[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[Kensai]

Citizen X, unfortunately, if your issue is the 101% CP of other nations it needs to be done in a different way. We had a corrective script in the past for that as well. I will look it up in the old forum. But let me tell you already that this is mostly an aesthetic issue, as long as the colony-national region belongs to you, you should be able to play all the allowed colonial decisions. Actually, if it is national region (since you have a direct connection to your capital) you might not be able to play colonial cards as it is already considered as "core regions".

[lukasberger]

Regarding the so called "coal crisis" (wonder how is that when prices are still relatively low and A-H has some 400 reserved)

The 400 in reserve would barely run my economy for two turns. So it's hardly a big reserve, rather the opposite.

[lukasberger]

The 400 in reserve would barely run my economy for two turns. So it's hardly a big reserve, rather the opposite.

And Chile and Greece are in negative coal every turn, so can't even build anything that requires coal since they aren't prioritized for orders.

So no, it's not a crisis as such yet. But it's not headed in the right direction.

[Ojodeaguila]

That's kinda a silly statement to be honest. Liberia doesn't and never would have the same potential to GB as it doesn't have the same access to raw material. That's really the limiting factor, access to raw materials. I suspect the structure pools are more meant for single player games than multi so that a player doesn't overpower his economy compared to that of the rest of the world.

And it's not like we'd be overruled at a parliament level. Everyone needs coal, getting more would be a parliament's top priority right now.

1. GB was the biggest naval power in the XIX century because they need it to control and protect the biggest colonial empire and because GB have the biggest naval industry in the century like Spain in the XVI-XVII centuries, not because any inborn quality, the same for Russia and his big army, if France, Germany or Sweden take a similar colonial empire must be able to create a similar fleet.

I think the best way to control the military expansion is to increase the maintain cost of the fleet and armies, for Spain when the empire was lost the army and the navy must be reduced because Spain cant afford it.


2. Spain in the game have a different coal crisis I simply cant build more coal mines in my territory and I think that it must be the coal crisis that we have in the game, for me have no sense to see GB in coal problem when they have a big reserves and PC to exploit it, and demand to it.

[Kensai]

It still has a huge colonial empire (even if most has been lost in Africa) and it is a historical fact that of the naval policy (for example). It is not a matter of "inborn attributes" but policies: Great Britain was always like that with its navy, as Russia with its army. If these countries become so small (be defeats) as to completely obscure the above "maximums" then rest assured the resources bottleneck will kick in first. The cost of fleets and armies has already been increased in the v1.03 patch after our request.

Regarding the coal crisis: there is no coal crisis atm and that's a fact (prices in the game cannot lie). If you cannot build in your own country then ask another country do it or build yourself in another country. If you have maxed out your structure pools (kind of crazy so early in the game, then you need to stop expanding or even refold by slowing down your economy, disbanding your industry, army, etc). This is all normal in the game: we have had price fluctuations in the past and if memory serves people panicked again in the other way (just look at our discussion with Vezina).

[lukasberger]

Going to repost this here so the host doesn't miss it in the flurry of posts last page.

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Oesterreich
StartEvent = Return of PoWs from the Austro-Russo-German War|4|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL
Conditions
TurnIndex = 0;2;4;6;8;10;12;14;16;18;20 //4 installments at monthly intervals
Actions
SelectFaction = $AUS
ChgPrisoners = $GER ; -82
ChgPrisoners = $RUS ; -6
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;725
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;72
SelectFaction = $GER
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -339
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;82
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;8
SelectFaction = $RUS
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -386
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;6
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;1
EndEvent

And again, if I can get the prisoner counts from Italy and the OE, it'd be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Citizen X]

Accidently loaded up the trn files as well as the ord files into the dropbox. Seems they havent caught but I advise it here anyway.
Sorry.

[Jim-NC]

Regarding the coal crisis: there is no coal crisis atm and that's a fact (prices in the game cannot lie). If you cannot build in your own country then ask another country do it or build yourself in another country. If you have maxed out your structure pools (kind of crazy so early in the game, then you need to stop expanding or even refold by slowing down your economy, disbanding your industry, army, etc). This is all normal in the game: we have had price fluctuations in the past and if memory serves people panicked again in the other way (just look at our discussion with Vezina).

I don't know why prices have not increased more than they have. At this point, everyone who is selling coal has many more orders then they can fill.

