Hardened Attrition

[5_Star]

Another question. In the options I can't find a setting for hardened attrition. Is there a separate option for this, or is this setting in play when you select the harder historical attrition?

[Hobbes]

I would imagine it's the same thing.
Chris

[lodilefty]

Yes, it's the "Main Menu - Options-Game" [color="Red"]"Historical Attrition"[/color]

First choice is "off" - no losses to stationary forces. Replacements per standard rules [Level 2 city or higher, etc.]

Second Choice is "Player only" - human players forces suffer losses even while stationary. Replacements may only be added while at a depot [replacements = adding a completely missing element] Strength is restored to damaged elements normally.

Third Choice is "both" - AI also suffers losses while stationary

AFAIK, These settings have no effect on the losses to Cohesion and Strength when moving.

Hope this helps

[5_Star]

Thanks, probably seemed like a dumb question, just wanted to clarify the issue.

Makes the game even harder offensively (which is tough to begin with). And no more just sitting outside in a zone with a fort/city in it.

Love the game, and Happy Thanksgiving to all. Gobble Gobble.

[Siekster]

Hmm.... somebody help me out here. I always thought one received the same supply/replacement benefits whether they were inside or outside the city/fort. I always keep my main forces outside to prevent being bottled in a siege.. is there a replacement advantage to being inside?

[lodilefty]

Hmm.... somebody help me out here. I always thought one received the same supply/replacement benefits whether they were inside or outside the city/fort. I always keep my main forces outside to prevent being bottled in a siege.. is there a replacement advantage to being inside?

AFAIK, no. They need to be in a region with the required structure...

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Ebbingford]

Playing with historical attrition for player only you loose men even when not moving, even in a region with a structure. Especialy in harsh winter weather. If they are in the structure, according to the manual, then they do not loose men. They go into winter quarters I presume. Was having problems with armies melting away when I thought they should have been gaining strength because they were in a region with a structure, you have to move them into it, and make sure they have enough supply points each turn.

[lodilefty]

Playing with historical attrition for player only you loose men even when not moving, even in a region with a structure. Especialy in harsh winter weather. If they are in the structure, according to the manual, then they do not loose men. They go into winter quarters I presume. Was having problems with armies melting away when I thought they should have been gaining strength because they were in a region with a structure, you have to move them into it, and make sure they have enough supply points each turn.

Thanks for clarifying!
I was focused on replacements, forgot about advanced attrition

[Siekster]

Playing with historical attrition for player only you loose men even when not moving, even in a region with a structure. Especialy in harsh winter weather. If they are in the structure, according to the manual, then they do not loose men. They go into winter quarters I presume. Was having problems with armies melting away when I thought they should have been gaining strength because they were in a region with a structure, you have to move them into it, and make sure they have enough supply points each turn.

Again, somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think the manual is in error in this instance. The message log states when a stack takes damage from foul weather( X's Army took Y number of hts from bad weather). If I have a stack moving in winter weather, or a stack standing in a region w/o a structure in winter weather, I get those messages. I have never gotten one once whiling having an army standing outside a structure in a region with winter weather.

Now, an army can melt away at times if you do not have enough supply in a region due to winter weather. According to lodilefty's stickied supply thread, supply in a region is affected by winter weather, so a region that supports a stack during the spring or fall may not be able to support it in the winter. Such an army would be undersupplied and lose men. Having the men in the structure or not wouldn't make a difference under those circumstances.

[Siekster]

I knew I remembered discussing this before.....

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10073

[lodilefty]

Again, somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I think the manual is in error in this instance. The message log states when a stack takes damage from foul weather( X's Army took Y number of hts from bad weather). If I have a stack moving in winter weather, or a stack standing in a region w/o a structure in winter weather, I get those messages. I have never gotten one once whiling having an army standing outside a structure in a region with winter weather.

Now, an army can melt away at times if you do not have enough supply in a region due to winter weather. According to lodilefty's stickied supply thread, supply in a region is affected by winter weather, so a region that supports a stack during the spring or fall may not be able to support it in the winter. Such an army would be undersupplied and lose men. Having the men in the structure or not wouldn't make a difference under those circumstances.

Well, I'm thouroughly confused now! Easy to do at my age.

AFAIK, under hardened attrition, your forces will lose strength while stationary under any conditions. This is meant to simulate the constant loss of manpower due to illness and desertion....

I dunno if weather affects stationary losses. I can't recall seeing any of that either.

Calling Pocus or Primaspirit: need clarification please

[jhdeerslayer]

Well, I'm thouroughly confused now! Easy to do at my age.

