Places to Attack

[GraniteStater]

Union persective, but applicable to CSA, I'm sure. I was just looking at the flip side of a 62 Colonel start. It's Early Feb65 and I have won the game, although Athena won't surrender. I have every Objective city. I also have the Recruiting centers (Tent icons) for everything except TX, FL & NC. The CSA still has about half a dozen Strat Cities left, almost all being in the above States.

So I take a look at the CSA file. I see Recruiting boxes available for all States. Mousing over the Econ screen, though, shows that her only Conscripts, a paltry few in total, are from the above States. So I think my possession of the Tents is reflected there.

Among other things, Athena is running 49% Inflation and has Replacement chits out the gazoo.

So, what I'm saying is that my way of targeting is to seize (1) Objectives, (2) Recruiting centers, i. e., Tents, and (3) Strategic Cities.

Thoughts, comments?

[dolphin]

I say grab anything and everything you can get your hands on at every given oportunity. Damn the devils and pass the ammunition.

[GraniteStater]

Just to let you know, New Orleans and Richmond are both Very High on any aspiring Yankee carpetbagger's list. Here's why:

IIRC, Richmond is something like 25% of all Reb recruiting. It is also an Objective, perforce a Strat City, and of course, usually means a change of Capital for the CSA.

New Orleans, IIRC, is a huge financial hit to the CSA, although I don't know the figure. It is also an Objective and a Strat City, although not a Tent City.

So, basically, if I'm keeping to schedule, which ain't necessarily easy, by the late spring of 62 I have N. O. and almost always move on Baton Rouge, for it is a Tent.

In the center, Nashville, Memphis (Objectives) and Chattanooga (Tent) - then drive to Altlanta (Obj/Tent). No need for a March to the Sea, you can stop there, Savannah is a Strat City, but not an Objective.

Early game, secure Jeff City (Tent) and Lexington (Tent). You want to shut off CSA recruiting from MO & KY. In MO, drive for the Arkansas river and Little Rock (Tent).

With any luck, you can have MO, KY, AR, LA shut off for Reb recruiting by late 62.

Or am I mistaken? I do believe that recruiting is not available in the corresponding States once the Recruiting Tent is seized.

And Strat Cities are important - Loyalty checks, among other things.

[dolphin]

Or am I mistaken? I do believe that recruiting is not available in the corresponding States once the Recruiting Tent is seized.

And Strat Cities are important - Loyalty checks, among other things.

I would enjoy reading some additional extrapolation and confirmation on the importance of both Tents and Strategic objectives and there direct effects in game.

As it is I only have a general idea.

As far as tents go is there a map mode to determine where they all are?

The way I have been playing I have mainly been advancing on strategic locations and supply depots exclusively and looking for any and all oportunities to win battles for NM.

[GraniteStater]

A small icon of a white tent is displayed in the "city square" of recruiting centers. The following are recruiting cities and have the icon:

Lexington, KY

Jefferson City, MO

Chattanooga, TN

Richmond, VA

Raleigh, NC

Charleston, SC

Atlanta, GA

Montgomery, AL

Vicksburg, MS

Baton Rouge, LA

Tallahasee, FL

Little Rock, AR

Houston, TX

In the North, Pittsburgh, IIRC; Indianapolis; DC for MD, I think - usually not scoping out the Northern centers. Boston, for New England would have one, I imagine.

AFAIK, there is one and only one Tent to a State, but I could be mistaken. I'm almost absolutely sure about the Southern ones.

STRATEGIC NOTE

Thus you see that it is of importance to deny Northern occupation of these. AFAIK, when the North seizes these, Conscripts = 0 for the affected State. I would say that it's probably difficult to deny Lexington and Jeff City for long, but TN should be fought for with resolve. Charleston and Baton Rouge are vulnerable to seaborne invasions. Richmond, of course is at the top of the list in almost every category, unless the Southern player doesn't put his capital there - but VA is the single biggest source of manpower for the CSA, AFAIK.

