How are units with repeating firearms modeled? Are they considered elite units?
I am thinking of units armed principally with repeating rifles, not in cases where only a few soldiers are equiped with them.
Here is what I found and my humble conclusions. 
Henrys
Approximately 14,000 Henry rifles were made and most were made during the Civil War. Total quantity purchased by the U.S. Government is 1,731, many of which are in a narrow serial number range of 3,000 to 4,200. The narrow serial number range strongly suggests purchases earlier in the War were not repeated. The Spencer was more powerful and reliable for rugged field use.
Conclusion: Not enough produced to model significantly outside of rare special individual units.
Spencer
Procurement figures say the Union ordered 94,196 Spencer’s between 1861-1866. The initial delivery date of Dec. 1861 was delayed for more than a year due to production problem with the guns extractor. When the war ended, 105,804 of the 200,000 produced had been purchased by private individuals. First real action where they made a significant appearance was at Antietam.
Conclusion: Significant numbers to model. Not appearing in great numbers till mid to late 1863. Mostly to cavalry and mounted infantry. While reg. infantry did have access to this carbine. They were mostly individualy purchased and therefore would be considered one of a kind special or elite units. The 7th Conn. Inf. are known to have acquired them prior to the battle of Olustee in Nov.1863. Not used at all by the south due to ammunition being unattainable. Partialy modeled with the increase in Union late Cav.
Sharps
80,000 were produced during the war of which the Union only purchased about 10,000. Once again there was significant private purchasing by individual soldiers and units on both sides. Called the Richmond sharps by the south. Mostly used as a cavalry weapon due to it’s ease of use and 600 yd accuracy.
Conclusion: Already modeled with the increase in Union late Cav.
Note: Individualy purchased also includes purchases by officers for their men.
Nial
Henrys
Approximately 14,000 Henry rifles were made and most were made during the Civil War. Total quantity purchased by the U.S. Government is 1,731, many of which are in a narrow serial number range of 3,000 to 4,200. The narrow serial number range strongly suggests purchases earlier in the War were not repeated. The Spencer was more powerful and reliable for rugged field use.
Conclusion: Not enough produced to model significantly outside of rare special individual units.
Spencer
Procurement figures say the Union ordered 94,196 Spencer’s between 1861-1866. The initial delivery date of Dec. 1861 was delayed for more than a year due to production problem with the guns extractor. When the war ended, 105,804 of the 200,000 produced had been purchased by private individuals. First real action where they made a significant appearance was at Antietam.
Conclusion: Significant numbers to model. Not appearing in great numbers till mid to late 1863. Mostly to cavalry and mounted infantry. While reg. infantry did have access to this carbine. They were mostly individualy purchased and therefore would be considered one of a kind special or elite units. The 7th Conn. Inf. are known to have acquired them prior to the battle of Olustee in Nov.1863. Not used at all by the south due to ammunition being unattainable. Partialy modeled with the increase in Union late Cav.
Sharps
80,000 were produced during the war of which the Union only purchased about 10,000. Once again there was significant private purchasing by individual soldiers and units on both sides. Called the Richmond sharps by the south. Mostly used as a cavalry weapon due to it’s ease of use and 600 yd accuracy.
Conclusion: Already modeled with the increase in Union late Cav.
Note: Individualy purchased also includes purchases by officers for their men.
Nial
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Repeating Rifles
I am talking about repeating rifles - not carbines which are modeled already in the game.
21st Ohio Inf Rgt - Colt Revolving Rifle
Wilder's Brigade Mounted Infantry 17th and 72nd Indiana, the 123rd, 98th and 92nd Illinois with Spencer Repeating Rifles
1st and 2nd US SS Rgts with Sharp's Rifles
37th Mass Inf Rgt Spencer Rifles
Many more - I suppose you could consider them equal to Sharpshooter units or late war infantry?
Perhaps the term Sharpshooter comes from the Sharp's Rifle?
21st Ohio Inf Rgt - Colt Revolving Rifle
Wilder's Brigade Mounted Infantry 17th and 72nd Indiana, the 123rd, 98th and 92nd Illinois with Spencer Repeating Rifles
1st and 2nd US SS Rgts with Sharp's Rifles
37th Mass Inf Rgt Spencer Rifles
Many more - I suppose you could consider them equal to Sharpshooter units or late war infantry?
Perhaps the term Sharpshooter comes from the Sharp's Rifle?
Heeward wrote:I am talking about repeating rifles - not carbines which are modeled already in the game.
21st Ohio Inf Rgt - Colt Revolving Rifle
Wilder's Brigade Mounted Infantry 17th and 72nd Indiana, the 123rd, 98th and 92nd Illinois with Spencer Repeating Rifles
1st and 2nd US SS Rgts with Sharp's Rifles
37th Mass Inf Rgt Spencer Rifles
Many more - I suppose you could consider them equal to Sharpshooter units or late war infantry?
Perhaps the term Sharpshooter comes from the Sharp's Rifle?
I'm not sure what kind of distinction you are trying to draw here... Apart from the Colt that you mentioned, you're talking about the same thing.
My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
Knight of New Hampshire
I didn't mention the colt because although the Union purchased 4712 of these, they were soon regulated to the storage shed (taken out of service) due to their unfortunate tendency to fire all barrels at once, frequently amputating the users fingers in the process.
