]

I've had this discussion elsewhere, and though I agree witht the idea of a Leader or other applicable service asset being able to utilize this redeployment feature, I personally think that after the redeployment move:

1.) They should not have any movement capability left including rail repair capability.

2.) If a leader, they should not be able to be assigned command of anything until the next turn.

In other words, if they "redeploy" that's it for their turn.

+1 Its the ability to redeploy and use that gets me though I know that many would contend that all the 'redeploy' facility does is speed up movement. In my opinion though it does more than speed up movement for such commanders and units. It actually takes no time at all. Heck its even actioned before movement is actually processed.

[lodilefty]

Yes it does but as I said I do like to be able to immediately deploy an Army HQ. I do so on the basis that I know such a unit would take some time to gather which is reflected in the game by the fact that it does take time to form. I do not like, but do understand why, they are usually created at the Capitol and not at the location of the commander who is to lead the army.

How does the game engine know who you or Athena wants to lead the army?

Instant transport of Army HQ makes even less sense to me, as it includes artillery, which certainly can't move as fast as a leader with his staff. We need to be consistant with our positions in the debate.....

seems that Army HQ should appear with the 'senior available' 3 star, or at the Capital if no available 3 stars....

[soundoff]

How does the game engine know who you or Athena wants to lead the army?

Instant transport of Army HQ makes even less sense to me, as it includes artillery, which certainly can't move as fast as a leader with his staff. We need to be consistant with our positions in the debate.....

seems that Army HQ should appear with the 'senior available' 3 star, or at the Capital if no available 3 stars....

Well I readily accept that the AI should get all the redeploys it needs. Was talking purely from the human player perspective. As I only ever do make the most 'senior available' 3 star the next army commander, as I hope do my PBEM opponents, I trust that they do, I'd be quite happy for the Army HQ unit to be formed where the next senior available 3 star is located at the time of making the purchase Army HQ.

In part I'm not comfortable with it containing artillery and yet redeploying it but I'm less comfortable with it appearing say in Richmond and needing to get it to Nashville for Johnstone and having to rail it or worse if the lines are cut purely because the game engine automatically creates army HQ's at the capitol. I'm more than happy to take my chances moving balloons, signals, commanders, engineers etc.

Of course you could come back at me and say why not move the next senior 3 star to Richmond or Washington to pick up the army HQ. Trouble is thats the cart before the horse as the support unit for the commanding officer would be formed around him rather than the other way .....assuming of course he was not relieving someone else of command.

I should also say in reply to your question 'How does the game engine know who you or Athena wants to lead the army?' It has no idea. But then thats a limitation of the game engine. Ideally there should be some way of entering who is to head up the army you are creating so that the HQ unit appears in the right location....but I do not suppose that can be accommodated.

[Pubcrawler]

Give AI a medium FOG advantage , a +1 bonus in activation.

Thanks Clovis. I'll give that a try on my next game. or, can I change settings mid-game? I've not tried that yet.

Just a point of clarification, I wasn't talking about general's redeploy feature; I'm okay with that. It was more of a question if anyone has had experience on more difficult settings with the AI mysteriously transporting infantry or calvary. Of course, I've not experienced this with AACW, but have seen it happen in games like HOI2.

[ghostlight]

Give AI a medium FOG advantage , a +1 bonus in activation.

The poor newbie asks a simple question and it takes 7 responses before someone deigns to answer him.

[squarian]

can I change settings mid-game? I've not tried that yet.

I believe so - at least, I have changed settings mid-game with no apparent ill effects.

[Primasprit]

Yes, they can be changed any time.

[arsan]

It was more of a question if anyone has had experience on more difficult settings with the AI mysteriously transporting infantry or calvary. Of course, I've not experienced this with AACW, but have seen it happen in games like HOI2.

Hi
No, the AI does not "cheat" at higher difficulties. She plays with the same rules than you with the exceptions you can set on the options menu (bonus on detection, activation, redeployment uses and the like).
For what i know (basically what the tooltip says) the hard and very hard settings give a some advantages to the AI units on speed, combat power, cohesion and the like.
But i'm not sure how it's done... A % plus? extra experience?
Regards

[Clovis]

If you're playing against CSA AI, open the CSA events file in the AACW Events folder and paste this, it should stop long range raids by AI ( except if Foreign Intervention level reaches 85, and until it comes back to 60):


SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/04/10
MaxDate = 1862/04/25
probability = 75

Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|50|$Rockland, NJ|50|$Philadelphia, PA|50|$Cuyahoga, OH|50|$Hendricks, IN|50|$Chicago, IL|50|$Racine, WI|50|$Dubuque, IA|50|$Westmoreland, PA|60


EndEvent


SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings38|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/04/10
MaxDate = 1862/02/25
probability = 90

Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $Ardana, IL|5|$Morrison, IL|5|$Monmouth, IL|5|$Rock, IL|5|$Dixon, IL|5|$Sycamore, IL|5|$Woodstock, IL|5|$Carthage, IL|5|$Gales, IL|5|$Rochelle, IL|5|$Bureau, IL|5|$Aurora, IL|5|$Joliet, IL|5|$Quincy, IL|5|$Sterling, IL|5|$Lewis, IL|5|$Peoria, IL|5|$Bushnell, IL|5|$Pontiac, IL|5|$Kantakee, IL|5|$Gilead, IL|5|$Carroll, IL|5|$Jackson, IL|5|$Bath, IL|5|$Bloomington, IL|5|$Alton, IL|5|$Carlin, IL|5|$Rookhouse, IL|5|$Springfield, IL|5|$Decatur, IL|5|$La Salle, IL|5|$Gilman, IL|5|$Belleville, IL|5|$Fenron, IL|5|$Carlyle, IL|5|$Pana, IL|5|$French, IL|5|$Toledo, IL|5|$Herbert, IL|5|$Danville, IL|5|$Chester, IL|5|$Ward, IL|5|$Pinckney, IL|5|$Salem, IL|5|$Howard, IL|5|$Mattoon, IL|5|$Effingham, IL|5|$Greenup, IL|5|$Terre Haute, IL|5|$Palestine, IL|5|$Alexander, IL|5|$Benton, IL|5|$McLean, IL|5|$Kinsale, IL|5|$Elizabeth, IL|5|$Carnie, IL|5|$Laporte, IL|5|$Lasalle Run|5|$Joliet Landing|5
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $Lake, IN|5|$Newton, IN|5|$Starke, IN|5|$Marshall, IN|5|$La Grange, IN|5|$Benton, IN|5|$Jasper, IN|5|$Whitley, IN|5|$Allen, IN|5|$Fountain, IN|5|$Tippecanoe, IN|5|$Carroll, IN|5|$Wabash, IN|5|$Adams, IN|5|$Vigo, IN|5|$Clay, IN|5|$Hendricks, IN|5|$Owen, IN|5|$Montgomery, IN|5|$Johnson, IN|5|$Wayne, IN|5|$Knox, IN|5|$Pike, IN|5|$Lawrence, IN|5|$Brown, IN|5|$Shelby, IN|5|$Rush, IN|5|$Posey, IN|5|$Warrick, IN|5|$Dubois, IN|5|$Perry, IN|5|$Orange, IN|5|$Harrison, IN|5|$Scott, IN|5|$Jefferson, IN|5|$Dearborn, IN|5


EndEvent



SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings2|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/07/01
MaxDate = 1866/04/01
EvalForeignEntry =>;85
EvalEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings;=;1


Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|100|$Rockland, NJ|100|$Philadelphia, PA|100|$Cuyahoga, OH|100|$Hendricks, IN|100|$Chicago, IL|100|$Racine, WI|100|$Dubuque, IA|100|$Westmoreland, PA|100

EndEvent



SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings29|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/07/01
MaxDate = 1866/04/01
EvalForeignEntry <=;60
EvalEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings2;=;1


Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|-100|$Rockland, NJ|-100|$Philadelphia, PA|-100|$Cuyahoga, OH|-100|$Hendricks, IN|-100|$Chicago, IL|-100|$Racine, WI|-100|$Dubuque, IA|-100|$Westmoreland, PA|-100

EndEvent

[Clovis]

And here Virginia in dec 61 against CSA AI in current SVF version:

[Paul Roberts]

Clovis,

I know that a picture is worth 1,000 words, but I don't get it. What does the screenshot illustrate?

[Clovis]

Clovis,

I know that a picture is worth 1,000 words, but I don't get it. What does the screenshot illustrate?

CSA AI on defensive, protecting Richmond rather than taking offensive in the North as said in the first post.

[Pubcrawler]

Well, I've upped the difficulty in my latest game and I can really tell the difference!

The AI is making some great moves and causing me a lot of heartache.

[Injun]

Well, I've upped the difficulty in my latest game and I can really tell the difference!

The AI is making some great moves and causing me a lot of heartache.

What settings are you using?

[Injun]

If you're playing against CSA AI, open the CSA events file in the AACW Events folder and paste this, it should stop long range raids by AI ( except if Foreign Intervention level reaches 85, and until it comes back to 60):


SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/04/10
MaxDate = 1862/04/25
probability = 75

Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|50|$Rockland, NJ|50|$Philadelphia, PA|50|$Cuyahoga, OH|50|$Hendricks, IN|50|$Chicago, IL|50|$Racine, WI|50|$Dubuque, IA|50|$Westmoreland, PA|60


EndEvent


SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings38|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/04/10
MaxDate = 1862/02/25
probability = 90

Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $Ardana, IL|5|$Morrison, IL|5|$Monmouth, IL|5|$Rock, IL|5|$Dixon, IL|5|$Sycamore, IL|5|$Woodstock, IL|5|$Carthage, IL|5|$Gales, IL|5|$Rochelle, IL|5|$Bureau, IL|5|$Aurora, IL|5|$Joliet, IL|5|$Quincy, IL|5|$Sterling, IL|5|$Lewis, IL|5|$Peoria, IL|5|$Bushnell, IL|5|$Pontiac, IL|5|$Kantakee, IL|5|$Gilead, IL|5|$Carroll, IL|5|$Jackson, IL|5|$Bath, IL|5|$Bloomington, IL|5|$Alton, IL|5|$Carlin, IL|5|$Rookhouse, IL|5|$Springfield, IL|5|$Decatur, IL|5|$La Salle, IL|5|$Gilman, IL|5|$Belleville, IL|5|$Fenron, IL|5|$Carlyle, IL|5|$Pana, IL|5|$French, IL|5|$Toledo, IL|5|$Herbert, IL|5|$Danville, IL|5|$Chester, IL|5|$Ward, IL|5|$Pinckney, IL|5|$Salem, IL|5|$Howard, IL|5|$Mattoon, IL|5|$Effingham, IL|5|$Greenup, IL|5|$Terre Haute, IL|5|$Palestine, IL|5|$Alexander, IL|5|$Benton, IL|5|$McLean, IL|5|$Kinsale, IL|5|$Elizabeth, IL|5|$Carnie, IL|5|$Laporte, IL|5|$Lasalle Run|5|$Joliet Landing|5
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $Lake, IN|5|$Newton, IN|5|$Starke, IN|5|$Marshall, IN|5|$La Grange, IN|5|$Benton, IN|5|$Jasper, IN|5|$Whitley, IN|5|$Allen, IN|5|$Fountain, IN|5|$Tippecanoe, IN|5|$Carroll, IN|5|$Wabash, IN|5|$Adams, IN|5|$Vigo, IN|5|$Clay, IN|5|$Hendricks, IN|5|$Owen, IN|5|$Montgomery, IN|5|$Johnson, IN|5|$Wayne, IN|5|$Knox, IN|5|$Pike, IN|5|$Lawrence, IN|5|$Brown, IN|5|$Shelby, IN|5|$Rush, IN|5|$Posey, IN|5|$Warrick, IN|5|$Dubois, IN|5|$Perry, IN|5|$Orange, IN|5|$Harrison, IN|5|$Scott, IN|5|$Jefferson, IN|5|$Dearborn, IN|5


EndEvent



SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings2|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/07/01
MaxDate = 1866/04/01
EvalForeignEntry =>;85
EvalEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings;=;1


Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|100|$Rockland, NJ|100|$Philadelphia, PA|100|$Cuyahoga, OH|100|$Hendricks, IN|100|$Chicago, IL|100|$Racine, WI|100|$Dubuque, IA|100|$Westmoreland, PA|100

EndEvent



SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Richmond, VA
StartEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings29|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Richmond, VA|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/07/01
MaxDate = 1866/04/01
EvalForeignEntry <=;60
EvalEvent = evt_nam_CSA_AIsettings2;=;1


Actions
AI.ChgLocalInterest = $New York, NY|-100|$Rockland, NJ|-100|$Philadelphia, PA|-100|$Cuyahoga, OH|-100|$Hendricks, IN|-100|$Chicago, IL|-100|$Racine, WI|-100|$Dubuque, IA|-100|$Westmoreland, PA|-100

EndEvent

Clovis does it matter where in the filethis is pasted ordes itneed to bein the beginning or end of the file?

[Clovis]

Clovis does it matter where in the filethis is pasted ordes itneed to bein the beginning or end of the file?

It doesn't matter. Now, the number of events for guiding AI is now a little higher...

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Clovis]

Clovis

Interesting, but I wonder why as a beta, you have not posted the same information in the Beta forums for us to discuss and possibly look into placing directly in the "official" files for the next update?

To be honest, that was the whole reason for making you an AACW Beta since you are loaded with such useful information.

This info was placed before I joined the beta team . The rest is under test in my mod until completion

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Clovis]

The reason I ask is because there's already another solution in the works and it doesn't help to be working at cross purposes. The two solutions may or may not be detrimental to each other and we should be testing these things in the beta area to determine if in fact they are before making them available to the general users. Either that or keep the information in the AACW Mods subforum as experimental information. By definition, what you posted above is a MOD. I like your solution by the way. I just don't want to have to backtrack because of data conflicts.

edit> By the way you were an AACW beta prior to Jan 14, 2009

see post #3 :http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=12639

That's why I'm implementing fist in SVF, as the normal solution under way will be aplied in SVF too. So in case of troubles only SVF, whose first name was "experimental mod" will be affected.

On the contrary, I will have not lost time. And with some adpatation the normal AI behaviour will be enhanced.

Yse I wass beta since 2 days. Not in mind manifestly