[dolphin]

Richmond, of course is at the top of the list in almost every category, unless the Southern player doesn't put his capital there - but VA is the single biggest source of manpower for the CSA, AFAIK.

Is there actually an option to start with the Southern Capital somewhere else? As far as I knew it is only a costly option done as a last resort if the CSA has to move it if and when it is captured?

Does moving the capital change the recruitment conscript value of Richmond, or perhaps move it to the new capital?

Does moving the capital alter the +50 VP per turn Richmond gives the Union as an objective in the grand campaign game?

It seems to me if the CSA loses Richmond and simply cannot take it back quickly that a +50 vp per turn is insurmountable in terms of the CSA having a chance to win. Washington is only worth +10 per turn for the CSA. All other objectives being worth mostly just a +1.

[GraniteStater]

Is there actually an option to start with the Southern Capital somewhere else. As far as I knew it is only a costly option done as a last resort if the CSA has to move it if and when it is captured?

Does moving the capital change the recruitment conscript value of Richmond, or perhaps move it to the new capital?

Does moving the capital alter the +50 VP per turn Richmond gives the Union as an objective in the grand campaign game?

It seems to me if the CSA loses Richmond and simply cannot take it back quickly that a +50 vp per turn is insurmountable in terms of the CSA having a chance to win. Washington is only worth +10 per turn for the CSA. All other objectives being worth mostly just a +1.

IRL, VA was the most populous Southern state, even w/o WV, IIRC. New Orleans was the most populous city in the South.

I would guess that the conscript base doesn't change, regardless of where the capital is. I have played an AI game where the AI chose Atlanta as the capital - but I'd be guessing that's rare for the AI.

[Cromagnonman]

Richmond's recruitment potential does not move with the government. However, I don't think the Union actually gets 50 VP per turn for holding Richmond.

As for recruitment centers, Pennsylvania has 2 (Philly & Pitt), as does Upper Canada. France & Mexico do not have any.

[dolphin]

IIRC

.

I keep seeing these four letters referenced in quite a few posts including yours this time. What is IIRC ?

[dolphin]

I don't think the Union actually gets 50 VP per turn for holding Richmond.

That is what it says in the objectives screen. Seems to me it would have been changed in one of the updates if it was wrong.

Now you have me totally in a conundrum about this issue and it will keep nagging till I one day find out one way, or the other.

[GraniteStater]

Northern RCs (Tents):

New Eng. - Boston
NY - NYC, Albany
NJ - Trenton
PA - Philly, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh
DE - Dover
MD - Balt, Annapolis, DC
WV - Wheeling
OH - Cincy, Columbus
IN - Indy
IL - Chicago, Springfield
IA - Des Moines
WI - Milwaukee
KS - Leavenworth
MO - St. Louis (Union), Jeff City (Confed)

[GraniteStater]

I keep seeing these four letters referenced in quite a few posts including yours this time. What is IIRC ?

"If I Recall Correctly"

AFAIK - As Far As I Know

FWIW - For What It's Worth

and many others. Follow a 12-year old kid around, you'll get the hang of it.

[GraniteStater]

That is what it says in the objectives screen. Seems to me it would have been changed in one of the updates if it was wrong.

Now you have me totally in a conundrum about this issue and it will keep nagging till I one day find out one way, or the other.

I don't recall seeing that high a value as a Union player. Mebbe CSA only?

[dolphin]

"If I Recall Correctly"

AFAIK - As Far As I Know

FWIW - For What It's Worth

and many others. Follow a 12-year old kid around, you'll get the hang of it.

I knew what the others were, but I was thinking IIRC was some version update, or something. Never used that one.

[Cromagnonman]

That is what it says in the objectives screen. Seems to me it would have been changed in one of the updates if it was wrong.

Now you have me totally in a conundrum about this issue and it will keep nagging till I one day find out one way, or the other.

