Crickler
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Replacement Issue/Bug?

Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:51 pm

Hello all, I've been having a problem since coming back to the game last week.

My units keep replenishing hits and even full elements without using any replacement chits, even doing so when no replacement chits are available. Auto-replacement is turned off, easy supply is turned off and attrition is set to historical for both the player and AI. I'm playing on steam and have already tried deleting/reinstalling as well as modifying the two files mentioned in the update sticky( the game wouldn't load before I did this).

[ATTACH]40186[/ATTACH][ATTACH]40187[/ATTACH][ATTACH]40188[/ATTACH][ATTACH]40189[/ATTACH]

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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Wiggum
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Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:44 pm

Same bug in EAW, seems connected to a recent update...

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Captain_Orso
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Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:15 pm

Crickler wrote:8<
My units keep replenishing hits and even full elements without using any replacement chits, even doing so when no replacement chits are available.
8<


First off, replacing hits does not necessarily cost a replacement chit. A dr determines if a chit is expired (hits of sub-unit, when full * 2 = x; if dx dr = x, a chit is expired).

If a missing sub-unit (element) is replaced, it always costs one chit.

HOW do you KNOW that you are receiving replacements without using ANY replacement chits? Do you have "before" and "after" screenshots.

BTW cropping screenshots down to the necessary information is site and user friendly ;)
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Wiggum
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Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:59 pm

In EAW it tells me all the time my Airforce got replacements although i never ever bought a single chit for that and play with automatic replacements OFF from the beginning.

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Pocus
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Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:15 pm

I'll note that and do a check.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Crickler
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Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:33 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:BTW cropping screenshots down to the necessary information is site and user friendly ;)


Apologies, I realised after I posted it I should have at least highlighted the relevant parts.

The screenshots above are before and after, the first shows late December and the second and third show early January (the fourth is just to show that auto-replacements is actually turned off and I'm not a complete idiot:wacko :) . The basic infantry have healed 41 hits in this month without using any chits and I've received an extra brig despite no chit being available. I thought a chit replenished 10 hits on average so I should have expended 3-5 chits.

Here's the replacement screen for the next few turns

[ATTACH]40241[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40242[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40243[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40244[/ATTACH]

As you can see no replacement chits are being used at all. The elite infantry are replenishing hits (and gaining a new element!) without any chits even being available. I missed the screens for early March but the Florie received an extra brig during this period and I think a 6lb that had been lost in combat got replaced as well. The brigs seem to be the only unit that is replenishing hits correctly, I deliberately left them without any chits and they wouldn't replenish hits either at sea in in harbour.

Wiggum wrote:Same bug in EAW, seems connected to a recent update...


Yeah I kinda figured it had something to do with the update as I've never had this problem before, I was just hoping it was something I'd accidentally turned on or overlooked.
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Pocus
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:31 am

A few elements, like irregular and militia in their home area can get back hits for free (from loyal volunteers) but that's the extent of the freebies. So yes, it seems there is some bug here...
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Wiggum
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:23 am

Pocus wrote:A few elements, like irregular and militia in their home area can get back hits for free (from loyal volunteers) but that's the extent of the freebies. So yes, it seems there is some bug here...


Please Pocus fix (or at least look into it) also in "End All Wars", i suspect the bug is there too !
Thanks !

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Captain_Orso
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:38 am

Crickler wrote:Apologies, I realised after I posted it I should have at least highlighted the relevant parts.

The screenshots above are before and after, the first shows late December and the second and third show early January (the fourth is just to show that auto-replacements is actually turned off and I'm not a complete idiot:wacko :) . The basic infantry have healed 41 hits in this month without using any chits and I've received an extra brig despite no chit being available. I thought a chit replenished 10 hits on average so I should have expended 3-5 chits.

Here's the replacement screen for the next few turns

[ATTACH]40241[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40242[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40243[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]40244[/ATTACH]

As you can see no replacement chits are being used at all. The elite infantry are replenishing hits (and gaining a new element!) without any chits even being available. I missed the screens for early March but the Florie received an extra brig during this period and I think a 6lb that had been lost in combat got replaced as well. The brigs seem to be the only unit that is replenishing hits correctly, I deliberately left them without any chits and they wouldn't replenish hits either at sea in in harbour.



Yeah I kinda figured it had something to do with the update as I've never had this problem before, I was just hoping it was something I'd accidentally turned on or overlooked.


