I tried to formulate an Armistice working for the mid' 1813, Germany campaign.
I based it over my limited and uncomplete knowledge of Event kinds and relative syntax.
[color="Red"]Comments and suggestions are here of paramount relevance![/color]
Armistice steps
1. Armistice triggering
Conditions: Objectives control by French sides, VP and/or NM sides comparison & Minimum date are condition triggering the Armistice.
[color="RoyalBlue"]I saw something working as regard with Prussia entering war in 1805 scenario.[/color]
[color="Green"]Germany 1813 campaign peculiarity is the great difference in OOB for the early phase, (April-May), compared to late phase, (August-December).
April-May forces are underpowered with unit ranks depleted.
Historically, during the June-July Armistice most new forces reached the fields and on field forces were re-organized in new Divisions, Corps, Armies.[/color]
2. Moving from April-May to August OOB.
Once the Armistice is triggered active all field Units are removed from Germany Theater. ([color="RoyalBlue"]Kill unit event command[/color])
Garrisons are to be kept on place.
New Units/Forces are then added according to August OOB.
Saxon Betrayal is an example of working event allowing units/forces replacement.
NM and VP for the two sides have to be modified by Armistice triggering event!
[color="Green"]During the Armistice phase we have to prevent opposing side units engaging each other, or their advance in enemy controlled territory.[/color]
3. Added units, (according to August OOB), enter map locked on place, with very low Cohesion, (zero or near to zero), and with reduced health.
They have chance to recover Cohesion & Heath during the Armistice game-turns.
4. Events can modify units cohesion recovery rate, so influencing Armistice lenght.
5. Armistice end
Armistice will end by an event, based over specific Conditions and Actions
5a. Armistice end Conditions:
Check the number of Regular units with Cohesion >80-90 in Germany Theater, (Side French or COA).
At least 50-60 Regular units must have Cohesion >90.
50-60 is hypotetic value: indeed the number is to be based over actual on field Regular units number.
5b. Armistice end Actions:
All on field COA and French units are unlocked, and so free to move.
NOTE: static Garrisons are to be kept locked!
6. Austrian entering war can be managed as an indipendent event, based over French success chances!
It will add flexibility and randomnes to the full campaign!
I suppose we already have commands for build up all events I reported.
Please comment!
Thanks in advace!
JastaV
Set up a DMZ using Blockstate commands
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
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Lafrite wrote:DMZ = Demilitarized zone
Wikipedia is our friend
I picked up as an option the possibility to create a safety area, DMZ, along the Elbe River.
Unfortunately there are some complex factor to manage, including the fact that major fortresses are placed along Elbe River.
We need sieges beeing carried on during Armistice!
Then, having forces locked in place while recovering health and cohesion sounds quite realistic.
Armistice: editing process
I'm entering the editing process:
On map Units/Forces from April OOB will be replaced in place, by August OOB Units: for Corps level Forces Leaders position will be the concentration spot.
That units will be locked in place for the Armistice lengh, added with very low cohesion and depleted ranks, having time during the armistice to recove Health and Cohesion.
On map Units/Forces from April OOB will be replaced in place, by August OOB Units: for Corps level Forces Leaders position will be the concentration spot.
That units will be locked in place for the Armistice lengh, added with very low cohesion and depleted ranks, having time during the armistice to recove Health and Cohesion.
Pocus wrote:problem: health cost replacements
And replacement will be added!
[color="RoyalBlue"]Think of all those Marie-Louise entering French Divisions ranks.......[/color]
During Armistice turns, with units locked in place players will get feel nothing is happening: looking at depleted units recoring helth they will get proof something is going on!
Armistice forces replacement
I completed the forces replacement editing going from April to August OOBs.
That will be a two step process:
1. Forces will be locked in place as soon as Armistice is "signed".
2. Forces will be reorganized as regard corps composition and models used by single units.
In a 3rd step, all "Reinforcement Corps" not present in April and added after the Armistice will then be added during the Armistice weeks.
That will be a two step process:
1. Forces will be locked in place as soon as Armistice is "signed".
2. Forces will be reorganized as regard corps composition and models used by single units.
In a 3rd step, all "Reinforcement Corps" not present in April and added after the Armistice will then be added during the Armistice weeks.
Nikel wrote:Hi jastaV
The truce lasted for around 10 weeks, so 10 game turns. If you finally make it work, what can do the player during these turns?
Try to be a bit positive, please!
Let's say "when you finally make it work......
Well, players will have a mess of chance: watching television, reading a book, going for shopping with wife,.....
