Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

An AAR, of sorts

Fri May 21, 2010 8:18 am

I had quite a bit of comment on the game during my previous pbem with squarian. Having restarted after the patch, I thought it would be nice to let you know how it goes. This is from the Prussian side.

What happend thus far:

In turn one I send Frederic with all his columns south. Most are to stop in Pirna, but the largest one (Keith) is ordered to march on.
In the East an army is formed, and send to Koeningsburg. Siege equipment is lugged along.

Turn two. Keith was blocked from advancing past Pirna. Otherwise the advance goes smooth. Pirna is besieged. Keith is ordered to advance again. I buy a infantry depot btn.

Three. Keith advances to Dipoldiswalde, some cavalry screens him here. They escape, but Keith stops. The Saxons in Pirna attempt a sortie. They are send back with low losses (600 on my side, about 3600 on their side). A single corps is told to hold the siege, the others are to advance toward Prague. Kurt von Schwerins eastern (Schlesien) army reaches Koeningsburg and starts a siege. I attach a cavalry corps (under Schessler) to his army, to screen the siege. I buy a grenadier btn.

Four. My main army reaches Lobositz. The Austrians fall back to Budin. I order my main army to engage them.
The siege in Koeningsburg has no effect. I buy Prusian Infantry.

Five the Austrians fall back to Prague. My men reach Budin, but stop there. With exeption from the sortie at Pirna, no shot is fired yet.
The Saxons surrender. Some of their depleted regiments are received in my cities.
There is a breach in Koeningsburg.
Heavy snow and gales over all of Austria. All passes are blocked.
I order my troops to retreat to their bases. Schesslers corps has to go to the west, as they wont be able to cross the mountains.
I buy a Prussian general.

Six. The main army managed to retreat to Dresden, except for Keith, who is lagging. Total hits I endured due to the snow was 358. A quick count has me loosing about 1750 men due to the snow.
Kurt von Schwerin is still somewhere in the middle of the mountains, Schessler somewhere north of Prague.
I buy an other infantry Depot btn.

The next ten turns we will build up our armies, as fighting in winter is not to be done.
The war isnt going good for the Prussians. Though they won the single skirmish, they lost more men then the Austrians. In fact the Austrians didnt loose a man, the only troops the suffer on that side were the Saxons. And as the Saxons are lost to them anyway, this is no problem.
Compared to last game I have more men left, but that is mainly because the Austrains refused battle. They sure have more men too, and no VP or morale loss yet.

I still havent managed to bring my troops to strenght: I have no men in reserve (exept some artillery), even though I buy depot btns each turn. In fact I am now 1750 men short....
The recommanded blow against the Austrians didnt happen, as they simply dropped back. Reaching Prague was in doubt, sieging it was never an option.

I think we are struggling with a problem of hindsight here. We both know Pirna will fall, no matter what. So a sortie is to be expected - those soldiers are lost, the only thing they are good for, is doing as much damage as possible. So the Prussian need to keep some troops there to keep them in check.
Meanwhile the Austrian knows it is pointless to try to rescue them. He is better of to drop back, avoid combat, and wait till he has massed his troops. By battling now he will loss points, morale and, worse, men. Now he has a minority, when he waits till after the winter and saves his men he has an advantage.
Without an Austrian incentive to do battle, there will be no Dipoldiswalde, and no chance for Frederic to defeat his opponents in detail. Next year, with an unbeaten Austria, who has more men then Prussia, and war on all sides, wil be extremely though.

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hgilmer
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Fri May 21, 2010 1:04 pm

This is exactly what I ran into. Is this against the AI?

During that 2nd year after the winter, I had people attacking me from all directions and there didn't seem to be any way I could cover even all of the central map.

I won a lot more battles than I lost. All of the wins were in the central map with the Prussians. I had a few successes in the North, but the French and the Russians were just crushing everything I did.

The only good thing was that my morale was great and their moral was down to 84.

Anazagar
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Fri May 21, 2010 2:21 pm

But with Austrians withdawing so much it should have been possible to take Prague - even if it would require sieging in winter (bulding a depot on the other side of the Mountains would help with that immensily).

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Fri May 21, 2010 2:37 pm

This is against Squarian - much more dangerous then the AI :) .
As Prussian you are supposed to be swamped by enemies. That is what happened in reality, and that is the challenge. That is what made Frederic considered brilliant - that he could keep al those enemies at bay.

I could have sieged Prague. The times I did though, it lost me lots of men, so I choose not to. Maybe we will fork this history later, and try the other path :) . Don't forget the whole of Austria was blanketed in deep snow with a gale in early november. Passes between Austria and Saxony were already blocked. A siege, especially with the new rules, would have taken at least 4 turns. A few bad die rolls could have wiped out my whole army. And I would have lost lots of troops anyway - while Squarian would have been gathering soldiers (we play with hardened attrition, so camping outside Prague, sieging in winter, will cost you lots of men).

