I found this article very interesting about how the cost of implementing DX10 could ultimately kill PC gaming as we now know it.
Some quotes from the article:
"Mark Rein from Epic Games, who was in charge of the development team on Unreal Engine 3, as well as being responsible for the creation of titles like Unreal Tournament 3 and Gears of War has pointed out the cost problems of developing DX10 games. The price of a higher end DX10 compatible PC graphics card does not compare favourably to the price of a console, in some extreme cases you will pay double the amount for a graphics card than you would for a console."
"id Software has declared the same outcome. The PC will become second fiddle to the console; their programmers will focus on developing games primarily for the console and then port them to the PC (maybe). They are so convinced that this is the way to go that they have attached Xbox 360 controllers to every single PC at id, to get their programmers in the console mindset. This move reflects their new philosophy; where once they focused on pushing graphics cards to the utmost limit, now they will focus on gameplay, and ensuring the games will run on any system, not just high end systems."
"Making a game that is playable on the console requires sacrifices to be made on the PC version, as no company can afford to design every part of the game twice, once for the console and once for the PC. It makes economic sense to develop as much code as possible in tandem, so that it works on both systems, with a bit of time at the end to see if any extras can be added to the PC version."
"Another likely casualty of porting to PC was Oblivion's A.I, named Radiant AI. While Bethesda was having problems with certain Non-Player Character interactions, one can't help but wonder if the AI was lobotomized to make it play well on the Xbox 360."
PC Gaming: Why I'll Never Console Myself with Second Best
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WallysWorld
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Chickamauga Chuck
- Civilian
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I doubt it.
I am sorry, but I cannot agree with the inital post.
I have a pure DirectX 10 and MS Vista system and AACW runs magnificently. Sorry, but there just don't have anything to complain about.
I have a pure DirectX 10 and MS Vista system and AACW runs magnificently. Sorry, but there just don't have anything to complain about.
This excerpt from the article gives me more hope than reasons to worry... 
"...This move reflects their new philosophy; where once they focused on pushing graphics cards to the utmost limit, now they will focus on gameplay, and ensuring the games will run on any system, not just high end systems"
If this is the future trend of PC gaming... then Welcome DX10 !!!!!!!
What i dont understand is how that statement can be seen as something negative wich means the death of PC gaming
Cheers!
"...This move reflects their new philosophy; where once they focused on pushing graphics cards to the utmost limit, now they will focus on gameplay, and ensuring the games will run on any system, not just high end systems"
If this is the future trend of PC gaming... then Welcome DX10 !!!!!!!
What i dont understand is how that statement can be seen as something negative wich means the death of PC gaming
Cheers!
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Franciscus
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arsan wrote:This excerpt from the article gives me more hope than reasons to worry...
"...This move reflects their new philosophy; where once they focused on pushing graphics cards to the utmost limit, now they will focus on gameplay, and ensuring the games will run on any system, not just high end systems"
If this is the future trend of PC gaming... then Welcome DX10 !!!!!!!
What i dont understand is how that statement can be seen as something negative wich means the death of PC gaming
Cheers!
I would agree with you, my dear iberian friend, but unfortunately, when they talk about any system they mean any "stupid" console and a poor PC, and when they talk about gameplay they are not talking about what is cherished by you and me, but rather the kind of gameplay that was defined 20 years or more ago with Super Mario Brothers... (by this do not get me wrong - I still can enjoy for a few minutes a good platformer on my children's WII virtual console
)Agreed. More emphasis on glorified eye-candy will abound. Expectations for true strategy games (I don't call what passes on PC game sites as 'strategy' to be strategy) will elevate, meaning (as Pocus says) more emphasis on graphics and less available time for coding things that are truly important, such as AI and game mechanics.
Maybe I am being idealistic or foolish, but I think that the law of supply and demand will prevent any premature death of quality PC "game" products, DX10 or not. My wife and I are in complete agreement that we would willingly pay twice the current market price for a "game" of such quality as AACW. ("Game"...? I think it is better called a simulation. This is not a product for children. It is unquestionably the finest Civil War simulation ever released, to my knowledge. It is a classic, and I somehow suspect that 10 years from now, there will be diehards who are still playing it.)
There is an Airline Business simulation which we own which costs literally twice the amount that Havely paid for AACW. I should add that the Airline Business simulation is embarrassingly "buggy", to an extent that verges upon ludicrous. And yet, the simulation has a fairly large fan base. Part of that upfront cost is to cover a "subscription" to updates. I am not suggesting that AGEOD change their business model; but I mention this only as an example of how people are willing to pay a premium for a product that "they just gotta have".