Well, my per turn VP did not go up by anything like that

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

I would enjoy reading some additional extrapolation and confirmation on the importance of both Tents and Strategic objectives and there direct effects in game.

As it is I only have a general idea.

As far as tents go is there a map mode to determine where they all are?

The way I have been playing I have mainly been advancing on strategic locations and supply depots exclusively and looking for any and all oportunities to win battles for NM.

Tents give 2 conscript points per turn. This is modified by the national morale coefficient though. Strat cities give 1 vp per turn I think? The objective cities give more but nothing like 50/turn. The big bonus with taking Richmond or Washington is it usually gives an insta-win. There's something like a 100 nm swing for taking DC.

[dolphin]

Tents give 2 conscript points per turn. This is modified by the national morale coefficient though. Strat cities give 1 vp per turn I think? The objective cities give more but nothing like 50/turn. The big bonus with taking Richmond or Washington is it usually gives an insta-win. There's something like a 100 nm swing for taking DC.

The tents giving 2 per explains the Economics screen. When I hover my pointer over each state it says 2 in each. Great info to know that it is modified by the NM. I was trying to make sense out of how your conscripts per turn were being calculated and now I know.


If the CSA moves its capital before Richmond is taken can it avoid the massive NM swing, or is the only way the CSA ever gets to opt to move it is if Richmond is taken?

I know the capital can be moved, but I have never done it.

[GraniteStater]

You take an NM hit for moving the capital - it all comes down to how much for this, how much for that.

Still, to return to what to take - Strat Cities are important. First, most of the time, they have a Depot. But, the more I think about it it, the Loyalty check aspect is not to be overlooked. In some of my recent games, PBEM and otherwise, I had Baltimore, in Apr61 Union starts (this particular start makes a difference), up to near 40% Union Loyalty by early or mid 1862. This is huge for a Union player. MO takes forever in Apr61 starts to move Loyalty upward.

And Strat Cities are the key - every time you take one, Loyalty checks are issed across the map. IIRC, the Regions closest to the SC in question are affected the most, but still, IIRC, every Region has a check done. Loyalty is glacial, so every little opportunity, every little uptick helps. Once you have over 50% (or just 50% - dunno for sure), then you don't have to garrison the place to keep the yahoos down and if it's a Strat City or Objective, VPs are cashed in without a garrison. Freeing up troops from garrison duty can be quite useful for the North and is probably a major bonus for the Southern player.

Historical? Historical? How can you not play historically, at least as the Union? You have to take Objectives to win. You want to deprive the oppo of recruits (take Tents). You need to seize Depots to keep the push going (I didn't even build a Depot until basically, I had to - on Normal difficulty, I just took 'em). You want to take Strat Cities to change Loyalty.

All of these considerations channel the Union into securing the Border States, taking New Orleans, conquering Tennesee totally. You've got to do these things, at least.

[dolphin]

Hmm out of curiosity.

I see you guys have listed the tents with regards to the corresponding CSA, or Union control.

Am I to understand that taking them merely deprives the other side of a number of conscripts, or does taking them actually add to your own total as well?

One should bear in mind that every small insignificant level 1 city is still worth taking as they all contribute to streamlining your supply conduits to run smooth.

[hgilmer]

You take an NM hit for moving the capital - it all comes down to how much for this, how much for that.

Will the AI move the capitol twice? It moved it already and it is in New Orleans. What if I get close to NO? Will it move again?

[GraniteStater]

* You may not and cannot recruit from the oppo. I'm pretty darn sure of that, it's come up before.

* Dunno for sure if the CSA gains recruits from possession of St. Louis. Jeff City and Lexington, KY, I'd put money on. Dunno about Wheeling or the MD cities. Dover, DE, I would be surprised if they could. I'm sure, in the Border cases, that Loyalty plays a role, if possibe and applicable. The Union cannot recruit from the Eleven States, period, I'd swear on a stack of Beecher's Bibles.

