BOA2 : WIA patch 1.04c

[TheDeadeye]

1) Very disturbing.....
2) Always? Or when enemy units are present in debarkation region? Try clicking 'evasive move' on ships as a stealthy enemy may be blocking the departure....
3) Hmmm, need to look
4) OK

Will need save game to investigate these further

Okay done my man.

Sent to yours truly email

[Hobbes]

It seems if you plot a land unit to join a fleet in an adjacent region and also plot the fleet to move - the fleet will not wait for the land unit to arrive before setting sail - I assume this is WAD?

Cheers, Chris

[lodilefty]

It seems if you plot a land unit to join a fleet in an adjacent region and also plot the fleet to move - the fleet will not wait for the land unit to arrive before setting sail - I assume this is WAD?

Cheers, Chris

IIRC, this worked before, so no, the fleet should wait....

[lodilefty]

3) I just remembered back to the events. I was never be able to build replacements anymore via the military option screens past 1776.

Did you look at the second page of the Mil options ledger? Press F3 a second time [I see Regular Repl and Native Repl options there in August 1778....]

Note:
You only get three total opportunities for the 'Elite and Regular' option

While there are several opportunities for the other replacements, they are potentially regenerated only twice per year, at 40% probability each try.

[TheDeadeye]

Did you look at the second page of the Mil options ledger? Press F3 a second time [I see Regular Repl and Native Repl options there in August 1778....]

Note:
You only get three total opportunities for the 'Elite and Regular' option

While there are several opportunities for the other replacements, they are potentially regenerated only twice per year, at 40% probability each try.

Yeh, I checked them. But some were definitely missing, maybe that's because I amassed a ton of Influence Points?

Anyhow, what I also wanted to tell you is that if you look in my save towards Pittsburgh....you will see that there are already French units within that fort. How could the French have arrived there without me detecting their movement from the coast into the hinterland? Unless they went all the way in from Louisiana territory up to PA....which I highly doubt since I would have detected them.

Also, I never see the AI on the American side send any diplomats to Europe to sway France to join its cause.....is it doing that or just waiting until the amount of FE reaches 100? Normally the events text at the bottom tells you what the AI has chosen for its options during the upcoming turn.

[TheDeadeye]

Another AI behavior I'd like to report is during the early years of the war during the siege of Boston.

Basically as the Brits I attempted a Bunker Hill attack on the rebel stack located in Dorchester Heights (I love the map changes around that area :thumbsup . I failed in the attack and was repulsed back to Boston without heavy casualties (lucky). So eventually I was running out of time since I started to burn supplies faster than I generated them (that's WAD) so I decided eventually to evacuate Boston to Halifax.....and merely left two militia units of 4 regiments each behind to hold the city for as long as possible.

Now comes the behavior I found rather strange. Instead of moving the entire massive Rebel stack to assault Boston, the AI just merely sent picemeal units to Boston and assaulted it who out of sheer luck always got slaughtered or repulsed by my militas inside....and this several times until early 1777 when it finally moved most of its initial units to Boston and claim the price.

Why wait so long? What was scaring the AI for that long?

[TheDeadeye]

Also about bombardments I noticed that my ships in Boston harbor never fired on the Rebel stacks.....neither when both armies where in defensive postures (not attacking) nor when I was actually moving my units to attempt the Bunker Hill attack. This would have BEEN the opportunity for the Royal Navy to show its strength and distribute some loving solid and canister shots towards the Rebel emplacements.

In the original BoA the events text actually told you about bombardments and how many hits you dished out and how many you took. Is that still the case in WiA? I never noticed it actually.

[lodilefty]

Another AI behavior I'd like to report is during the early years of the war during the siege of Boston.

Basically as the Brits I attempted a Bunker Hill attack on the rebel stack located in Dorchester Heights (I love the map changes around that area :thumbsup . I failed in the attack and was repulsed back to Boston without heavy casualties (lucky). So eventually I was running out of time since I started to burn supplies faster than I generated them (that's WAD) so I decided eventually to evacuate Boston to Halifax.....and merely left two militia units of 4 regiments each behind to hold the city for as long as possible.