There is an Airline Business simulation which we own which costs literally twice the amount that Havely paid for AACW. I should add that the Airline Business simulation is embarrassingly "buggy", to an extent that verges upon ludicrous. And yet, the simulation has a fairly large fan base. Part of that upfront cost is to cover a "subscription" to updates. I am not suggesting that AGEOD change their business model; but I mention this only as an example of how people are willing to pay a premium for a product that "they just gotta have".
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Gray_Lensman
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Two things are true!
1. Time ago, I saw few new games released with a Vista only logo!
It was a flop: soon later they were released as Windows game supporting both Vista both XP.
2. Top score games designed to be market leaders for years, (see as regard Il-2), conditioned Vista success in the gamers community.
As a member of Il-2 Community I noticed more posts from users having tried Vista to return back to XP as soon as disappointed with Vista bugs.
DX10 is a Vista affair!
[SIZE="2"]Most serius gamers till trust old XP![/size]
As far as DX10 will be available for Vista only, it could have only a marginal impact on gamers community.
The other thing to consider is DX10 impact over Hardware.
My friends tried most recent high graphic titles,(RPG and Shoot Them up games) with DX10 against DX9 on their PC.
Although DX10 was offering improvements in graphic quality the prize to pay for in term of Frame Rate was too high: they all returmed back to DX9 when gaming.
DX10 needs top hardware solutions, very, very expensive: and may be even most powerfull, last generation GPUs and CPUs are not performing very high in FR terms.
At that point, if you have to downgrade graphic setting to gain a playable FR with DX10 the job is no more worth: better to stay with DX9!
1. Time ago, I saw few new games released with a Vista only logo!
It was a flop: soon later they were released as Windows game supporting both Vista both XP.
2. Top score games designed to be market leaders for years, (see as regard Il-2), conditioned Vista success in the gamers community.
As a member of Il-2 Community I noticed more posts from users having tried Vista to return back to XP as soon as disappointed with Vista bugs.
DX10 is a Vista affair!
[SIZE="2"]Most serius gamers till trust old XP![/size]
As far as DX10 will be available for Vista only, it could have only a marginal impact on gamers community.
The other thing to consider is DX10 impact over Hardware.
My friends tried most recent high graphic titles,(RPG and Shoot Them up games) with DX10 against DX9 on their PC.
Although DX10 was offering improvements in graphic quality the prize to pay for in term of Frame Rate was too high: they all returmed back to DX9 when gaming.
DX10 needs top hardware solutions, very, very expensive: and may be even most powerfull, last generation GPUs and CPUs are not performing very high in FR terms.
At that point, if you have to downgrade graphic setting to gain a playable FR with DX10 the job is no more worth: better to stay with DX9!
jastaV wrote:Two things are true!
1. Time ago, I saw few new games released with a Vista only logo!
It was a flop: soon later they were released as Windows game supporting both Vista both XP.
2. Top score games designed to be market leaders for years, (see as regard Il-2), conditioned Vista success in the gamers community.
As a member of Il-2 Community I noticed more posts from users having tried Vista to return back to XP as soon as disappointed with Vista bugs.
DX10 is a Vista affair!
[SIZE="2"]Most serius gamers till trust old XP![/size]
As far as DX10 will be available for Vista only, it could have only a marginal impact on gamers community.
The other thing to consider is DX10 impact over Hardware.
My friends tried most recent high graphic titles,(RPG and Shoot Them up games) with DX10 against DX9 on their PC.
Although DX10 was offering improvements in graphic quality the prize to pay for in term of Frame Rate was too high: they all returmed back to DX9 when gaming.
DX10 needs top hardware solutions, very, very expensive: and may be even most powerfull, last generation GPUs and CPUs are not performing very high in FR terms.
At that point, if you have to downgrade graphic setting to gain a playable FR with DX10 the job is no more worth: better to stay with DX9!
Vista is OK.
- I'm a serious gamer. Serious as in turn based strategy. If it's real time, I avoid it.
- My 'top end PC' cost less than $700. Handles everything AGEOD can throw at it
- I've installed DX9 also = adds compatibility.
The point is: specify and buy a system for your use, not 'what everybody' says.
I don't install in "Program Files" = my saves don't get lost
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
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lodilefty wrote:Vista is OK.The point is: specify and buy a system for your use, not 'what everybody' says.