I have already shut down production sites to avoid coal shortages (not because I don't want the production, but because I need the coal for something else). It's not that I don't think I can sell the stuff, I just can't afford to use the coal.

BTW, most of us are smart enough to not drive our stocks to zero, and the game makes it almost impossible. If you do not have a stockpile at the start of your turn equal to your industries demand, some of them shut down. This goes for all input resources (coal, mechanical parts, chemicals, mfg goods, electrical parts, etc). The game no longer tells you that it shut down the industry, you only find out when you notice that your production drops dramatically (see Coolbean's coal shut down due to a lack of mechanical parts). I have been having a problem keeping my gold and gem mines open for example, as my coal stocks don't meet my industrial demand, and they have randomly shut down.

Remember, if your industry requires 210 coal, but your start of turn stockpile is only 200, then some industries will shut down for the turn (10 coal worth). The game doesn't tell you, but you will see it on the F4 screen, as your stockpile of something goes down.

[Citizen X]

SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Syria
StartEvent = evt_nam_syria|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Syria|NULL

Actions
SelectFaction = $GBR
SelectRegion = $Mugla
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Burdur
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Ankara
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Kilikya
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Urfa
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Syria
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectRegion = $Rutbah
SetColonialPen = 0
SetColStatus = 800;-1
SelectFaction = $RUS
SelectRegion = $Ankara
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectFaction = $PRU
SelectRegion = $Urfa
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectFaction = 177
SelectRegion = $Urfa
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectFaction = 81
SelectRegion = $Urfa
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectFaction = GER
SelectRegion = $Urfa
SetColonialPen = 0
SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Aleppo
SetColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Dayr
SetColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Rutbah
SetColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Hims
SetColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Liban
SetColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Palmyra
SetColonialPen = 75
SetColStatus = 802;2
SetColStatus = 803;2
SetColStatus = 804;2
SetColStatus = 805;2
SetColStatus = 801;2
SetColStatus = 798;2
SelectSubUnits = Region 232;Models 3341 332 3343 3344 3345 3346
AlterCuSubUnit = ApplyToList;SetParentGroupFixing 0
EndEvent


Hey. I would like this script to be run. It adresses the colonial penetration issues for the Ottoman Empire as well as the fixed Jeni Ceri. Only the 101% CP in Urfa for Prussia doesnt go away. Neither SelectFaction = $PRU or $GER nor 177 nor 81 seems to trigger it. Any idea?

Thanks in advance.

[Kensai]

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Oesterreich
StartEvent = Return of PoWs from the Austro-Russo-German War (1877)|4|1|NULL|NULL|$Oesterreich|NULL
Conditions
TurnIndex = 0;4;8;12;16;20
Actions
SelectFaction = $AUS
ChgPrisoners = $GER ; -82
ChgPrisoners = $RUS ; -6
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;725
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;72
SelectFaction = $GER
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -339
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;82
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;8
SelectFaction = $RUS
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -386
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;6
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;1
EndEvent

I made it a little less aggressive regarding the running turns, added the classic year reference, made it visible to all. All hosts should have this file until it does four rounds. Citizen X, I should look at it, but there was another script that we had been using to correct incorrect CP in national regions. Bear in mind, that if a rival's CP is less than 101 it is normal as it should go away in time. The sticky CP is the one going 101 when foreign troops enter your region.

Late May 1877

[Sir Garnet]

The force pool and tech is intended to slow down the majors. There is plenty of site force pool among minors, who could invest in majors.

Colonial output going nowhere seems to be a matter of missing Portuguese merchant ships. The question is where they went? So, need to build new ones.

Anyone else have SOI disappear with the updates? Portugal had high SOI in its old colonies from the start of the game, but it went away some time ago and has started up again from the bottom. Maybe this has to do with the natiional non-national territory conversions?

The game is still crashing with the fresh install in Win 7 in a better machine. Trying XP compatibility mode does not seem to make a difference. The advantage is I rebooted the game repeatedly and saved frequently so there is a turn on file that has some of the most critical matters done - previously the extreme reboot time meant I'd have to give up on a crash or two. This is the one where an AGEOD notice box comes up, and appears triggered by clicking the "F" window buttons (most frequently and reliably F9) and opening those. Anyone else have these problems?

WIthout crashing, it would work very well.