Now comes the behavior I found rather strange. Instead of moving the entire massive Rebel stack to assault Boston, the AI just merely sent picemeal units to Boston and assaulted it who out of sheer luck always got slaughtered or repulsed by my militas inside....and this several times until early 1777 when it finally moved most of its initial units to Boston and claim the price.

Why wait so long? What was scaring the AI for that long?

A guess: since it's a region distant, Fog of War may be confusing the AI. Could you try with a FOW [detection?] bonus for the AI to see any difference?

[lodilefty]

Also about bombardments I noticed that my ships in Boston harbor never fired on the Rebel stacks.....neither when both armies where in defensive postures (not attacking) nor when I was actually moving my units to attempt the Bunker Hill attack. This would have BEEN the opportunity for the Royal Navy to show its strength and distribute some loving solid and canister shots towards the Rebel emplacements.

In the original BoA the events text actually told you about bombardments and how many hits you dished out and how many you took. Is that still the case in WiA? I never noticed it actually.

Boston Harbor is not "adjacent" to Cambridge/Peabody/Bunker Hill, so no ship bombard from there. They should be able to 'help' from Mass Bay.....

This is WAD, because we were getting badly tangled up in movement, 'passing fire', etc...

I've seen the bombardment messages, so it should work..

[lodilefty]

Also, I never see the AI on the American side send any diplomats to Europe to sway France to join its cause.....is it doing that or just waiting until the amount of FE reaches 100? Normally the events text at the bottom tells you what the AI has chosen for its options during the upcoming turn.

Hmm, the code seems OK, scriptreports indicate it tries to do this....

The game enggine processes the Military options before the Diplomatic options [no particular reason, but that's the sequence of events as it is coded today], so the USA, which doesn't earn very many EP, spends all of them on Military stuff, leaving nothing for Diplomacy.....

Possible solutions:

• Put Diplo options before Military [but since Mil opts are cheaper, still may 'spend as you go']
• Cheat, and force the AI [or allow the AI] to buy Diplo options at a discount.....
• Cheat and give AI more EP...

needs to be pondered......

[TheDeadeye]

Also for the city ownership dependent events there seems to be some slight problems with two of them, namely New York City and Philadelphia.

Both events fire for the Brits when the loyalists are gathering their forces in the city following the capture of those said cities. However, the event also fires when merely a siege is going on and the Brits have not captured the cities yet.

[TheDeadeye]

Hmm, the code seems OK, scriptreports indicate it tries to do this....

The game enggine processes the Military options before the Diplomatic options [no particular reason, but that's the sequence of events as it is coded today], so the USA, which doesn't earn very many EP, spends all of them on Military stuff, leaving nothing for Diplomacy.....

Possible solutions:

• Put Diplo options before Military [but since Mil opts are cheaper, still may 'spend as you go']
• Cheat, and force the AI [or allow the AI] to buy Diplo options at a discount.....
• Cheat and give AI more EP...

needs to be pondered......

Well a suggestion:

Why not disable the diplo options for the British AI/Player until Ben Franklin goes to Europe? It only makes sense for the Brits to counteract this when an active threat exists. In the meantime the Brit AI could be focusing entirely on the cheaper MIL options.

For the American AI you might give it more priority for handling Diplo Options and raise the chances once Ben Franklin has departed. Once an Alliance has been secured, then disable the diplo options regarding FE and have the AI focus entirely on the MIL part.

Also, I think it's already somewat factored in but why not give cities (strat and obj) a FE value of 0.5 and 0.25 respectively? Naturally these are example figures and can be tweaked for balancing isssues. My point is though that by every turn you hold those said cities you gain a portion of FE points just as you get for VP points. In addition you don't have to uniformely give each city the same FE point value...for example give the highest FE points of 1 or even 2 to New York City, Philadelphia, Boston and Charleston while giving lower values for the other cities such as Quebec, Montreal, Pittsburgh, etc.