Bertram
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Fri May 21, 2010 2:51 pm

Turn 7 saw the snow lessen. There was still snow, but only in the mountains north of Prague.
Keith made it to Dresden. My troops are not recovering yet (except for cohesion) as I have no replacements to spare.
Kurt von Schwering made it back to Glatz, suffering another 100 hits. His strenght is down to 400 (it was 1600).
Gessler has become stuck in the mountains, as they turned impassable again. I plan another route for him.
I buy another depot btn.

Turn 8 has snow on the ground everywhere again, except for the mountains where there was snow the previous turn. There it is now raining.
My main army stays in Dresden (it wil winter there). They stil have received no replacements. They get some additional units though.
Kurt recovers cohesion (to 800 strenght), but also no men.
Gesslers cavalrists are still stuck in the mud, and now out of food. They also get 100 hits because they are stuck in the mud (it is raining in the hills they are trying to cross). A month ago they were in Radenberg, two weeks ago in Kamenz, and now in Hoyerswerda. Each time their planned route has impassable terrain at some point, so they get nowhere, or are random placed in an other region. Their strenght is 9 ... each unit has only one power. If they dont reach a town next turn I will loose these 8500 men and horses (till now I just have lost about 1000 of them, but all their cohesion is lost).
I have points to buy both an infantry and an grenadier depot btn.

Turn 9 (those turns go fast as we dont move :) ). Gessler mades it to Cottbus. He losses 5 units and another 46 hits. The units he has left are about 4000 cavalrists short. So he managed to loose me about 5000 men...
The Saxon troops can now be used. They are a sorry lot though, the 6 untis are each at only 7 strenght. We will see if they can contribute in spring.
Kurts army in Glantz got the replacements he needed, so that he is back up to almost 100% strenght.
The main army at Dresden isnt as fortunate - they get some replacements, but are still hardly any better then 2 turns ago. They are on a depot, and the depot has supply to spare - maybe I should disperse them. But doing that in winter has me loosing lots of men...
I buy a cavalry replacement (I really need them, due to Gesslers odessy) and upgrade 5 artillry units.

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hgilmer
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Mon May 24, 2010 2:00 am

Any more on your game? I've been watching your AAR and comments closely.

Bertram
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Mon May 24, 2010 8:48 am

Yes, we got moving again. I took the weekend off for some outdoor activity. It is rumored to be healthy. :)

Turn 10. The new year has started, and the new recruits are arriving. I have a total of 17 infantry replacement chits - that should replenish my armies.
Other countries are gettng involved. My allies are preparing their armies (units become unlocked), but are not moving yet (their territories are still not accessable). The newly activated army in Kassel immediatly gets hit by Typhus, killing 2000 men.
And it is in the news that my largest army gets hit by poor sanitation (25% cohesion, and 10% health loss), but I can not find evidence of this (either it didnt fire correct, or my troops did recover before the end of the turn - they were in passive stand in a depot).
I recruit heavy cavalry replacements and a grenadier depot btn. I also send Keith up north, after reorganizing somewhat (less columns in the main army, so I have ** and *** generals to spare - going to need them to organise those new allies).
Still deep snow everywhere, so no movements.

Turn 11, early february. The enemy is gathering allies as well. The Empire (the Holy Roman one) declares war on me, and the other empire - the Russian one - sign the treaty of Versailles, more or less guaranteing that they will also get involved. (those are scripted events).
The weather turns suddenly nice - there is only some snow left in the mountains. It is raining everywhere though, so moving would be very slow.
Troops in Hannover get active - but can not move through Hannover itself, though they can move to bordering enemy regions (and not back into Hannover!). some light units go on recon.
My troops are mostly back to strenght (though not complete). It did cost me those 17 infantry chits though. (This is using them up very fast - is this correct? I would expect 17 chits to last longer then one turn....). So I buy a new infantry depot btn.

Bertram
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Wed May 26, 2010 7:38 pm

Turn 12. Late februari. All quite on all fronts. A bit more snow on the ground then last turn.
This turn I get 23 replacement units. I buy another infantry btn and a grendier btn. Lets see if they all get used again. A general is send north, I have heard rumors the Swedish are getting restless.
I also send a supply wagon to Memel. Without supply they will surrender quickly if (when) the Russians turn up. I hope they last longer with supply.

Turn 13. Early march. Much the same as last turn, only all my chits are used up again! Some regments get complete btn's added, so that is where several of them go - but 23? I wonder where they go.
I buy a new infantry depot btn, and a general.