Great post :thumbsup:

I've never noticed this before, but then again, I nearly always have lots of replacements for just such occasion ;)

Let's hope Pocus can find the issue :)
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khbynum
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:19 pm

Deleted by poster. I'll plague you gentlemen no longer.
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Captain_Orso
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Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:54 pm

Huh??? You only have 1 Sharpshooter and a bunch of militia and a few other sundry replacement chits. The numbers above the NATO symbols are the number of hits missing from each type. Hold your mouse pointer over them to get a tool-tip.
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Cardinal Ape
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:20 am

I have an updated Steam version of the game and a non-Steam version that is updated, minus the most recent DX11 update. I started a new April Campaign with both versions and compared them. Ya, the fully updated Steam version is completely broken. Chits are not being properly consumed. There is also a new message in the replacement section, 'Our units in the field have received X replacements from our reserves.'

Has there been any new updates on Steam since the August 25th one? Has this bug really been around for a month? Matrix has not posted any update news in Steam, I use the non-Steam version to play, but it would be nice to know whats going on with these new updates..


Also, for what its worth, I know that some 'missing hits' amounts in the replacement chit screen are not totally accurate. Some elements in mixed brigades count as missing hits for the wrong element type. This is easily seen with the Stonewall brigade appearing in early May '61, the light infantry in his brigade register as elite for the replacement tally. The brigade has 5 elements; 1 light infantry, and 4 elite infantry. The brigade is created at 30% strength, each element has 6 out of 20 hits. Looking at the 'missing hits' in the replacement screen, one can see that there is no missing hits for light infantry, but there are 70 missing hits for elites. Since the only elite elements on the field are those of Stonewall's brigade, which total at 56 missing, there is an extra 14 missing hits listed because it counts the 14 light infantry hits as elite, not light.

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Wiggum
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:21 am

Cardinal Ape wrote:Ya, the fully updated Steam version is completely broken. Chits are not being properly consumed. There is also a new message in the replacement section, 'Our units in the field have received X replacements from our reserves.'

Has there been any new updates on Steam since the August 25th one? Has this bug really been around for a month? Matrix has not posted any update news in Steam, I use the non-Steam version to play, but it would be nice to know whats going on with these new updates..


Same for the Steam version of EAW !
I have posted in the Steam forums but they are as dead as this forum or the matrix forum...
Actually i have posted about this and other bugs in the EAW forums here and got NOT A SINGLE REPLY...sad.

I just hope it gets finally fixed for BOTH games, CW2 and EAW !

Teatime
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:28 pm

Cardinal Ape wrote:Also, for what its worth, I know that some 'missing hits' amounts in the replacement chit screen are not totally accurate. Some elements in mixed brigades count as missing hits for the wrong element type. This is easily seen with the Stonewall brigade appearing in early May '61, the light infantry in his brigade register as elite for the replacement tally. The brigade has 5 elements; 1 light infantry, and 4 elite infantry. The brigade is created at 30% strength, each element has 6 out of 20 hits. Looking at the 'missing hits' in the replacement screen, one can see that there is no missing hits for light infantry, but there are 70 missing hits for elites. Since the only elite elements on the field are those of Stonewall's brigade, which total at 56 missing, there is an extra 14 missing hits listed because it counts the 14 light infantry hits as elite, not light.


The reason for this is that the Sharpshooter/Light Infantry regiment in the stonewall brigade is famElite

It uses this model

UID = 90
NationTag = CSA
Name = Infantry
Alias = mdl_CSA_Inf8
TemplateUID = $mdl_CMN_Lit2
ShortName = Infantry
Text = $mdl_txt_CSA_Inf8
Family = $famElite
ImageID = symbol_inflight.png
Color = $colCSARegular
Portrait = mdl_CSA_Skir1.png

Teatime
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:04 pm

This is the wiki on replacements

agewiki

In principal, (as Captain Orso mentioned) recovering a hit does not necessarily consume a replacement chit .. but that does not explain the famElite recovering hits when no replacement chits are available

There are events which allocate replacements, but from what I can see they all occur in 1861 so would not impact what you are seeing in 1862

The other possibility is that the game option rulRecoverHit is not working as expected or is not set to rulRecoverHit = 2

I use a Steam copy and my parameter is set to rulRecoverHit = 2 .. would be good if you can check yours as I use a heavily modded version of the game

look in folder Steam > Steamapps > Common > Civil War II > CW2 > Settings

Using notepad, Open the file GameRules and check as to what that parameter is set. If it is set to 2 then there may be a bug, if it is set to 1 then this does allow replacements to occur without any replacement chits being present and I think nominally represents wounded/stragglers returning to units

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Wiggum
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:35 pm

I just checked my EAW installation and its set to 2:

//Replacements
rulRecoverHit = 2

Crickler
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Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:19 pm

Just checked the game rules file and rulRecoverHit is also set to 2

Teatime
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Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:23 am

Yeh, from what I have been able to dig up there isn't a lot of clarity on how the replacements actually work with those options but it does look like option 2 is not working as it should. You should definitely not be filling missing elements without at least 1 chit allocated.