This can then be made for the AI and Player alike to have a severe intrest in defending those said cities to the last or keep it away from enemy hands as long as possible since they really can tilt the FE in a very drastic way. (Btw, in an event when Cornwallis arrives in the Deep South, the event says that his target is Charlestown...shouldn't it be Charleston instead?)

For the EP issue, you can use a similar approach that the capital such as Philadelphia (or any strat city) gives both sides a steady EP flow just like the merchant lanes due for the Brits. For example Philly could give a steady flow of 3 EP points (or less) every turn if in American hands and 2 (or less) if in Britsh hands. Obviously some cities were more important for either sides than others. So if you don't like the idea of the Brits getting points from holding Philly just make New York City and Quebec the biggest cities that give the Brits a steady EP flow so long as they hold it. Once captured you lose the benefits until recaptured.

This gives it another layer of importance of holding these cities absolutely as long as possible for the AI and players.

Onto another question: Is the FE value seen in the upper left corner valid and the same for both sides? So if I see a value of 50 as the Americans then it ought to be also 50 for the Brits? Cos right now as it is, playing as the Brits you have no clue really how far the Americans have progressed in accumulating FE points and it is already pretty hard to totally deter the FE entries of France and Spain for the Brits if not impossible.

[lodilefty]

Well a suggestion:

Why not disable the diplo options for the British AI/Player until Ben Franklin goes to Europe? It only makes sense for the Brits to counteract this when an active threat exists. In the meantime the Brit AI could be focusing entirely on the cheaper MIL options.

For the American AI you might give it more priority for handling Diplo Options and raise the chances once Ben Franklin has departed. Once an Alliance has been secured, then disable the diplo options regarding FE and have the AI focus entirely on the MIL part.

Also, I think it's already somewat factored in but why not give cities (strat and obj) a FE value of 0.5 and 0.25 respectively? Naturally these are example figures and can be tweaked for balancing isssues. My point is though that by every turn you hold those said cities you gain a portion of FE points just as you get for VP points. In addition you don't have to uniformely give each city the same FE point value...for example give the highest FE points of 1 or even 2 to New York City, Philadelphia, Boston and Charleston while giving lower values for the other cities such as Quebec, Montreal, Pittsburgh, etc.

This can then be made for the AI and Player alike to have a severe intrest in defending those said cities to the last or keep it away from enemy hands as long as possible since they really can tilt the FE in a very drastic way. (Btw, in an event when Cornwallis arrives in the Deep South, the event says that his target is Charlestown...shouldn't it be Charleston instead?)

For the EP issue, you can use a similar approach that the capital such as Philadelphia (or any strat city) gives both sides a steady EP flow just like the merchant lanes due for the Brits. For example Philly could give a steady flow of 3 EP points (or less) every turn if in American hands and 2 (or less) if in Britsh hands. Obviously some cities were more important for either sides than others. So if you don't like the idea of the Brits getting points from holding Philly just make New York City and Quebec the biggest cities that give the Brits a steady EP flow so long as they hold it. Once captured you lose the benefits until recaptured.

This gives it another layer of importance of holding these cities absolutely as long as possible for the AI and players.

Onto another question: Is the FE value seen in the upper left corner valid and the same for both sides? So if I see a value of 50 as the Americans then it ought to be also 50 for the Brits? Cos right now as it is, playing as the Brits you have no clue really how far the Americans have progressed in accumulating FE points and it is already pretty hard to totally deter the FE entries of France and Spain for the Brits if not impossible.

There are already EP earned for victory locations, maybe we can do more wit that.

I like idea about disable politics until Franklin

Hmm, maybe some events to give EP for holding regions....

FE display for GBR is messed up, action to repair on the list...

[TheDeadeye]

There are already EP earned for victory locations, maybe we can do more wit that.

I like idea about disable politics until Franklin

Hmm, maybe some events to give EP for holding regions....

FE display for GBR is messed up, action to repair on the list...