Indeed, if you are seeking for a rigid historical approach to the Armistice you should play Prelude to Leipzig, April-June 1813 and then any, (Default or my Hist. Mod) 1813 scenario.
I plan to work a dynamic "what if" grandcampaign, but an historically accurate one.
You know, the Armistice was a conditionated event: a decisive victory from one of two sides in spring or the French occupation of Berlin should had probably wiped out Armistice chances.
It also true the initial lengh term for the armistice, was a matter of few weeks, later extended to a couple of months.
I'm not able to anticipate details, because I do not know them: it's work in progress, conditioned by editing attempts.
Nikel wrote:And another question. Have you found a picture for the armistice event? I have been searching for a Armistice of Pleischwitz picture, without luck
I did not go after graphic detail for events yet.
BTW, suggestion or links to pictures or other will be apreciated.
Thanks for questioning!
JastaV
I am positive, and absolutely sure you will manage to get it work, one way or another 
I see a problem with reading a book, watching TV,... who will click the next turn button then?
In fact I have played your "Prelude..." a pair of times with the french. One decisive victory and one victory by points. Then to make your full 1813 campaign better you should increase the NM points, 150 is low, ar least from the french side, not played with the coalition.
About the picture, no luck, it seems that this truce was not very important for painters, gravers,... Who signed this truce?
I see a problem with reading a book, watching TV,... who will click the next turn button then?
In fact I have played your "Prelude..." a pair of times with the french. One decisive victory and one victory by points. Then to make your full 1813 campaign better you should increase the NM points, 150 is low, ar least from the french side, not played with the coalition.
About the picture, no luck, it seems that this truce was not very important for painters, gravers,... Who signed this truce?
Nikel wrote:I am positive, and absolutely sure you will manage to get it work, one way or another
I see a problem with reading a book, watching TV,... who will click the next turn button then?
In fact I have played your "Prelude..." a pair of times with the french. One decisive victory and one victory by points. Then to make your full 1813 campaign better you should increase the NM points, 150 is low, ar least from the french side, not played with the coalition.
About the picture, no luck, it seems that this truce was not very important for painters, gravers,... Who signed this truce?
Thank you very much for suggestions as regard "Prelude" scenario balancing.
Hope you'll try it from COA side too.
As regard armistice I know Metternich was the promoter behind it!
Indeed I doubt painters went after the Armistice in so the diplomatic attempt wasa complete failure, obscured by Leipzid and Dresden battles.
Some notes ovet the Armistice from D.G. Chandler's The Campaigns of Napoleon.
2th June: Napoleons mentioned the possibility of an armistice or truce in a letter to Gen. Clark.
Indeed the armistice was signed that day.
The natural conclusion for armistice was set to July end, (24th July ?) but later posponed to 16th August, by Metternich initiative.
Indeed 19th July Austria signed a secret alliance with Coalition.
12th August Austria declared war to France, 14th August, Blucher moved against French forces nearby Bleslaw.
2th June: Napoleons mentioned the possibility of an armistice or truce in a letter to Gen. Clark.
Indeed the armistice was signed that day.
The natural conclusion for armistice was set to July end, (24th July ?) but later posponed to 16th August, by Metternich initiative.
Indeed 19th July Austria signed a secret alliance with Coalition.
12th August Austria declared war to France, 14th August, Blucher moved against French forces nearby Bleslaw.
More information
Armistice of 1813 (2 June 1813)
The spring campaign of 1813 ended on a very uncharacteristic note for Napoleon: a negotiated armistice with the representatives of Austria and Russia at Pleischwitz on 4 June. After the campaign the main Russian and Prussian armies were bruised but unbroken. Nevertheless, Napoleon had rebounded in the spring and had reestablished his reputation through his victories at Lützen (2 May) and Bautzen (21–22 May). However, Napoleon’s army was as damaged physically by these victories as were the Allies, and his huge losses in Russia the previous year had reduced his cavalry to near impotence in its most important function: the pursuit of beaten enemies after tactical victories in the field.
The terms of the armistice, signed on 2 June, were as follows: It would last for six weeks (to 20 July) and included an option by either side for its extension (though the Allies would have to agree together on this point) and provisions for Austrian mediation toward a lasting peace. Eventually the armistice was extended for the remainder of the summer to 10 August, but hostilities did not resume until 15 August. Napoleon retired his forces across the Bober River but remained the master of Saxony and held key positions inside Prussia and along the Elbe as well. Significantly, large French garrisons at Danzig and along the Oder River remained cut off and under siege.
