Inflation is only a simple measure to slow things down when we pass custom scripts. It doesn't matter if it comes from loans, gifts, purchases or services... as long as so much capital flows into a state's coffers at once, we need to abstract an anti-abuse criterion. If you think it is too big, then we can make the buy paid in rates every 3-4 months with smaller inflation increases that could be easier absorbed (since inflation tends to go down through decisions or sound economic policies).
If you remember from the templates for loans: we had said 1% for every 200 of private capital or 250 of state funds. But where did Citizen X disagree, I missed that.
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If he does not agree to the money transfer (doesn't want the inflation), how do I pay for the island that I already have? Or do I just not pay for it? The red event transferred it to me. I now own it. Should we go to war for 1 turn so he can capture it back? That seems completely gamey. Plus how does he know that I won't stab him in the back for his trouble, and capture the colony of Jerusalem for example? (not that I am that type of player, but I believe that some of the former players of Britain would do that).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Kensai wrote:Inflation is only a simple measure to slow things down when we pass custom scripts. It doesn't matter if it comes from loans, gifts, purchases or services... as long as so much capital flows into a state's coffers at once, we need to abstract an anti-abuse criterion. If you think it is too big, then we can make the buy paid in rates every 3-4 months with smaller inflation increases that could be easier absorbed (since inflation tends to go down through decisions or sound economic policies).
If you remember from the templates for loans: we had said 1% for every 200 of private capital or 250 of state funds. But where did Citizen X disagree, I missed that.
Actually I overread that part. How should I know after all that that particular line was meant as Inflation? That would mean, that there is going to be an inflation for the selling of Tripolis, too?
"I am here already.", said the hedgehog to the hare.
OK, I am simply stating my opinion here, so bear with me. If I understood the situation correctly you somehow want to pay for what you got through a red event. There are two potential solutions:
1) play along as if nothing happens, red events are history and we accept them as they come, you should be thankful or play along (as Japan did with Russia when the Treaty of Saint Petersurg happened which actually enforced what we had agreed ourselves out of the game)
2) do it as we've always done (on my watch, at least) with the templates for money/capital transactions that include inflation... why is inflation so terrible? usually it goes down pretty fast through sunrise events when economy is good... if you fear it chop the transaction in many rates that will spread the increase of inflation over several months or years OR decrease the amount of money exchanged
Guys, there has to be anti-abuse mechanism for every transaction we do. Otherwise it is just too easy to script (or ask for scripts) all the time for stuff that circumvent the engine and the inherent trade system. Are you planning for the sale of Tripoli? Is it a colony right? If the respective nations have agreed then as long as you play along ("make a story in diplomacy" to explain the exchange) and we factor in the deal (including diplos, little NM, and the money agreed) I don't think anyone would disagree.
If we don't place some checks here the game will be played mainly by strikes of scripts...
//
Still waiting if coolbean has or has 2 transport ship slots for the transfer of the Swedish sale to USA (through China). In the meantime, here's the first part of the script. Jonathan, you must NOT have other ships in Zhanjiang apart from the ships the script will transfer.
1) play along as if nothing happens, red events are history and we accept them as they come, you should be thankful or play along (as Japan did with Russia when the Treaty of Saint Petersurg happened which actually enforced what we had agreed ourselves out of the game)
2) do it as we've always done (on my watch, at least) with the templates for money/capital transactions that include inflation... why is inflation so terrible? usually it goes down pretty fast through sunrise events when economy is good... if you fear it chop the transaction in many rates that will spread the increase of inflation over several months or years OR decrease the amount of money exchanged
Guys, there has to be anti-abuse mechanism for every transaction we do. Otherwise it is just too easy to script (or ask for scripts) all the time for stuff that circumvent the engine and the inherent trade system. Are you planning for the sale of Tripoli? Is it a colony right? If the respective nations have agreed then as long as you play along ("make a story in diplomacy" to explain the exchange) and we factor in the deal (including diplos, little NM, and the money agreed) I don't think anyone would disagree.
If we don't place some checks here the game will be played mainly by strikes of scripts...
//
Still waiting if coolbean has or has 2 transport ship slots for the transfer of the Swedish sale to USA (through China). In the meantime, here's the first part of the script. Jonathan, you must NOT have other ships in Zhanjiang apart from the ships the script will transfer.
Code: Select all
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Zhanjiang
StartEvent = Despawning wrong models of China (1878)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Zhanjiang|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $CHI
SelectRegion = $Zhanjiang
SelectSubUnits = Region $Zhanjiang;Domains $Naval
AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;KillCare to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
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Your calculations are wrong, anyway, as you wish. 