It is acing like you get some free replacements which are being immediately consumed. 1 chit is enough to get you a replacement element.

Like Captain Orso I haven't noticed anything amiss but also like him I always throw plenty of replacements into the pool. Next game I start I will track it and see if I can identify the units getting the replacements as well.

gunner065
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:28 am

Anything new on this topic? I have the same issue with patch 1.06.1. Auto replacements are off and my forces get replenished. No chits seem to be used as well.

bkosar19
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:50 am

Here is it November and this issue STILL exists.

I just bought this game two days ago and noticed the problem almost immediately: you don't have to purchase replacement chits because the game is doling them out free of charge. (I'm surprised how few people have noticed this problem.)

I own a number of Ageod games and I've never experienced not having to purchase replacement chits. In those other games, if you don't pony-up the cash/conscripts/war supplies to purchase replacements then you're not getting any! Yet, in Civil War 2, I played six months of the Western Theater campaign and didn't have to purchase one chit to keep the replacements flowing. I don't believe Civil War 2's replacement chit system is supposed to function that differently from other Ageod games.

This issue was reported back in September and here we are nearly three months later. This is a major bug that apparently was introduced with the last patch and should have been stamped-out already.

Edit: Yes, I have auto-replacements turned-off.

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Durk
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:08 am

I am not a technical player, but I tried to recreate the issue some of you are facing of replacements just voluntarily joining your armies with no need to build replacements. I cannot do so.
In my games if you build no replacements your units receive none.
So I wonder where the problem lies? I wonder if is it an issue of being in the latest patch, the specific game settings selected or what. It is not typical. This is an aberrant behavior. So in many respects, there is nothing to fix. Yet as it continues for some players, there must be a cause why in some instances this happens. Perhaps it is the computer of the source, that is, who you bought your game from?
Just commenting.

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Captain_Orso
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:10 pm

bkosar19 wrote:Here is it November and this issue STILL exists.

I just bought this game two days ago and noticed the problem almost immediately: you don't have to purchase replacement chits because the game is doling them out free of charge. (I'm surprised how few people have noticed this problem.)

I own a number of Ageod games and I've never experienced not having to purchase replacement chits. In those other games, if you don't pony-up the cash/conscripts/war supplies to purchase replacements then you're not getting any! Yet, in Civil War 2, I played six months of the Western Theater campaign and didn't have to purchase one chit to keep the replacements flowing. I don't believe Civil War 2's replacement chit system is supposed to function that differently from other Ageod games.

This issue was reported back in September and here we are nearly three months later. This is a major bug that apparently was introduced with the last patch and should have been stamped-out already.

Edit: Yes, I have auto-replacements turned-off.


Depending on the scenario you can receive some 'free' replacement chits. For example in the full campaigns near the beginning when force pools are being expanded, and when the large armies in the east are put on the map, locked with only about 1/3 their full strength, you receive a lot of free replacement chits.

Other than those occasions I don't recall ever seeing it happen.

IIRC about 1/3 of the hits scored against one side during a battle are considered recoverable wounds and are therefor put into your CC Pool to represent their return to duty when they have recovered. Also hits from attrition (weather, marching, disease, and straggling, etc.) are partially given back to the player to represent stragglers etc. rejoining their units, but I don't recall exactly what the mechanics are. Logically, they should work like replacement chits, because it would make no sense for them to be put in the CC pool where they would have to be reequipped and redeployed, when they already have their equipment and they are already near their units.

I'm wondering if attrition and battle losses are, if not directly giving replacement chits, acting like replacement chits directly after large losses through battle and/or attrition losses.

principes romanes
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:24 pm

We've had a few threads now on this topic. Many people have this problem.

As far as collected comments go, it seems to be people who have updated the latest patch that have this problem. Of those people who have commented that they do not have this problem, all those who indicated what version they are using do not seem to be using the latest patch. If anybody has installed the latest patch and has verified that replacements are still working properly, even with the patch, I think that would be useful new information.

I've also noticed that the bug does not seem to affect navel replacements - they are still used up normally. I would appreciate if someone else who has the bug could verify that this is indeed the case.