A question must therefore remain as to why Napoleon agreed to the armistice. His reasons were both military and political: Not only had he lost his cavalry, but his logistics had collapsed and his army was slowly melting as his starving, young, inexperienced conscripts straggled away. In addition, Cossacks and Prussian irregulars bedeviled French lines of communication back through Germany—one particularly audacious band had actually captured Leipzig on the eve of the armistice. Politically, given Austria’s increasingly hostile attitude and threats of armed mediation, Napoleon felt he had no choice but to accept. As a result he also agreed to a cessation of hostilities to prevent adding the considerable military might of Austria to that of his opponents.
For the exhausted Russians and Prussians the armistice was a godsend. Their armies were in a strategic cul-de-sac in Silesia, and another hard blow would have caused the Russians to abandon the Prussians and retreat to the north and away from their allies. Austria too was relieved at Napoleon’s decision because it was not ready to mobilize and deploy significant military force. Had Napoleon remained on the offensive, there was very little that the cautious Austrians could have done to interfere with Napoleon in Silesia. That said, Napoleon knew little of these matters, and his army and marshals also agreed with his decision. The Allies also benefited financially: on 15 June, Russia and Prussia each received £2 million in subsidies from Britain, and Austria was offered £500,000 as an inducement to join the coalition.
In hindsight, most experts agree that this armistice was a strategic mistake for Napoleon. Austria, which had by the Convention of Reichenbach on 19 July agreed to join the Allies if Napoleon refused Vienna’s terms as mediator, formally did so on 12 August——followed shortly by Sweden, which had provisionally offered support on 7 July. The long period served the Allies far better than it did Napoleon, for the British landed huge amounts of supplies and arms in northern Europe via the Baltic ports. Moreover, the Allies gathered in July at Trachenberg and crafted an attritional strategy that would ultimately counter Napoleon’s generalship by avoiding battle with him and beating his subordinates. The armistice of 1813 is another indicator that Napoleon was no longer the adept political strategist that he had been in his heyday at Leoben (1797) and Tilsit (1807). At the beginning of the armistice Napoleon was on the verge of total victory and outnumbered his foes; at the end the Allies were twice as strong as he, well rested, and united in their purpose to eject him once and for all from Germany.
Perhaps during the armistice the player could choose the position of his old and new troops as they appear, moving them for the second part of the campaign.
You could add a fleet for the coalition, deploying troops where the player wants, not in the french rearguard though . Can this be done?
Armistice of 1813 (2 June 1813)
The spring campaign of 1813 ended on a very uncharacteristic note for Napoleon: a negotiated armistice with the representatives of Austria and Russia at Pleischwitz on 4 June. After the campaign the main Russian and Prussian armies were bruised but unbroken. Nevertheless, Napoleon had rebounded in the spring and had reestablished his reputation through his victories at Lützen (2 May) and Bautzen (21–22 May). However, Napoleon’s army was as damaged physically by these victories as were the Allies, and his huge losses in Russia the previous year had reduced his cavalry to near impotence in its most important function: the pursuit of beaten enemies after tactical victories in the field.
The terms of the armistice, signed on 2 June, were as follows: It would last for six weeks (to 20 July) and included an option by either side for its extension (though the Allies would have to agree together on this point) and provisions for Austrian mediation toward a lasting peace. Eventually the armistice was extended for the remainder of the summer to 10 August, but hostilities did not resume until 15 August. Napoleon retired his forces across the Bober River but remained the master of Saxony and held key positions inside Prussia and along the Elbe as well. Significantly, large French garrisons at Danzig and along the Oder River remained cut off and under siege.
A question must therefore remain as to why Napoleon agreed to the armistice. His reasons were both military and political: Not only had he lost his cavalry, but his logistics had collapsed and his army was slowly melting as his starving, young, inexperienced conscripts straggled away. In addition, Cossacks and Prussian irregulars bedeviled French lines of communication back through Germany—one particularly audacious band had actually captured Leipzig on the eve of the armistice. Politically, given Austria’s increasingly hostile attitude and threats of armed mediation, Napoleon felt he had no choice but to accept. As a result he also agreed to a cessation of hostilities to prevent adding the considerable military might of Austria to that of his opponents.
For the exhausted Russians and Prussians the armistice was a godsend. Their armies were in a strategic cul-de-sac in Silesia, and another hard blow would have caused the Russians to abandon the Prussians and retreat to the north and away from their allies. Austria too was relieved at Napoleon’s decision because it was not ready to mobilize and deploy significant military force. Had Napoleon remained on the offensive, there was very little that the cautious Austrians could have done to interfere with Napoleon in Silesia. That said, Napoleon knew little of these matters, and his army and marshals also agreed with his decision. The Allies also benefited financially: on 15 June, Russia and Prussia each received £2 million in subsidies from Britain, and Austria was offered £500,000 as an inducement to join the coalition.