Yeh, I think it would be quite enticing to make certain locations more "valuable" in the sense of EP BUT also for FE in my opinion. Why? Quite simply by the fact that the outside world, especially in France, was constantly looking for signs of victory on either side. So, if the Americans were to wipe the North American soil with British blood (in gameplay terms that would be winning major battles (which is already quite neatly implemented) and holding key cities such as Philadelphia, Charleston, Boston, etc. Each of those cities could be generating FE points just as much as it does VP points. On the other hand if the contrary happens and the British rip the Americans apart well then the FE should consistently drop to zero and once it reaches zero it ought to STAY at zero (no more intervention possibility) or at 100 (intervention secured).

So regarding the FE display for both nations, why not start both sides at 50 initial base value. As the game progresses from 1775 - 1782 the base value of 50 is constantly being modified by primarily DIPLO actions, followed by major battles won or lost, preceeded by holding several cities of high importance to either side. So in essence it'll become like a tug of war. Both sides at all times during the game will be aware of the progress of FE and both strive to reach 100 for the Americans or 0 for the British.

This is even more intensified at the beginning of the game when the Americans are hopelessly outgunned and outgeneraled between 1775 - 1777. They have to avoid battles, they have to hold key strategic cities for FE values as long as possible and wait for the Ben Franklin to leave for Europe in order to finally be able to really use the DIPLO gun at full force and drive that FE value to 100 as fast as possible in order to then focus on the destruction of the British war machine. For the British it's initially easier, as was the case in history. They have to hunt the rebel armies down for boost in VP AND FE and to capture the cities that generate a lot of VP and EVEN more FE. So it ought to be possible for the Brits to drive the FE value down to 0 before Ben Franklin leaves for Europe.

Events for EP's are good but events are a one off shot and I think tying the FE values to a specific city, just as it is with VP, would be a good alternative. It makes the race and the defence for those cities more enticing and naturally would produce more larger battles.

[TheDeadeye]

The above lends itself really well for an initial rush strategy for the key cities and should be possible to make it clear for the AI that THESE cities are very important and that she must capture and/or defend those cities with all its electronic might.

When I say rush, I don't mean in the sense of just rushing units to a city and having them slaughtered, no but for carefully planned campaigns to secure those cities and in the process destroy as many enemy units as possible.

[Bruit Bleu]

It seems if you plot a land unit to join a fleet in an adjacent region and also plot the fleet to move - the fleet will not wait for the land unit to arrive before setting sail - I assume this is WAD?

I think I met the same issue early in my 1755 campaign, but didn't really gave attention as it wasn't important at the moment.

[Ebbingford]

I'm using the community mod and playing AWI, Brits, have not noticed any replacements for militia turning up, either by event or in the military options, apart from the ones you get at the start. I'm sure they used to be quite readily available with earlier patches.
Also the George Galphin event has two lines of text when it fires.

[lodilefty]

I'm using the community mod and playing AWI, Brits, have not noticed any replacements for militia turning up, either by event or in the military options, apart from the ones you get at the start. I'm sure they used to be quite readily available with earlier patches.
Also the George Galphin event has two lines of text when it fires.

We reduced dramatically all of the automatic replacements to put more emphasis on the options to buy them. Milita maybe maybe too far

Thanks for the note on Galphin.
Will fix.

[Hohenlohe]

Hello dear fellows,I played the AWI Campaign 1775-1793 until Dec.1775 and got some crazy results.After getting the American Expedition reinforcement I start the usual attack against the American Forces commanded by Ward and got a British Victory.Most of the Americans retreated to the town north of Boston.But some forces remain in Dorchester (power:about 86) and now my force commander Howe was inactivated and the Brits besieged the town without any result because of the fort I assumed.Then after two turns my forces are partially unsupplied-quel surprise.I assumed there will be a supply line traced back to Boston.Then I was a little shocked.Boston generates only 17 supply points and this as a great harbour in that time.Thats not the only thing I do not understand.Then I retreat to Boston with my forces and the next turns I was yet unsupplied and lost half of my important forces due to supply issues.So I will be not able to fight the overwhelming American forces north of me.The American Forces remains in their base north of me supplied with about 28 supplypoints and with a greater manpower than my own ones.
Now my critics:
Historically as I know the British were able to supply their forces by sea with their merchant fleet and they had only supply problems marching deeper inside the country and therefore in wilderness lacking good roads and better control of the surrounding regions.
I assume that the Boston supply problem I got is now WAD,but with this I was not able to fight on British side as before.
I am playing with patch version 1.04c.With the patches before I got other results playing the British side.
I understand that you made any efforts to make the game more difficult playing the British side,but now I think you made it impossible for a British player to win any foothold in New England.I finished playing in Dec.1775 as the British because I do not see any success for my British troops.In the Versions before I had more freedom to play successfully against the green American militia and could gain more footholds in the regions surrounding Boston.
But with this supply problems I am totally irritated and will not play WIA the next time.My intention was to make a strategy guide for the British player as I had announced it some times ago in the SI-Games Forum.But now I see that I will have a very difficult play on the British side in a very ahistorical manner.
I hope for some help and tips from you.Regretable I made no save,sorry.