As Soloswolf pointed out the spencer and the sharps repeating rifles are carbines.
Nial
As Soloswolf pointed out the spencer and the sharps repeating rifles are carbines.
Nial
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Eugene Carr
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Up to July of 1863, only rifles had been built. Most of these had been issued to _cavalry and mounted infantry_. As popular as they were, there was an almost immediate call for carbines. The rifles were too heavy and cumbersome for mounted service. Also, not being equipped with a sling ring, there was a very great danger of loosing the weapon if it was dropped, leaving the unfortu nate trooper unarmed.
Spencer had originally built rifles because the Army refused to raise state cavalry regiments early in the war. The belief in Washington was that the conflict would be over in less than the two years required to properly train a cavalry regiment. Now that Federal volunteer cavalry was becoming effective (strangely enough, two years into the war), the need for first class carbines was great.
In June of 1863, as the last of the Army's 7500 rifles were being delivered, the Spencer company approached the War Department with a proposal to deliver carbines. This was quickly accepted and led to a contract for 11,000 of the short guns. Initial delivery was to begin in August and be complete before the end of the year. The price was set at $25.
As usual, deliveries were late, but much less than before. The first carbines were accepted on October 3rd, 1863. Seven thousand were turned over to the Army by year's end. This time the order was not reduced for late deliveries. The worth of the repeaters was finally being appreciated. Before the contract was completed, the quantity was increased to 34,500.15
The Spencer Repeating Rifle Company was finally beginning to thrive. There would be more problems, but the repeating weapon for the average trooper was finally beginning to be appreciated. The American Civil War was making the transition from the wars of the past to the wars of the future. In part this was due to the efforts of a single Yankee mechanical genius.
In all, during the War for Southern Independence, the Spencer company delivered 12,472 rifles, including 1003 for the Navy as well as Wilder's and the Massachusetts guns, both of which were diverted to the Federal Ordinance Department. The number of M1860 carbines made by Spencer eventually totaled 45,785. An additional 30,502 M1865 carbines were made by the Burnside company, but deliveries started just at the end of the war, so none were actually in service before the Army of Northern Virginia surrendered. There were a few thousand civilian sales in addition to government deliveries. Many troops took advantage of a government offer and purchased their Spencers when they mustered out at the close of the war
12,500 total rifles is not alot. And still most of those were sent to cav and mounted inf.
Only references to the sharps rifle I can find is as strictly a sharpshooters weapon. Any other info would be welcome. But we have Sharpshooter units already in the game. A case could be made for having Union SS units have a late war bonus like US cav.
Nial
Spencer had originally built rifles because the Army refused to raise state cavalry regiments early in the war. The belief in Washington was that the conflict would be over in less than the two years required to properly train a cavalry regiment. Now that Federal volunteer cavalry was becoming effective (strangely enough, two years into the war), the need for first class carbines was great.
In June of 1863, as the last of the Army's 7500 rifles were being delivered, the Spencer company approached the War Department with a proposal to deliver carbines. This was quickly accepted and led to a contract for 11,000 of the short guns. Initial delivery was to begin in August and be complete before the end of the year. The price was set at $25.
As usual, deliveries were late, but much less than before. The first carbines were accepted on October 3rd, 1863. Seven thousand were turned over to the Army by year's end. This time the order was not reduced for late deliveries. The worth of the repeaters was finally being appreciated. Before the contract was completed, the quantity was increased to 34,500.15
The Spencer Repeating Rifle Company was finally beginning to thrive. There would be more problems, but the repeating weapon for the average trooper was finally beginning to be appreciated. The American Civil War was making the transition from the wars of the past to the wars of the future. In part this was due to the efforts of a single Yankee mechanical genius.
In all, during the War for Southern Independence, the Spencer company delivered 12,472 rifles, including 1003 for the Navy as well as Wilder's and the Massachusetts guns, both of which were diverted to the Federal Ordinance Department. The number of M1860 carbines made by Spencer eventually totaled 45,785. An additional 30,502 M1865 carbines were made by the Burnside company, but deliveries started just at the end of the war, so none were actually in service before the Army of Northern Virginia surrendered. There were a few thousand civilian sales in addition to government deliveries. Many troops took advantage of a government offer and purchased their Spencers when they mustered out at the close of the war
12,500 total rifles is not alot. And still most of those were sent to cav and mounted inf.
Only references to the sharps rifle I can find is as strictly a sharpshooters weapon. Any other info would be welcome.
But we have Sharpshooter units already in the game. A case could be made for having Union SS units have a late war bonus like US cav.
Nial
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As we are looking a small number of units, which I suspected.- should they be modeled as special units at all?
Wilder's brigade appears in the game, as well as the 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters.
Breach loading / repeating carbines are already modeled in the game, modeling these special infantry units would be added chrome.
Wilder's brigade appears in the game, as well as the 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters.
Breach loading / repeating carbines are already modeled in the game, modeling these special infantry units would be added chrome.
Heeward wrote:As we are looking a small number of units, which I suspected.- should they be modeled as special units at all?
Wilder's brigade appears in the game, as well as the 1st and 2nd US Sharpshooters.
Breach loading / repeating carbines are already modeled in the game, modeling these special infantry units would be added chrome.
Agreed.
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