In hindsight, most experts agree that this armistice was a strategic mistake for Napoleon. Austria, which had by the Convention of Reichenbach on 19 July agreed to join the Allies if Napoleon refused Vienna’s terms as mediator, formally did so on 12 August——followed shortly by Sweden, which had provisionally offered support on 7 July. The long period served the Allies far better than it did Napoleon, for the British landed huge amounts of supplies and arms in northern Europe via the Baltic ports. Moreover, the Allies gathered in July at Trachenberg and crafted an attritional strategy that would ultimately counter Napoleon’s generalship by avoiding battle with him and beating his subordinates. The armistice of 1813 is another indicator that Napoleon was no longer the adept political strategist that he had been in his heyday at Leoben (1797) and Tilsit (1807). At the beginning of the armistice Napoleon was on the verge of total victory and outnumbered his foes; at the end the Allies were twice as strong as he, well rested, and united in their purpose to eject him once and for all from Germany.
Perhaps during the armistice the player could choose the position of his old and new troops as they appear, moving them for the second part of the campaign.
You could add a fleet for the coalition, deploying troops where the player wants, not in the french rearguard though
. Can this be done?Nikel wrote:More information
Perhaps during the armistice the player could choose the position of his old and new troops as they appear, moving them for the second part of the campaign.
You could add a fleet for the coalition, deploying troops where the player wants, not in the french rearguard though
I thank you for reported informations: they confirm mine, as regard dates!
To respond to your quesit, it seems like NCP engine does not allow to separate units movement from engagement.
So, if you allow troops movement you cannot prevent AI from moving units in enemy territory or to engage the enemy.
BTW, I discharged region "Block state" options, for low flexibility reasons.
Now, the armistice will work this way:
1. units will be locked in place as soon as armistice is signed.
2. Armies HQ will be redeployed, (next turn).
3. Corps will be redeployed too, (along more turns).
When A Corps is redeployed it will be attached to an Army HQ based over proximity rule: that to say it will be attached to nearest Army HQ.
[color="RoyalBlue"]Till to be verified in detail![/color]
4. Corps, (and sometimes Armies), redeployement will be a flexible process.
If Coalition controls Berlin at armistice start, Corps from Bernadotte's Army of the North will be placed in Berlin and nearby regions. Should French side control Berlin, Bernadotte's Army of the North will be placed elsewhere.....
In the same way, French Army of Berlin will be placed to move from nearest to Berlin French controlled region at Armistice end, or will occupy Berlin if the town should be French controlled at Armistice sign turn.
5. With most scaled up optios for forces redeployement I'll try to grant both game variability both strategic accuracy: forces will be deployed according to the best available option, compatible with friendly controlled regions.
6. Although the positions of armies will be modified by troops redeployement, regions and objectives controlled at Armistice signing turn, will influence forces redeployement and also, may be, armistice terms and political/military options.
7. The forces redeployement will be a complex factor, influencing but Corps/Armies positioning their composition: at that time formations will be reorganized so to advance from "April OOB" to "August OOB".
Corps composition will be changed as regard Divisions attached to Corps, regiments forming divisions and leaders in command of major and minor units.
8. Corps/Armies reorganizations and redeployement will be a disruptive event lowering troops cohesion.
Aslo, most reorganized forces will "enter" their redeployement region with depleted ranks, having then to recovel full strengh by receiving replacements during the Armistice turns.
BTW, replacements could be available to player by selectable military options, while other options could influence units cohesion.
So player will have things to go after during the armistice turns too!
9. At best, armistice end will be a flexible event too, with many factors possibly influencing it.
10. I'm also evaluating possibilities to influence Austrian policy.
If so, Austrian neutrality or its decision to joint the Coalition, will be influenced by Spring Campaign outcome, (French occupation of Berlin being the major factor) and by player available options: players could have choice to commit resources to buy replacents for replenishing troops ranks or to expend them to "buy" Austrian Neutrality, (French side) or Austrian active alliance, (Coalition side).
11. Logistical support is of paramount importance for operations.
May be I'll give player the control over depots building: player will have to decide where to built major depots in preparation for summer campaign.