*****

Even I, the Prince of Logistical Paranoia, watch my dispersion and concentration. Even the slavering hordes of Yankees do not have the numbers to occupy every hamlet and dell. You have to make choices and prioritize. My erstwhile esteemed opponent in a PBEM, in a personal AAR critique addressed to me, mentioned that I had a tendency to pursue too many axes of approach. The Union must guard against spreading thin - you have to garrison quite a few places. The AI on more challenging settings, or a human, most especially a human, will knock you silly with a 2x4 if you let the oppo approach up ill guarded corridors. It's rather inconvenient to retrace your steps and be forced to wheel around to retake Nashville, or Harper's Ferry, or Cincinnati. And you can't guard everywhere in all the strength you would like at all times, not even pedal to the metal $$ and Drafts, 'I don't care about my economy' methods will avail you of the men needed - for by mid-63, there's this little thing called Replacements that are needed for your gorgeous 1750 PWR Corps that just got walloped by R E Lee & Co.

Offensive operations, as a rule, incur more casualties. The North is attacking; the South defends. The North is a machine, crying ever for "More, MORE!"

And you still don't have enough to do all you wish to do.

"Defense often can be the stronger stance; the offensive, however, is usually the decisive action."

[sbr]

The Union must guard against spreading thin - you have to garrison quite a few places. The AI on more challenging settings, or a human, most especially a human, will knock you silly with a 2x4 if you let the oppo approach up ill guarded corridors. It's rather inconvenient to retrace your steps and be forced to wheel around to retake Nashville, or Harper's Ferry, or Cincinnati.

This is my problem in my current PBEM. It is Oct '62 and I have 25 divisions in 4 Armies but I have this terrible habit of not garrisoning important cities/depots. I still have my Militia and 1-2 Infantry element garrisons that I used to hold off the initial Cavalry horde but I haven't done much to improve that. I lost Louisville, which was the only city in Kentucky I held, when a small Rebel Corps made an almost unopposed landing last turn. The is another large Rebel Corps embarked that I am rather sure is going to take Ironton, which has 2-3 Infantry elements, next turn and I don't think I can do anything to prevent it, so I will have to go back and retake it.

What sort of units and in what numbers do you all use to garrison important targets like these?

[GraniteStater]

This is my problem in my current PBEM. It is Oct '62 and I have 25 divisions in 4 Armies but I have this terrible habit of not garrisoning important cities/depots. I still have my Militia and 1-2 Infantry element garrisons that I used to hold off the initial Cavalry horde but I haven't done much to improve that. I lost Louisville, which was the only city in Kentucky I held, when a small Rebel Corps made an almost unopposed landing last turn. The is another large Rebel Corps embarked that I am rather sure is going to take Ironton, which has 2-3 Infantry elements, next turn and I don't think I can do anything to prevent it, so I will have to go back and retake it.

What sort of units and in what numbers do you all use to garrison important targets like these?

KY: Louisville, Lexington, Clarksburg. Then BG. Then RR repair. Prestonburg is a running sore and one of the CSA's favorite Interstates. Take it when you can; if not taken quickly, don't fret, but keep a Div around at least, or a small Independent Corps to guard the porch. A really good thing to do is put a 'strong enough' small fleet in the Big Sandy whatever you call it that flows by Prestonburg to give the Rebs a real personal Nastygram.

I usually end up devoting a small army or equivalent to finally secure KY. It's a pain, it's designed that way. Nashville really helps withis securement, but you won't start to relax until you take Chattanooga and shut of Reb recruiting in TN. And keep an eye on SW VA, too - Athena is an irritating itch at times.

(1) Louisville, (2) Lexingtion - don't let him recruit in KY. These first, these are musts.

[Jim-NC]

You get CS points for taking opponent cities. It is modified by NM, loyalty, and control. Then rounded.

If you take the tent of a state, you only get the conscript points. Your enemy can still raise troops in that state. You have to take all the cities (or is it all the strategic cities) to deny your opponent the ability to raise troops in a location.