[color="#008000"]Crash issue: On another reinstall, in Win7 - it detected some compatibility issue with the 1.03d QF Pocus provided. It was able to adjust the way the program runs. Clicking F9 for Brazil now seems OK.[/color]


Additions in italics

[Kensai]

The minors actually have mostly the same limited force and structure pools. But this is almost inconsequential because of limited resources. Except for shrewd nations such as Brazil and Sweden that have invested a lot in their industrial expansion, good trading practices, and many natural resources. There are many good possibilities, but honestly, if you have maxed out your structure pools by 1877 you are doing it wrong. Either slow down (by reversing past choices, shutting down structures or even disbanding them to build them in MORE efficient regions) or simply wait for new techs that will bring up the structure pool.

Who is playing Belgium?

[Savoyard]

Jesus, I thought I ordered my army to Baluchistan months ago and I come back and Russians take Bandar Abbas.

Damn it.

[lukasberger]

I made it a little less aggressive regarding the running turns, added the classic year reference, made it visible to all. All hosts should have this file until it does four rounds.

Doesn't look like it triggered this turn. At least I'm not seeing it and didn't get the conscripts.

[lukasberger]

Kensai, your arguments convinced me that we don't need to eliminate the coal mine caps.

I think you're right and things are just fine, even good, how they are. We really should have to face some challenges in the game and this is a pretty realistic problem to have especially as it was caused by the over expansion of the economies of some of the major nations.

[Kensai]

Doesn't look like it triggered this turn. At least I'm not seeing it and didn't get the conscripts.

Yes, because it was not the right turn. Considering that last night's turn was the 9th, you should not see it fire before three days (12th turn). However the event referenced correctly.

[Kensai]

Kensai, your arguments convinced me that we don't need to eliminate the coal mine caps.

I think you're right and things are just fine, even good, how they are. We really should have to face some challenges in the game and this is a pretty realistic problem to have especially as it was caused by the over expansion of the economies of some of the major nations.

The only reason I think (one can never be sure) I am right is that I have seen these fluctuations for a long time now and players have always been panicking and demanded actions. But the game so far has been remarkably strong and we had Pocus on our side who implemented patches to fix bugs on the fly. All our problems stem from a single misunderstanding most of us have or had and we've been repeating for a long time now: WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE PACE AND MOLE OF THIS GAME... it is slow, like a chess game played over smail. There is no need to hurry, overexpand, destroy the enemy in a matter of a game year (which is almost a month of real time!). This is a game for patient mature persons who can hold a grudge and keep it, heh, for years if it's needed. I love it because it's really an exercise on mental discipline!

Now, I didn't put these potentially game-breaking structure and force pools, I simply understood why they were needed for a more challenging game. Remember: each nation has unique goals according to its history. As Japan, I do not need to conquer the world to do better than my real-life counterpart in the era... as Austria-Hungary, you don't even have to have a single colony to win. Winning this game would be to humanly survive it until 1920 (we are not even half-way there, yet, consider finishing the game at early 2015) and to get your nation to be at least at par with its real-life counterpart. Rankings are a gauge, but obviously you can put your own goals in here.

Anyway, back to coal, there is really no need to take action after patch 1.01 and that because coal is being exchanged for money in case it runs low for a turn or two. Before that patch it used to break the game as industries were shutting down. The coal reserves for many nations are probably high as the price (set in game by demand/supply) is really low (I think 4 last turn). That is a far cry from a coal crisis. Seriously, my advice is to shut down buildings in regions that are not productive or have already many structures as to avoid having too many jobless people. The rest will balance itself out.

If you have indeed large coal reserves you could even do this on purpose: wait for prices to go even higher then flood the market with your coal and profit from it for a couple of turns when the prices are still up.

[Citizen X]

Questions over questions.
I see that both Prussia (railways and customs) and the US (railways) have concessions in OE. Were concessions not supposed to be unique? Do they have any effect on my part or is it just a benefit for them?
I recieved a free railway by event in Bulgaria. Now I wont complain about that one. Is this a custom event for this game or did it simply never fire in my single player games?

[Boernes]

A) No, sadly those customs/rail concessions aren't unique. I think the devs fixed this issue with some of the colonial actions (chief treaty for example, as long as some other nation plays that in a region, you can't do the same) For you, there is no effect at all, for Prussia or the US it generates a little cash/state funds and prestige

B) Some free railways are scripted from the devs

[Citizen X]

Do minors ever get explorational colonial decisions unlocked?