(people have overestimated the effect of inflation in the past, look for old discussions of ours in the Paradox forums)
(people have overestimated the effect of inflation in the past, look for old discussions of ours in the Paradox forums)
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Jonathan Pollard
- Major
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Kensai wrote:If coolbean can confirm that he has two free slots for transport ships and Boernes is ok with that sale, why not.
Prepare the script if you like.
Coolbean doesn't think he has the free slots for transport ships in his pool. So I'm willing to auction off those transport ships to the highest bidder in terms of warships that won't be auto-upgraded by China. I'm willing to add state and/or private capital as part of the deal.
"Two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge...the FBI...says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." Dan Rather of CBS News, 9/11/2001
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Sir Garnet
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:23 pm
Jonathan Pollard wrote:Coolbean doesn't think he has the free slots for transport ships in his pool. So I'm willing to auction off those transport ships to the highest bidder in terms of warships that won't be auto-upgraded by China. I'm willing to add state and/or private capital as part of the deal.
The question is what warships would not be auto-upgraded? Wooden ships don't auto-upgrade at all so far as I've seen. Wooden Screw auto-upgrade to Ironclad if available, and Ironclad Corvettes to Light Cruisers (the ICorvettes are no longer buildable), although Ironclad Warships (Battleships) don't auto-upgrade to Steel if the Ironclads are still buildable. So what is buildable by China seems relevant to the auto-upgrade.
P.S. I'll ask Pocus if he can provide guidance on the AlterCuSubUnit syntax.
Kensai wrote:Your calculations are wrong, anyway, as you wish.
(people have overestimated the effect of inflation in the past, look for old discussions of ours in the Paradox forums)
No calculation, just a rough estimate. I am right, that inflation mainly raises the price of buildings? And I am right, too, that I can expect a reduction rate like in SP? Then this hits a country with a huge building programm very hard, where a country that is all set has rather no effect at all.
This is no argueing against or about the mechanism. I totally understand why it is there.
But my estimate, in regard of the special situation the Ottoman Empire is in, stays right. I experienced an inflation reduction of at most 1% a year in SP. Let's say the average building costs are 1000 and I want to buy one every month to a maximum 60 then thats five years of buzilding at 18, 17, 16, 15, 14 percent of "interest". Making up for an "interest" of 9600. Or I pay 1400 in cash for two inflation reductions and go with a progression of 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, still summing up to 3600+1400= 5000. Now count in a few months of earlier production for 3,5 facilities against the complete loss of a a potential vineyard for the rest of the game. Thus any deal that has money involved is practically a cashkiller for a country that's building up
Am I missing something?
"I am here already.", said the hedgehog to the hare.
Kensai wrote:
2) do it as we've always done (on my watch, at least) with the templates for money/capital transactions that include inflation... why is inflation so terrible? usually it goes down pretty fast through sunrise events when economy is good... if you fear it chop the transaction in many rates that will spread the increase of inflation over several months or years OR decrease the amount of money exchanged
I don't recall inflation for purchases of land or equipment. Giving loans or monetary help, yes, but not purchases. If we want to start now, the rate should be low, like around 1 or 2 percent and not something extremely high like 18. I am positive the game does not increase inflation when receiving reparations at the end of a war. Although those amounts are usually low and recurring.
Well, if you want to be truly "strict" we did not allow equipment and land sales (apart from colonies and that only happened only as exchanges, is Spain/USA in the past) anyway. The anti-abuse mechanism lies in the stopping of exchange of large chunks of money. But I agree at your remark, perhaps for purchases of land and equipment (ships mainly, we should avoid artillery or supplies although in theory it could be done for every non-flesh unit). What about half of the current quotas? ie 1% for every 400 PC or 500 SF?
Early October 1878
running three out of four scripts requested (leaving out Citizen's)
Early October 1878
running three out of four scripts requested (leaving out Citizen's)
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Sir Garnet
- Posts: 935
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Jim-NC wrote:I can confirm bjfagan's findings. I had a battleship squadron that was missing 2 elements. The 2 replacement elements that were built were Steel Battleships 1915-1920. I can currently build 1875-1890 battleships. I have destroyed the squadron in question.
I will have to check my entire navy (what a pain) now for overly upgraded ships.
Now that I look at the Royal Navy, it has a lot of problems. I didn't realize that I was getting 1905-1920 cruisers in my squadrons, so I have a lot of squadrons with 1 or 2 very modern light cruisers. The same I believe with some transport ships, and I have protected cruisers.
