Leader Questions.

[dolphin]

Alright. I have been scavenging the forum and using the search engine and can find references to what I want to know, but can't seem to get a clear picture on how leadership stats affect their subordinates.


As I understand it an Army Commander only grants its bonus, or malus to the Corp Commanders.

Could someone explain to me exactly how this is calculated? How and when does an Army Commander benifit, or hurt its Corp Commanders?

We got three ratings. Strategic, Attack, and Defense.

This is very important it seems in determining the best Army for particular Corp Commanders to be assigned to and I am flying blind on this issue.



To further clarify the issue how does it then work for Corp Commanders? How do Corp Commander stats affect their Division Commanders?


Down the line how do Division Commanders affect the elements, or does only the stack commander affect the performence of elements, or is it both?

In short I don't have a clue.

In a large battle with a Corp Commander in charge of a stack, but there is also the presence of an Army Commander in another stack I notice in the battle screen that the Army Commander is depicted as the leader instead of the Corp Commander.

Is there ever an advantage to keeping a bad Army Commander away from his good Corp Commander in order to have better influence on the battle calculations, or is that a non issue as long as they are in seperate stacks?

[GraniteStater]

* The "highest ranking" Leader in the Region is the Commander (Leader Portrait) in the Battle.

* AFAIK, just because a whole bunch of units and elements are displayed in the Battle Results screen, this does not mean that all the elements, units and leaders necessarily participated in the Battle (this is from other posters - I don't know this for a fact). This is why the Army & Corps structure is so important and integral to strategy and tactics after Mar62. If you see the Leaders & units/elements from Corp A with Leader AA and Corps B with Leader BB (both in the same Army), then you can bet with a high degree of assurance that they did both fight. "Independent" Divisions and "Independent" stacks of "loose" Bdes are not anywhere near the same degree of co-operation.

* Some of your questions can be answered by mousing over the Leader's stats before integrating him into a Corps structure. All of the bonuses and penalties come into play only within a Chain of Command, i. e., Army/Corps/Division. The Army Leader affects the Corps Leaders (and only them, I believe - could be wrong); the Corps Leaders affect the Division Leaders. Division Leaders affect their Divisons by improving morale, destroying morale, speeding them up, slowing them down, and in several other ways - see the Unit Detail popup screen that also displays info about Leaders for more details about these attributes.

EXAMPLE: McClellan is Terrible^2, 1-1-2 with detrimental attributes. Keep him away from an Army HQ, put him as a Corps commander under Grant, and voila! - he's a 4-4-2. His Bad Stuff is still Bad, but he's better than before. Similarily, having McClellan as an Army Leader bums everyone out and they move slloowwwllly and go "huh?" a lot.

CSA players don't have to suffer from the Usual Gang of Idiots, AFAIK.

[dolphin]

* Some of your questions can be answered by mousing over the Leader's stats before integrating him into a Corps structure. All of the bonuses and penalties come into play only within a Chain of Command, i. e., .

I tried that. In fact I just loaded up the 63 campaign to test it out, but I see no change in Divisional, or Corp leader stats when I assign and unassign them to their army/corps.

Does it take a turn to show up in the tool tip?

In any case I am looking for a detailed rundown on the whole subject.

Was hoping someone could point me to a thread on it that already has it all explained.

[GraniteStater]

In general, it takes a Turn or so for the Leader to "get used" to his command - you might see 0-0-1 right after he gets a Division or a Corps, maybe even an Army.

Just for the record, I am defintely not a "numbers" guy. IRL, I am, but not when I play these games. My playstyle is to play what is being modelled, not the model. "The map is not the territory." I play the territory, not the map. If I find the model, i. e., the game, to be a good reflection of "reality", that's my cup of tea.

I like AACW because I'm thinking, "Are my guys tired? Where's breakfast? Man, this CO is a nitwit. Think we ought to scout with some cavalry? What's this in this letter from home about the Copperheads? Uh oh, Stonewall Jackson is coming down the road..."

That's my playstyle. I could care less about the code really - what I seek is something that makes me think about what the participants had to think about.

[Jim-NC]

It was posted a while ago. Going by memory here. There are % for each outcome.

If you have an army commander with a 1 rating, your corps commander bonus adders are a possible addition of -2, -1, 0 (this is what makes Mac so bad)
If you have a 2 rating, your corps commander bonus is about -2, -1, 0, +1 (very rare on the +1)
If you have a 3 rating, the corps bonus is -1, 0, +1
If you have a 4 rating, the corps bonus is -1, 0, +1, +2

And so on. The percentages are determined in the game, and I don't remember what they are. It was discussed a while back, but can't remember who found it/posted it.