[Sir Garnet]

Do minors ever get explorational colonial decisions unlocked?

Yes, but colonial cards are scaled back from vanilla at this point due to rapid colonization, and some minors get few or no cards (and the missionary card may not work for some tht have it).

[Kensai]

The missionary card should work if you have it. If it doesn't we need to set the structure pool for Missions, as we've done for Greece.

[Citizen X]

The missionary card should work if you have it. If it doesn't we need to set the structure pool for Missions, as we've done for Greece.

Have the missionary card with Colombia, as well as the trader. Trader works. For the missionary I didn't find a target, but didn't check whether all colony regions have one already. What concerns me for asking is, if Colombia will ever be able to reveal all its territory. There are unrevealed regions that belong to it in Amazonia.

[Kensai]

Early June 1877
I think and hope that some territorial regions are revealed through events. Nonetheless, I am rather curious about the New Britain island in Oceania.

[lukasberger]

EDIT: Never mind.

[Sir Garnet]

The missionary card should work if you have it. If it doesn't we need to set the structure pool for Missions, as we've done for Greece.

As mentioned from time to time, missionaries unlike merchants never worked for Brazil, but works fine for Portugal (spreading the faith is its main global exercise-being affordable helps).

A conspiracy theorist might think IsMajor was once again working behind the scenes.

Brazil has quite a few unexplored regions, including one with diamonds. I expect they will be revealed in time.

[Sir Garnet]

Guys, we are reaching 1878 fast... I will be offering a proposal for a War in the Pacific soon... nothing too extravagant: a scripted event with F10 regional goals, ability to annex, some CBs... The rest will be up to the countries of Latin America to make reality. It could also be a possibility for major nations to be involved in case they want to be on the winning sides and secure lucrative commercial agreements. Alas, the USA might get angry (Monroe Doctrine)...
Early May 1877

There is a War of the Pacific event in the events somewhere. Before getting to that point, it would be nice to fix the military deficiencies in Latin America - lack of any garrison or fortress troops at all, including no fortress artillery, which in truth should represent a large portion of the standing forces of most of these countries. Having only field forces puts a premium on leadership, which is quite limited. Latin American units and leaders all appear to be cloned from Mexico, and stationary forces could be as well.

There is a low half dozen fort quota for these countries, which is relatively tiny for the larger countries - Mexico and Brazil, which can't even fortify their coastal cities. I don't know where the fort quota is, but this should be an easy fix.

[Citizen X]

There is no way that I am war-ready anytime soon with either country. Will do my best to navigate through, though.

[Kensai]

There is no urgent need for that, honestly. Fortress forces will spawn automatically for all nations that sport a depot (or better fort) in the region as soon as an enemy force appears and a auto-defense dice roll successful. It would be indeed ideal to have all secondary and auxiliary units for minor nations but that is really difficult to implement for ALL nations without a significant dedication of time and balancing (on the fly!). You cannot do it only for Brazil or Greece, you will need to do it for all minor nations and on top pray the AI is capable of handling these auxies for minors as well (I believe it does).

However, do not overestimate what the garrison/fortress troops do: they are simply immobile STANDING armed forces inside their towns. Nothing you cannot simulate with normal troops or have automatically when under siege. Actually, if you recall, the problem was the opposite: how to unlock certain troops (as the Sultan's Guard in Constantinople).

I will check out the WotP event. My proposal was to enhance it even more now that we have players for Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Colombia. Doh, we still miss someone to play Peru and Bolivia though...

---

Citizen X, two turns ago we saw a very close cooperation between TUR and CLM, please keep that limited to the point you benefit both nations equally without sacrificing the chances of each: for example one should not sacrifice his secondary nation economically to benefit his primary one. Please bear that in mind.

[Citizen X]

Citizen X, two turns ago we saw a very close cooperation between TUR and CLM, please keep that limited to the point you benefit both nations equally without sacrificing the chances of each: for example one should not sacrifice his secondary nation economically to benefit his primary one. Please bear that in mind.

That's absolutly understood. I will play both countries as though in the next turns I needed to give it back to its rightful owner. Wich might be the case anyway. It is my ambition to be able to hand over both countries in a far better shape then I found them in.

Every step will be made transparent in open treaties announced in the diplomacy thread. I am playing for the fun as much as everybody.