AFAIK, under hardened attrition, your forces will lose strength while stationary under any conditions. This is meant to simulate the constant loss of manpower due to illness and desertion....

I dunno if weather affects stationary losses. I can't recall seeing any of that either.

Calling Pocus or Primaspirit: need clarification please

This ever get clarified? Wondering myself.

[Primasprit]

Sorry, I missed this post.

Under bad weather conditions (harsh or very harsh) the attrition and the loss of cohesion increase. With the historical attrition rule turned on, also if stationary.

You may also check this thread, post #4.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9027

Cheers
Norbert

[Siekster]

I was waiting for a reply as well, although I am quite sure that stationary forces outside a structure do not get affected by weather, although they may be affected by desertion. I have 2 PBEM games going in the 1755 campaign, and I always have forces stationed outside Halifax, summer or winter, to fight off a naval invasion and not be bottled up in a siege, and never have any of those forces suffered losses for weather.

EDIT: Whoops, was writing this while Primaspirit was replying, let me read that thread 1st....

[Primasprit]

[...] I have 2 PBEM games going in the 1755 campaign, and I always have forces stationed outside Halifax, summer or winter, to fight off a naval invasion and not be bottled up in a siege, and never have any of those forces suffered losses for weather.

Yes, because the benefits of the structure outweigh the penalties from the weather effects.

[Siekster]

Outstanding thread you have written there Primaspirit!! I reached the same conclusion after reading it. As usual with this game, I am finding out there is a lot more going on under the hood than I realized!

Thanks!

[auboy]

Yes, because the benefits of the structure outweigh the penalties from the weather effects.

Ok so after reading this whole thread now my question is:

What benefits do you get from actually being in the structure? Is there any reason to actually stay inside a structure? Because I would rather keep my forces outside to keep the enemy from slipping through my lines or beseiging me!

[Primasprit]

Ok so after reading this whole thread now my question is:

What benefits do you get from actually being in the structure? Is there any reason to actually stay inside a structure? [...]

A fort will provide a defensive bonus to the forces inside.

[Siekster]

OK, something that appears a little new along these lines is that ever since the 1.04 patch, forces bottled up under siege are getting affected by bad weather slightly, usually only a hit or 2. It would make sense, seeing how some forces would need to be stationed in the weather to watch for attack.

[Ebbingford]

I think the losses you're seeing might be because there are no replacements being received by the beseiged units. Might be wrong though!
What I wanted to ask though was in the manual it says that units inside a structure do not suffer attrition losses. Is this correct or an error?

[arsan]

I think the losses you're seeing might be because there are no replacements being received by the besieged units. Might be wrong though!
What I wanted to ask though was in the manual it says that units inside a structure do not suffer attrition losses. Is this correct or an error?

With normal attrition rules they shouldn't. In fact, its enough to be on a region with a structure, no need to put the units inside.
With hardened attrition you can loss men even without moving and on a structure (disease, deserters...) . But of course, much less than if you are moving over snow )
Regards

[Siekster]

Yes I know that units were subject to attrition if outside a structure, but I have units inside a structure suffering weather damage when the structure is under siege.... is this WAD?

[lodilefty]

Yes I know that units were subject to attrition if outside a structure, but I have units inside a structure suffering weather damage when the structure is under siege.... is this WAD?

You can look at Cohesion&Attrition.opt in \Settings to see the factors. Severe weather can overcome structure benefits. AFAIK, inside vs. outside structure makes no difference, but Pocus must confirm.

It's the absence of a structure that will hit hard in Severe or harsh weather

[arsan]

Hi Siekster!

I vaguely remembered talking about this before , and using the search function i found a thread i started back in april on the beta forum about this situation regarding AACW (where it can also happen).
The explanation (if i understood Pocus right) is that you can incur on weather attrition hits even inside a structure if you have less than 50% Military control of the region. So it can be very common on a siege.
This "rule" seems to be there mainly to avoid the gamey tactic of campaigning in winter on enemy territory just ending each turn taking a structure on the destination region. Taking also into account Military Control, you will need some time before being able to take shelter against weather on an enemy region with structure.
Regards

[Siekster]

Outstanding!!! As usual, you guys are on top of it!! Thanks!

[FLS]

I'm with Siekster on this one!!!

I had BoA and just received WiA for Christmas (my wife is not happy, but what can you do...? :coeurs and even if the games are very common on some aspects, they differ on others and that makes all the difference!

WIA is a grat game! keep on going!!!