Edit -
Found it http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7570&highlight=strat+bonus

[Cromagnonman]

I'm pretty sure I have answered this exact question of yours within the past several days.

[dolphin]

It was posted a while ago. Going by memory here. There are % for each outcome.

If you have an army commander with a 1 rating, your corps commander bonus adders are a possible addition of -2, -1, 0 (this is what makes Mac so bad)
If you have a 2 rating, your corps commander bonus is about -2, -1, 0, +1 (very rare on the +1)
If you have a 3 rating, the corps bonus is -1, 0, +1
If you have a 4 rating, the corps bonus is -1, 0, +1, +2

And so on. The percentages are determined in the game, and I don't remember what they are. It was discussed a while back, but can't remember who found it/posted it.

Edit -
Found it http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7570&highlight=strat+bonus

Interesting the SR bonus an Army Commander passes down to its Corp Commanders is percentage based.

That would indicate that it evidently changes from turn to turn, or is the check only ever made if the Corp becomes involved in a battle?

In either event this suggests to me that you will never actually see a physical change to a Corp Commanders SR in the tool tip because the amount of bonus if any is always in a state of "to be determined" ?


Were on the right track here with my question about leader ratings, but this only addresses the tip of the Iceburg.

How do these numbers fit into game calculations.

What exactly does the SR rating do? My best guess is it has to do with Activation?

I know an SR 1 causes a CP penalty to its stack, or any subordinate corp stacks, but does it give a bonus to CP if it is 3+ since you always subtract 2 from the SR to determine any CP modification?

It is worthy of note that the wiki reference does not mention the odds of bonuses for a commander with an SR of 5. It only gives the percentage for a given bonus through 1-4. Does an an SR of 5 offer anything better than a 4, or is it just superfalous.

Also what calculations are the attack and defence ratings used for, or should I say "how and when are they used in what calculations" ?

[Cromagnonman]

The corps bonus (from army command) is calculated separately for each rating, for each corps, for each turn. The tooltip will display the corps leader's modified ratings (with army boni/mali); same if you call up the element detail for that leader. However, if you hover your cursor over the corps tooltip, it will display the rating boni/mali from army to that leader that turn.

The wiki does not go into the percentages for every possible rating. They should be easily deduced from what is provided. They are believed to be the same for all ratings (strat/off/def).

Activation probability is directly proportional to that leader's strat rating; presumably the leader is active if their strat rating is higher than what is rolled on a d6. However, there do seem to be minimal probabilities for activation. Id est, a 0 strat will occasionally be active, and a 6 or greater strat will occasionally be inactive. I cannot recall any other effects of the strat rating, especially not regarding CP.

[dolphin]

The corps bonus (from army command) is calculated separately for each rating, for each corps, for each turn. The tooltip will display the corps leader's modified ratings (with army boni/mali); same if you call up the element detail for that leader. However, if you hover your cursor over the corps tooltip, it will display the rating boni/mali from army to that leader that turn.

The wiki does not go into the percentages for every possible rating. They should be easily deduced from what is provided. They are believed to be the same for all ratings (strat/off/def).

Activation probability is directly proportional to that leader's strat rating; presumably the leader is active if their strat rating is higher than what is rolled on a d6. However, there do seem to be minimal probabilities for activation. Id est, a 0 strat will occasionally be active, and a 6 or greater strat will occasionally be inactive.

Thank you for that. Helps alot.

I cannot recall any other effects of the strat rating, especially not regarding CP.

An army commander with a SR of 1 reduces the CP of itself and its Corps by
-1 because you always subtract 2 from it.

What I was asking is if say your Army Commander has a SR of 5 (-2) will that add +3 CP to its associated Corps, or at least its own Army stack?

Is a Corps CP Bonus/Malus calculated with two seprate modifiers coming from both the SR rating of both its Army Commander's SR and its own SR?


For anyone else following and wanting to know I just read in the Wiki that if your Army, or Corp Commander does only have an SR of 1 as long as you have a subordinate AID de Camp Leader in his stack with an SR of 4 who is not assigned any elements as a division commander he can offset the CP penalty for that stack.


So now we know that the SR rating is associated with #1 Activation and #2 CP Bonus/Malus, but we do not know if you can actually get a CP bonus for having an SR rating of 3 , or higher since CP penalties are determined by the SR rating -2 meaning as long as your SR rating is at least 2 you won't have a negative CP malice to your stack. Will a 3, 4, or 5 SR give you your stack a +1,+2, or +3 CP bonus?



Again I have to ask about the Offensive and Defensive ratings.

When and in what situations are these factored in. Obviously it should have to do with battles, but how exactly are they factored into the calculations.

I am asking for the FORMULA.