[GraniteStater]

Uh, sorry - CS? Whazzat?

Oh, and on further reading - oh ho! You pretty much have to take the State! But, but...see the first post. When I looked at the CSA side, she had no Conscripts, except from the States that had unoccupied Tents, i. e., FL, NC & TX. All else wa either 'browned out' or 0. This was the Econ screen.

Unarguably, units are deployed to non-Tent cities. But can the oppo recruit if all the Tents in a State are in friendly hands?

[Jim-NC]

This is my problem in my current PBEM. It is Oct '62 and I have 25 divisions in 4 Armies but I have this terrible habit of not garrisoning important cities/depots. I still have my Militia and 1-2 Infantry element garrisons that I used to hold off the initial Cavalry horde but I haven't done much to improve that. I lost Louisville, which was the only city in Kentucky I held, when a small Rebel Corps made an almost unopposed landing last turn. The is another large Rebel Corps embarked that I am rather sure is going to take Ironton, which has 2-3 Infantry elements, next turn and I don't think I can do anything to prevent it, so I will have to go back and retake it.

What sort of units and in what numbers do you all use to garrison important targets like these?

Keep at least 1 full division or possibly 2 to retake these important centers. You need to decide how much to defend. I will try to keep at least a 9 element division in objective cities (to stop those raids), with some artillery in the division.

[Jim-NC]

Uh, sorry - CS? Whazzat?

Sorry, Conscripts. It's the shorthand around here (or was at any rate).

CS - Conscript points
WS - War Supply
$ - money

[Cromagnonman]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you've won but she won't surrender. If you continue to play on after breaking her morale or maxing out your own, that's your affair. Athena's only purpose is to fight.

Now, in terms of goals, I aim for a couple things. First, I aim to cripple her economy as much as possible: blue water blockade, plus brown water blockade of Richmond. The second objective is her armies. Eat up her conscription points, and then her cities will fall easily. One easy trick is that if you're on the verge of taking a major city, it may behoove you to wait to order your assault until you are also ordering a draft/call for volunteers. You're likely to catch a few forming units this way.

I usually focus on eliminating or neutralizing her starting armies in the '61 scenario, and then march on Richmond. This aim is abetted by her unhealthy fascination with Pittsburgh and Fort Monroe.

[GraniteStater]

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you've won but she won't surrender. If you continue to play on after breaking her morale or maxing out your own, that's your affair. Athena's only purpose is to fight.

Now, in terms of goals, I aim for a couple things. First, I aim to cripple her economy as much as possible: blue water blockade, plus brown water blockade of Richmond. The second objective is her armies. Eat up her conscription points, and then her cities will fall easily. One easy trick is that if you're on the verge of taking a major city, it may behoove you to wait to order your assault until you are also ordering a draft/call for volunteers. You're likely to catch a few forming units this way.

I usually focus on eliminating or neutralizing her starting armies in the '61 scenario, and then march on Richmond. This aim is abetted by her unhealthy fascination with Pittsburgh and Fort Monroe.

* 'Won't surrender' - took Mobile, the last Objective, two turns ago. No Victory screen. It happens. It's a win, she has two broken swords and a cranky Cub Scout left. Takes a bit sometimes for the program to execute the Victory subroutine.

* Not a bad approach. The game's Victory conditions, though, require Objectives to be taken, at least for the Union. Some people 'turtle up' and wait to unleash the Blue Tide. Me, I'm impatient (and it's a fault). I probably concentrate more on seizing places, you, more on defeating armies. I have noticed that, in my usual way, that things 'get easier' in late 62 or 63, probably because of better Leaders, cihiefly.

[Cromagnonman]

Oh. Those objective cities are mostly a suggestion. You get the victory screen based on NM, as listed on the obj screen. I won my current game without having advanced south of a Petersburg-Nashville-Little Rock line. But I did put 100k secesh in shallow graves and another 20k in federal prisons.