Do we know of a way to downgrade them? I would hate to destroy a squadron of 3 ironclads to fix 1 modern light cruiser, but in the same vein, I don't want the keep the light cruisers that I certainly can't build at this time. I have a lot of squadrons that have this problem, and don't want to sink half my fleet if I don't have to.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Jim-NC wrote:Now that I look at the Royal Navy, it has a lot of problems. I didn't realize that I was getting 1905-1920 cruisers in my squadrons, so I have a lot of squadrons with 1 or 2 very modern light cruisers. The same I believe with some transport ships, and I have protected cruisers.
Do we know of a way to downgrade them? I would hate to destroy a squadron of 3 ironclads to fix 1 modern light cruiser, but in the same vein, I don't want the keep the light cruisers that I certainly can't build at this time. I have a lot of squadrons that have this problem, and don't want to sink half my fleet if I don't have to.
It should be okay to sink half your fleet, I am sure no one will take advantage that predicament....
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Sir Garnet
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:23 pm
I have sent Pocus a copy of JIm's message and my earlier thought about fixing it by subunits. I'll send Jim, Brian and Kensai a copy as interested parties. I have not noticed anything strange as Brazil or Portugal - auto-upgrades are only to models I can already build normally.
However, your files highlighting the problem might be useful if clarification of the problem is needed.
However, your files highlighting the problem might be useful if clarification of the problem is needed.
Guys, we might as well first investigate the issue a little bit further. Indeed this is rather strange, but could it be that the chains works correctly and there is a problem with the description of the model? Unfortunately, I do not have the knowledge to investigate the chain of upgrades and techs required for an ongoing game, it must be done by Pocus. But I still have a hope that what we see in the game are simply models BB04 or 05 that have incorrect descriptions on them. So no, do not disband any of your ships just yet.
Worst case scenario is that indeed autoupgrade works uncontrollably and upgrades a ship "in a broken chain" up to its latest model. Kind of strange without attaining first the techs needed (for example, without "Dreadnought" techs how can it be possible to arrive to BB06 or 07?).
Worst case scenario is that indeed autoupgrade works uncontrollably and upgrades a ship "in a broken chain" up to its latest model. Kind of strange without attaining first the techs needed (for example, without "Dreadnought" techs how can it be possible to arrive to BB06 or 07?).
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OK guys, I will check this out with an offline turn. Is Early July 1878 ok? I will do the following (only):
Will do 4 nations a day. Fortunately in a week the report will be out. Stay tuned. In the meantime, if you see something strange in your quotas DO NOT abuse it. Other players may become upset. Do not disband anything you've built so far, just do not recruit any more of it if it looks fishy.
- report all 24 playable nations' structure and force pools including types
- create a ranking list (F10)
Will do 4 nations a day. Fortunately in a week the report will be out. Stay tuned. In the meantime, if you see something strange in your quotas DO NOT abuse it. Other players may become upset. Do not disband anything you've built so far, just do not recruit any more of it if it looks fishy.
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In that case, sounds like a genuine bug to me, Brian. Hopefully Pocus will squash it together with the whole autoupgrade problem in the coming v1.04 which will be ready soon. Some patience.
Late October 1878
Adding Citizen X's script for the needed 2 diplomats (2nd semester of 1878).
Late October 1878
Code: Select all
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Anglia
StartEvent = Two Diplomats for Turkey 2nd Half (1878)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Anglia|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Constantinople
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;2
EndEventAdding Citizen X's script for the needed 2 diplomats (2nd semester of 1878).
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Kensai wrote:In that case, sounds like a genuine bug to me, Brian. Hopefully Pocus will squash it together with the whole autoupgrade problem in the coming v1.04 which will be ready soon. Some patience.
Late October 1878Code: Select all
SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Anglia
StartEvent = Two Diplomats for Turkey 2nd Half (1878)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Anglia|NULL
Actions
SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Constantinople
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;2
EndEvent
Adding Citizen X's script for the needed 2 diplomats (2nd semester of 1878).
*sigh*
Appears to me as though I haven't put my orders for this turn into the dropbox. Or maybe into the wrong folder.
Anyway. No diplomats for the Ottomans. Have you implemented the script this last turn? Or will it be next?
"I am here already.", said the hedgehog to the hare.
-
Sir Garnet
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:23 pm
Savoyard wrote:Has anyone noticed that the structures in Central America don't match the resource in the province (San Salvador and Managua)?