[GraniteStater]

It's secret and Pocus ain't tellin'.

[dolphin]

It's secret and Pocus ain't tellin'.

Just for the record, I am defintely not a "numbers" guy. IRL, I am, but not when I play these games. My playstyle is to play what is being modelled, not the model. "The map is not the territory." I play the territory, not the map. If I find the model, i. e., the game, to be a good reflection of "reality", that's my cup of tea.

I like AACW because I'm thinking, "Are my guys tired? Where's breakfast? Man, this CO is a nitwit. Think we ought to scout with some cavalry? What's this in this letter from home about the Copperheads? Uh oh, Stonewall Jackson is coming down the road..."

That's my playstyle. I could care less about the code really - what I seek is something that makes me think about what the participants had to think about.

I can appreciate the way you approach playing the game, but I like doing it both ways simultaniously.

Your way is great and works for me when I am playing the AI, but when I am playing a PBM against a human opponant I like to know the numbers.

[Cromagnonman]

For each of his Offensive rating points, the stack leader adds 5 to the offensive fire of each element in his stack. He gives the same 5 bonus to def fire for each of his defensive rating points.
For each of his Offensive rating points, the unit leader adds 3 to the offensive fire of each element in his unit. He gives the same 2 bonus to def fire for each of his defensive rating points.

Right now I am looking at Thomas' 4th Corps of the Army if the Tennesse. His off rating is 6. Within his corps is Granger's 37th Division; his off rating is 2. Within the 37th Div is the 61st Pennsylvania Infantry Regiment of Crawford's brigade, with a base off fire value of 11. In combat, the 61st will get an offensive bonus of 6x5=30 + 2x3=6, totalling 11+30+6=47. This is the element's % chance to hit during the fire phase of combat when the stack is in an offensive/assault posture. If you read through the battle log, you will find it accounted so.

[dolphin]

For each of his Offensive rating points, the stack leader adds 5 to the offensive fire of each element in his stack. He gives the same 5 bonus to def fire for each of his defensive rating points.
For each of his Offensive rating points, the unit leader adds 3 to the offensive fire of each element in his unit. He gives the same 2 bonus to def fire for each of his defensive rating points.

Right now I am looking at Thomas' 4th Corps of the Army if the Tennesse. His off rating is 6. Within his corps is Granger's 37th Division; his off rating is 2. Within the 37th Div is the 61st Pennsylvania Infantry Regiment of Crawford's brigade, with a base off fire value of 11. In combat, the 61st will get an offensive bonus of 6x5=30 + 2x3=6, totalling 11+30+6=47. This is the element's % chance to hit during the fire phase of combat when the stack is in an offensive/assault posture. If you read through the battle log, you will find it accounted so.

Thank you very very much.

For each of his Offensive rating points, the unit leader adds 3 to the offensive fire of each element in his unit. He gives the same 2 bonus to def fire for each of his defensive rating points.

I presume you misstyped when you wrote that and you meant 3 bonus to defensive fire.





I found this in the Wiki. Not sure exacly what it is saying as it sounds a bit confusing.

Perhaps you understand it better and can explain.

Sounds like an exploit actually.


Tip about General Bonuses

The bonus (Attack & Defense) of a general improve the global value displayed in the map (when you let the mouse on a force) of all its unit, so actually all the elements of its own division or litlle brigade he merged with. That means you can really improve the force of each your division if you use your best generals as division general. Before, i believed it was only the general commanding the whole force which gave its bonus in combat without displyaying it all the time. I don't know about this, now...

So actually now, it could be also very interesting to have also Corps generals which are also Divisional generals, but there is a bug, the division button don't appear if you're already a corps. But there is a trick : e.g. Select Grant, put its Corps status off, then make him a divisional general (you will see the total value of the elements inside are much better) then select an other 2 stars general with LESS seniority that Grant and merge it with Grant : then Grant became automatically again a Corps general AND he care of a division too !!

[GraniteStater]

I can appreciate the way you approach playing the game, but I like doing it both ways simultaniously.

Your way is great and works for me when I am playing the AI, but when I am playing a PBM against a human opponant I like to know the numbers.

Nothing wrong with it, just making a joke.

By itself - without other observations.

****************

In a more serious vein, Leaders can mean a lot. Maybe a numbers guy will whip me silly in PBEM, but I know this from the AI and some limited other experience - I had an AI Battle where N. B. Forrest, just Cav, half my size, drubbed me senseless. If you're playing Historical Stats, it's good to know who these people were - the raw X - X - X numbers help to establish a baseline.

I learn mostly from results. I learn from playing and there is still a ton of things I am unacquainted with. After losing DC in a PBEM, do you think I looked up "How to Improve Your Forts?" You betcha. I had never considered the possibility that you can get Victory largely through attrition until today, reading another post.