heartly greetings

Hohenlohe,who is a little bit disappointed...

[Ebbingford]

With regard to the Boston supply problem I've found that it helps if you send the two transports with Howe and his army into Boston and then build a depot with the two transports. Then build a fort with the below strength art and supply wagon. Send the rest of the fleet up to Halifax so it doesn't draw supply from Boston aswell.

[arsan]

Hi Hohenlohe

What you explain is not a bug. It's caused by the changes done on the area on the last patch to reflect the historical situation back then.
You (an me ) will have to change our way of doing things as the British on 1775.
The situation we had on BoA and on WIA until now (the "red flood" covering New England on the first turns) had nothing to do with the historic situation.

These last changes have made Boston the trap it was historically. The British were trapped there until they had to withdraw from the town at the start of 1776.

If you want to keep Boston as your base you will have to invest on it (like Ebbingford suggest :thumbsup or you can use the mobility of your fleet and withdraw (or leave there just a reasonable garrison) and attack somewhere else with your army: New York, Philadelphia...
If its on the coast it's vulnerable to you
That's what happened on reality for what i know!
See this as it is: a game improvement, and enjoy adapting to the new (and more historic) situation

Regards

[Carnium]

See this as it is: a game improvement, and enjoy adapting to the new (and more historic) situation

Well said Arsan
Also try and test this.

[lodilefty]

<snip>
.I assumed there will be a supply line traced back to Boston. <snip>

Unlike AACW, in WIA, there are no 'supply lines'. Supply is only generated in the region, plus a small amount from adjacent regions.

The answers above are exactly correct. Although Boston was a significant harbor, it was also a trap if an enemy forcy fortified the high ground nearby. This is represented by the Dorcester Heights region.

We had to take some liberties with the game design parameters [city and port size] to recreate the historical situation you now see.

The second reason for the design is seen at the American side: Continental Army could not sustain the siege in the old design because there was no way to keep them from suffereing severe winter damage and dissolving. Now, you can build a depot in "The Heights" and stay there...

Yes, it changes radically the gameplay, but the old way was very ahistorical.

For a further look at gameplay changes under consideration, look at the 'Community Mod', which further reduces the supply provided by forts, settlements and stockades.....

[Hohenlohe]

Thank you,dear fellows,for your help and advice.

heartly greetings

Hohenlohe

[lodilefty]

Update: list of some new [and debugged] key shortcuts in first post of this thread.

[enf91]

Does this patch also apply to the demo? Or are you trying to tell us cheapos to go out and buy the game to see what this is all about?

[Carnium]

Does this patch also apply to the demo? Or are you trying to tell us cheapos to go out and buy the game to see what this is all about?

This will probably not work for the demo version but you REALLY will not be sorry if you buy it as it gets better and better all the time.

[arsan]

[quote="enf91"]

Exactly
Jokes aside, no the patch does not work with the demo, just with the full game.

[enf91]

Why is it that WWI is the only game with a patch for the demo even though the demo lasts only 2 weeks?

[Jayavarman]

Why is it that WWI is the only game with a patch for the demo even though the demo lasts only 2 weeks?

calvinus is awesome.