As elegant a solution as the attrition / battle losses explanation is, I do not see how that could be accounting for the bug. In particular, there I still gain additional CCs from the battle losses. I think that if this new effect were supposed to represent those stragglers returning, then it would be a deliberate modification to the code. This bug does not seem in any way to be intentionally created.

Also, this is not players getting the free replacements that are supposed to occur at the start of the war. Those free replacement chits appear in the game as available replacement chits and get used up (when the game is working properly). With this bug, the replacement chits do not get used up and units can get replacements even when no chits are available.

And just a note as to the scale of it - with the bug, the union in the full scenario is at serious risk of exhausting the build pool by the end of '63.
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bkosar19
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:04 pm

As stated, I am familiar with Ageod's replacement chit system. I have AJE, RUS, TYW, and WoN which all feature similar chit replacement systems to CWII's. In those other games, purchasing chit replacements can be a major drain on your resources. Yet, in CWII, I played one scenario for nearly 12 months in which I didn't purchase a single replacement chit. Yet, my armies continually received replacements despite major battles, marching attrition, and having the historical attrition option (player only) set. It's clearly broken and bugged. Undoubtedly, it throws the balance of the scenarios out-of-whack. All those free chits enable the player and AI to go on recruitment splurges all over the map.

Maybe it is a problem particular to a certain version. I purchased it from Steam which automatically includes the 1.0.6.1 patch that was released in August. Unfortunately, due to it being the Steam version I can't uninstall it and then reinstall it with a previous version to see if I can avoid this bug. (Other publishers do enable roll-backs to older versions through Steam, but I don't know if Steam has that feature CWII.)

This is the first time I've purchased an Ageod product from Steam. Although I have purchased a number of games from other publishers through that service and have never had any real issues or complaints. With Ageod, though, I usually purchase their stuff by direct download from the Matrix Games' site, but this time I decided to use Steam for its convenience and ease: no license codes, no faulty installations, automatic updates ect. However, this time it appears that Steam bit me.

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Cardinal Ape
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:26 am

It is really too bad that the Steam version of CW2 does not have an option to roll-back to a previous patch. A lot of games on Steam use the option in case the automatic updates ruins your game. If it did, I would roll-back from 1.06.1 to 1.06. Nothing game play wise has changed. Its just graphics, its like they came into my comfy house are re-arranged my furniture just to confuse me.. :papy:


Anyhow, this last week I did have a working non-Steam CW2, replacements worked fine. Then I updated my game with the most recent patch and it broke my game. Its a bit hard to tell exactly what version this patch is. Inside the game the version shown is 1.06.,1 August 17, 2016. The version I downloaded from the ageod members area is listed as 1.06.1, August 24, 2016. The signing time of the exe in my install is dated at August 26, 2016.

If you are using the most recent version your exe should be dated as last modified on 8/26/2016. .. I think that's right. Right?

Since I updated I have not been able to get replacement chits to work. The only chits I have seen used are light warships for Brig squadrons. I have not gone through every single type of replacement chit to see if they are working, but as a veteran some things are stunningly obvious, like the entire CS coastal artillery at 100% strength without any investment, and chits still in the bank on turn 5.

principes romanes
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:24 am

I've also played around with turning auto-replacements on, in the hope that that would still work to use up some resources. As far as I can tell, turning on auto-replacements doesn't do anything (except I think maybe for ships). I don't know what order the replacing chits versus the AI running auto-replacements, but that may give somebody who knows the coding some idea of what is happening.

And also, I am completely baffled by why replacements seem to work normally for at least some naval elements, as CA and I have both found.
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Captain_Orso
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:05 pm

I'm not seeing elements being replaced without the expenditure of the appropriate replacement chit.

I've set up a scenario with each side having 4 divisions, each division is composed of 8 infantry only brigades, which would each have 2 infantry regiments, when full strength, but each brigade is missing 1 regiment at the start of the scenario. Neither side starts with any replacement chits at all.

After running several turns, no missing elements are ever replaced. Even if I split the divisions up, moving each to a city with a depot, putting them into PP (Passive Posture), splitting out all the brigades from the division, except for one to maintain the divisions, and placing every division and brigade into its own stack, after running a couple of turn, no missing elements are replaced.

principes romanes
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:22 pm

I'm not seeing elements being replaced without the expenditure of the appropriate replacement chit.


Captain Orso, is this with the most recent patch?
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Captain_Orso
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:00 pm

I'm on 1.06

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Cardinal Ape
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Re: Replacement Issue/Bug?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:59 pm

The 1.06 version worked fine for me. Patching to version 1.06.1 is when the replacements broke on my end.

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