Leaders Strat rating affects rate of entrenchment - was re-reading one of the stickies.

There is a lot to know about details, but the saving grace is this: "It all depends." It all works together, weather, terrain, morale, NM, lead in VPs, Leaders, composition of Divisons, where you are and where you're going, the naval war, use and denial of rivers, Supply.

I had Sherman in an Army Corps by itself, with Grant as the Army CO. He takes off from Chattanooga, with Atlanta in mind. Two Turns later, Atlanta is mine. That guy can move, put a serious dent in obstructing oppo forces and kick some doors down in a hurry. Get to know Your Guys. Even McClellan can be useful, believe it or not.

Always scope your Supply out, constantly. Scout with Cav, don't leave home before the pony boys have got the dirt on what's up ahead. Spend some $$ and build some Med, some Signals, put 'em in your Bad Attitude formations, they're wasted in Armies, generally. Build up a river fleet that can do something useful as the USA, it's worth it, arguably a better investment than the coastal Navy for a good while. Read the map, always read the map, I mean read the map, read the icons, read the stacks. Read the thread on "Intellitips" - even if you're not a mouseover jockey, that stuff is Good to Know. Reorganize your Corps, Divisions and Armies to get Better Guys in there, don't be a lazy bum like I am, but Experience is valuable, there's a thread on that.

Listen to Jim-NC, listen to Mickey the Magic Snowman, listen to the real veterans and founts of AACW wisdom, and for heaven's sake pay attention to GL and give Pocus a candy bar when he shows up.

That is all. Carry on.

[Cromagnonman]

Yeah, typo. iPhone typing in volume can be fraught with errors.

That bit from the wiki is a less detailed version of what I wrote. I think you will notice that the bigger bonus comes from the stack commander, so he should be the one to whose stats you pay more attention.

I have never checked a battle report in which a stack commander also was a unit commander. However, I seem to recall that the unit in question only receives the 3% bonus and not the 5% bonus.

[dolphin]

I would assume then that the Army Commanders Offensive and Defensive ratings rather than affect an actual divisional element located within a Corps stack instead modifies the Offensive and Defensive ratings of its Corp Commander and is passed down to the elements in that corps divisions in an indirect manner by only modifying the Corp commanders modifer.


However this begs another clarification. Given the use of both Army and Corp level artillary that are not grouped in divisions in addition to any leg regiments, or brigades not assigned to divisions that may be in a Army, or Corp stack.

Can we presume that an Army Commanders Offensive and Defensive ratings will modify the loose elements in its stack including most importantly all those artillary batteries?

If so it would follow it works the same for any loose elements not grouped into a division in a Corp stack as well which would recieve the bonus from the Offensive and Defensive ratings of the Corp Commander of the stack.

Would it also follow that in an indendent stack that elements grouped in divisions would receive the Offensive and Defensive bonuses from both the stack leader who may just simply be the senior one star general as well as the divisional commander it is grouped with, or does getting a two tiered bonus only work if an actual stack leader is operating as a Corp commander?

What about an independent division? Do the elements get x2 bonuses from the division commander. One for his being the stack leader and a second for being the unit (division) leader? I am thinking no, but I thought to ask anyway.

[Cromagnonman]

As I said, the leader fire bonuses work the same regardless of what kind of stack or unit it is. Corps leaders simply tend to have higher ratings from their army commander.
However, as I said, I do not know what happens if the stack leader is also a unit leader. I have not checjed the battle logs. I usually just put a good guy in charge of the stack and an okay guy in charge of the division within.

[Bernadotte]

Maybe you read this NCP thread from post #9 on.
Different game but same enginge

Regards,
Bernadotte

[Cromagnonman]

Now, the really mysterious formula is "(VP)x+y=yield" from drafting/taxing/etc. What would Hooker have to do to offset the economic costs of promoting him past the Wastrels?

[Cromagnonman]

A little more info for you, Dolphin, having pored over a few pages of battle logs. One interesting aspect is that leader bonuses cancel each other. If both oppposing leaders give a +20% battle effectiveness, then they cancel out and the battle effectiveness remains at 100%. If one side gets +26% and the other gets +18%, then their total battle effectivenesses will be 108% and 100%, respectively. Also there seem to be a ton of different modifiers to the "to hit" probability. In one battle, I had several line infantry elements in the same division with very similar paper strengths/atributes. However, in combat against the same enemy, they had "to hit" percentages ranging from 21 to 29. I can't account for this.
All other factors (weather, terrain, entrenchment) also seem to be factored into hit probabilities, but only leader bonuses are so explicitly stated in the battle log.