- I'm a serious gamer. Serious as in turn based strategy. If it's real time, I avoid it.
- My 'top end PC' cost less than $700. Handles everything AGEOD can throw at it
- I've installed DX9 also = adds compatibility.
I don't install in "Program Files" = my saves don't get lost
You are not a serious gamer if only your GPU processor cost less than $700!!!
Indeed, I'm confident with flight sim world where any new program is a PC killer!
"Rise of Flight" was announced as nex generation game for flight simmers, in past days!
It's a WWI planes simulator!
[color="Blue"]Minimal system requirements
Platform: PC
Processor: CoreDuo (Intel) 2.4 Ghz
RAM : 2Gb
Hard drive: 4Gb
Videocard: 256Mb onboard memory (NVidia GeForce 8600 series or higher)
Internet: speed at least 256 kb/s
Operation system: Windows XP/Vista[/color]
Although I'm using a NVidia GeForce 8800Ultra, I already know I'll have to upgrade my PC, when going after Rise of Flight!
That with great happiness from my favourite PC-Store!
jastaV wrote:You are not a serious gamer if only your GPU processor cost less than $700!!!
Given the stuff that has entered the world via Lodilefty's computer to the benefit of WIA and AGEOD gamers, I'd say that he is more than qualified to call himself a "serious gamer" no matter what.
OTOH, the ones who decide "seriousness" solely on the grounds of the price of someone's GPU are the ones who get pegged as "unserious" in my book
Rafiki wrote:Given the stuff that has entered the world via Lodilefty's computer to the benefit of WIA and AGEOD gamers, I'd say that he is more than qualified to call himself a "serious gamer" no matter what.
OTOH, the ones who decide "seriousness" solely on the grounds of the price of someone's GPU are the ones who get pegged as "unserious" in my book
[color="RoyalBlue"]Given the stuff that has entered the world via Lodilefty's computer to the benefit of WIA and AGEOD gamers, ..........[/color]
That qualifies Lodilefty as a talented, experienced game tester, modder and editor!
Usually, testers, modders and editors are not serious gamers, in so far they dedicate most of their time to games improvement and development, rather than gaming!
It's the same great difference we have between people going after intensive sport practice against people spending their days watching Sport on TV!
[color="RoyalBlue"]OTOH, the ones who decide "seriousness" solely on the grounds of the price of someone's GPU are the ones who get pegged as "unserious" in my book[/color]
A serious way to enter PC gaming world is to experiment you with different game types: Strategy games, RTS, RPG, Simulation, Shoot the' up.
As you know, some game types need GPU horsepower to move detailed graphic effects changing in real time or they need CPU horsepower to go after complex real time calculations......
I'm a flight simmer, (but a Strategy game enthusiast), so I need both a good CPU as a powerful GPU!
JastaV
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Coregonas
- AGEod Guard of Honor
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PC game killed?
some years ago, 2 kind of fans were abroad
a) football (...NBA and so on) fans (49,99%) and TV series (49,99%)
b) chess (board games and so on) fans (1% ?)
Some people on group b) are also fans of selected a) products
As now it is, there are 80-100.000 fans every 2 weeks, (ONLY in my city football city sports match) surely a similar quantity in all cities around the world.
Im absolutely sure no 100.000 wargamers at home.
40 years later... computer industry has evolved -> and... as always has been
a) 99% of the "young" people goes on playing the Nintendo / Console "hit and run" styke games
b) 1% gets fun with "hard" games such as these...
And life goes on as always has been.
a) football (...NBA and so on) fans (49,99%) and TV series (49,99%)
b) chess (board games and so on) fans (1% ?)
Some people on group b) are also fans of selected a) products
As now it is, there are 80-100.000 fans every 2 weeks, (ONLY in my city football city sports match) surely a similar quantity in all cities around the world.
Im absolutely sure no 100.000 wargamers at home.
40 years later... computer industry has evolved -> and... as always has been
a) 99% of the "young" people goes on playing the Nintendo / Console "hit and run" styke games
b) 1% gets fun with "hard" games such as these...
And life goes on as always has been.
Coregonas wrote:
b) 1% gets fun with "hard" games such as these...
1% gets fun with [color="Red"]Great [/color]games such as these...
It's the same in all subjects!
Think of movie industry: people like spectacular, funny films produced by the industry, masterships worked by great directora are an affair for few spectators!
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