Please note the editing process is far to be completed: suggestions could modify it. Indeed I'm introducing changes any day, on my own, based over improvements in the knowledge of AGEod codes and other modders/editors suggestions.
It's also true, I'll probably develop a first basic version of the campaign to be improved later, so some of reported issues could not be enabled at first time.
Good job jastaV, sounds complex indeed. Will you consider adding a batic british fleet, as suggested with the text above? Perhaps only bringing supplies?
Some screenshoots from the two prelude to Leipzig campaigns played with the french
First was a mayor victory with 1 turn left. The strategy was this, In the north hold the position with the Armee de l'Elbe and take Hamburg with new troops (Davout). With the Grande Armee, advance and take the southern objectives, Leipzig, Dresden,... Napoleon was successful and then advanced north to Magdeburg, the final blow was to take Berlin, that provided the decisive victory. The second screenshot is the final disposition of troops, as you can see there are still major coalition armies in the ground, the casualties were low on both sides
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Some screenshoots from the two prelude to Leipzig campaigns played with the french
First was a mayor victory with 1 turn left. The strategy was this, In the north hold the position with the Armee de l'Elbe and take Hamburg with new troops (Davout). With the Grande Armee, advance and take the southern objectives, Leipzig, Dresden,... Napoleon was successful and then advanced north to Magdeburg, the final blow was to take Berlin, that provided the decisive victory. The second screenshot is the final disposition of troops, as you can see there are still major coalition armies in the ground, the casualties were low on both sides
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[ATTACH]4465[/ATTACH]
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The second one was not as good, won by victory points, and not a huge difference. My strategy was the same, but in this case Napoleon southern campaign was not succesful trying to take fortress when they were heavily defended. In fact was Viceroy Eugene who won the campaign in the north been more active, but no time to take Berlin as he started the campaign too late, when Napoleon was suffering. You can see in the screenshot that at the end of the campsign Napoleon is still stuck in Dresden. The losses were high and I lodt more troops, mainly in the south
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To Nikel:
thank you for reporting in detail.
Like the way first campaign gone, but I could improve balancing working over factors influencing capitalized NM points.
I'm worried by second campaign outcome: French control of Dresden and Leipzig are conditions triggering the Armistice.
Probably I'll have to rework Bernadotte Force unlocking conditions: historically his army was till in formation at Stralsund during the Spring 1813.
Unfortunately locking Bernadotte will increase French advantege even more.
[color="SandyBrown"]I'm testing the flexible redeployement of forces during armistice: just positive findings to report, till now.[/color]
thank you for reporting in detail.
Like the way first campaign gone, but I could improve balancing working over factors influencing capitalized NM points.
I'm worried by second campaign outcome: French control of Dresden and Leipzig are conditions triggering the Armistice.
Probably I'll have to rework Bernadotte Force unlocking conditions: historically his army was till in formation at Stralsund during the Spring 1813.
Unfortunately locking Bernadotte will increase French advantege even more.
[color="SandyBrown"]I'm testing the flexible redeployement of forces during armistice: just positive findings to report, till now.[/color]
Leipzig prelude ver 5.06
Well, I have been the first one to try ver 5.06!
Although I added some command to balance the game, as a French player I easely had reason over COA forces: I occupied most objectives and gained a major victory by sudden death entering Berlin!
Indeed, the OOB is unbalanced in favor of French side!
It's to be evidenced that weather conditions can pay a great part: persistent mud weather can slow down French forces movement, so saving Berlin from capture.
To give AI some more advantage It could be worth to try different game settings.
I'm always going after my classic settings:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9741
Although I added some command to balance the game, as a French player I easely had reason over COA forces: I occupied most objectives and gained a major victory by sudden death entering Berlin!
Indeed, the OOB is unbalanced in favor of French side!
It's to be evidenced that weather conditions can pay a great part: persistent mud weather can slow down French forces movement, so saving Berlin from capture.
To give AI some more advantage It could be worth to try different game settings.
I'm always going after my classic settings:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9741
Nikel wrote:Still think that you should increase NM victory points, perhaps to 200.
You can take Berlin, but no sudden victory got, then you can proceed with the armistice and the second part of the campaign. French having an advantage in the first part of the campaign is historical, I think
Looking to Prelude to Leipzig, as the first stone of a major building, (the 1813 Grandcampaign), I'll not change the max. NM value.
I'll increase it, (max. NM value), after the armistice when victory conditions and objectives will change.
I'll look for good solution for the Grandcampaign, I hope, so to have Armistice triggeried before French entering Berlin.
.......I will not anticipate details or I'll waste your fun when playing the campaign.
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