As mentioned before, Latin America was for good reason at the tail end of development priorities since nothing much happened there to affect human players, unlike the other continents. So extemporized setups are to be expected.
Sorry, Citizen X, I had copied the script from my test riq to the official one, but somehow forgot to hit save in the open notepad (or saved after I had loaded the turn, dunno), it should happen tonight.
Savoyard, I suspect the mismatch simply means bad scripted events or starting assets. The wrong structure in a region that does not have that resource will probably mean empty pool, ie 0 production, I guess. If a player controls this structure he should disband it and build the appropriate where the resource exists. If it is AI, we should probably help it by scripting the correct structure. South America should be getting ready for the 1879 events... if the scripted events are not adequate, we could add objectives and give CBs for the parties interested.
Sir Garnet, was looking at the Early July 1878 turn. Strange things happening here. Are you aware that you have an extreme naval force pool for powerful ships? I have counted the availability of 23 Ironclad Battleships and 16 Steel Warships!! I dunno about the other nations, but these quotas are beyond reality and must be rectified ASAP. The fact that Brazil can build steel warships before many other nations could be normal, after all it depends much on random inventions and technologies that are gained if a nation is relatively friendly, but the quotas worry me.
Please everyone load your latest turn, go to the recruit ships interface/filter, and write here what type of ships you can build and in what quantities (availability, not ships on map).
PS. If no one is playing Egypt or willing to do negotiations for it I am willing to take it. Anyone willing please say so here in the next 24 hours.
Savoyard, I suspect the mismatch simply means bad scripted events or starting assets. The wrong structure in a region that does not have that resource will probably mean empty pool, ie 0 production, I guess. If a player controls this structure he should disband it and build the appropriate where the resource exists. If it is AI, we should probably help it by scripting the correct structure. South America should be getting ready for the 1879 events... if the scripted events are not adequate, we could add objectives and give CBs for the parties interested.
Sir Garnet, was looking at the Early July 1878 turn. Strange things happening here. Are you aware that you have an extreme naval force pool for powerful ships? I have counted the availability of 23 Ironclad Battleships and 16 Steel Warships!! I dunno about the other nations, but these quotas are beyond reality and must be rectified ASAP. The fact that Brazil can build steel warships before many other nations could be normal, after all it depends much on random inventions and technologies that are gained if a nation is relatively friendly, but the quotas worry me.
Please everyone load your latest turn, go to the recruit ships interface/filter, and write here what type of ships you can build and in what quantities (availability, not ships on map).
PS. If no one is playing Egypt or willing to do negotiations for it I am willing to take it. Anyone willing please say so here in the next 24 hours.
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Britain will not be submitting orders for the Friday turn resolution (a big storm knocked out power at my house). I may or may not be able to submit for Saturday turn resolution either. Depends on when the power comes back on.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Let us know if you want us to script the disbanding of "Cable & Wireless" (an Electrics Factory in the UK) to abstract you real life woes with those of the game! 
Patience, in the meantime, have a look in the 1878 folder of News & Treaties for the National Rankings. It's a spreadsheet (.xlsx format) where you can rank according to the ranking of choice or raw prestige.
Patience, in the meantime, have a look in the 1878 folder of News & Treaties for the National Rankings. It's a spreadsheet (.xlsx format) where you can rank according to the ranking of choice or raw prestige.
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
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Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)
A bit of bad news gentlemen. I just got orders that I will be going back out to sea in two weeks; and while I will have access to the internet, I will not have access to the my gaming lap top this time around. Unfortunately, at that time I will have to resign from this game because I don't know when I'll be back. I realize this is a bad time, and for that I deeply apologize. I will be able to keep playing for another two weeks, or until someone would like to take over. If you would like to take over the USA, just let me know or just post so here, and I can message you turnover notes. If anyone has the slightest interest in taking over, please let me know as soon as possible - both for other player's sake and because I'm going to be very busy these next two weeks getting my affairs in order before I leave.
I have had a tremendous time playing with all of you guys, and hopefully we can play more games in the future. I will be stopping by the forums periodically to see how the game is going... and hopefully stir the pot a little.
I have had a tremendous time playing with all of you guys, and hopefully we can play more games in the future. I will be stopping by the forums periodically to see how the game is going... and hopefully stir the pot a little.
Sorry to hear that, coolbean. Indeed if you trust someone please give him USA with instructions for the days you're gonna be missing. Have a blast there, man. Enjoy the sea! When you come back to Baltimore, we're gonna be flying the Japanese banner!
Early November 1878
Early November 1878
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
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