Turn 14; late march. Still lots of snow on the ground, no weather for a good fight yet.
Sweden decides to get into the game, and declares war on us.
It is decision time. Where are we going to fight this year? Last game I tried to trounce the Swedish quick, with about a thirth of my men, and delay the Austrians near Dresden, while invading Austria in the east. Part one of the plan worked - the Swedish were quickly driven to Stralsund, and besieged. In the east I managed to take Troppau, but fell short of taking Olmutz (the actual goal - it is a strategic city).
But due to some miscommunication among my commanders the Austrians were able to take Dresden. Not a good exchange. And the Hessian army managed to get lost somewhere near the Rhine. So an encore of the same might not be a good idea. On the other hand I now know better how to coordinate the armies - so I might be able to hold the Austrians out of Dresden - and a secure north is nice.
An other option is to hit Austria hard. Advantage is that my main army is near Dresden - just a short march from Prague, where the Austrians are massing. The Swedish arent vdery quick to attack - so my militia might hold them of.
In the east and west (Russian an dFrance) I can not do much else as delaying them - at least until the Austrians are out of the game.
I got some time to decide, first the snow has to melt.

Meanwhile my supply arrives in Memel. Lets see if my men can hold of the Russians for some time.

I buy another depot btn. I have 17 infantry replacements now.

Bertram
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Fri May 28, 2010 2:39 pm

We are a bit further then the AAR is, so not to give Squarian to much help (not that he needs it....)

Turn 15; early April.
The weather keeps improving, the snow is gone, and it is dry. Nice weather for a march.
The replacement units have been used, but this time I got an extensive list of regiments that received a complete btn. (13 of them).

I have decided to send my main army into Austria. Frederic commands the army (power about 2500), Johan von Wedell and Heinrich (Prinz Heinrich von Preussen) the flanks (of resp. 1500 and 2500 power). They will take 12-15 days to march to Budin (the region west of Prague). That gives Squarian a turn to react, but that cant be helped.
Meanwhile Ferdinand (Prinz Ferdinand von Brunswick) will lead the Braunschweig troops to Karlsbad and Eger (both produce 2 menpower).
In the east Kurt von Schwerin will assault Troppau again (also good for 2 menpower). This seems to be an easier nut to crack then the (level 3) fortress Koeningsburg. And it might lure some Austrians to the East, away from Prague.

The Hessian troops are free to move. I send a cavalry detachment to Fulda and to Erfurt; non-fortified towns. They don't produce anything, except bragging rights. The main army marches to with "run-if-you-see-the-enemy" orders. (I don't want to have them on the wrong side of the Rhine again). The main force is only 700 strong - just a roadblock for the French.

The Hanoverian troops are a real force - about 2500 strong all told. Their only problem is the commanding of those troops - they will fight with a 35% penalty due to lack of ** and *** leaders. Therefore I send Prinz Wilhelm to them to assist. I have them concentrate in Munster - a fortified town, strategic city and depot - and near or on the route the French will take if they go to Berlin.
I get the option to defend or evacuate Wesel. I decide to defend it, but the game crashes when I try to activate the choices. So I have to go with the default option - and that is evacuate it.

The north has to fend for itself against the Swedish. Fortunately some Freikorps and Militia are raised in Berlin and around the towns near Pommern. Let's hope this is enough. I will try to take the towns of Hamburg, Kiel, Lubeck and Rostock. They are harbor towns that produce money (and are unfortified).

I buy a depot btn, a grendier depot btn, and I upgrade 5 artillery units. I might get thinking about getting some additional supply units, to put in fortified towns that have no inherent supply. And some more generals would be nice - and additional troops ....

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squarian
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Fri May 28, 2010 4:21 pm

Time to give the Austrian view here!

In '56 I did my best to salvage something from the Saxon debacle but had rotten luck with activations - Rutowski refusing to budge until the surrender.

Once it was obvious I couldn't save the Saxons I did pull back to Prague - and the main Austrian army has been there ever since. It's a attractive position, with the Elbe and Moldau like a moat to my front! So when Fritz advanced, I was willing to risk battle there even with Charles of Lorraine (aka "the Brother-In-Law") in command.

The battle was more or less a draw; despite our lvl 2 entrenchments behind the river line, the Prussians still managed to inflict serious casualties. But so did we - and even if I have to trade three soldiers for each Pommeranian grenadier, I will win in the end.

Meanwhile, the French lumber toward the Rhine, the Russian giant begins to wake, and the Imperial motley crew is sorting itself out at Nuremburg. The Bohemian plain is still center stage, and for now Fritz has the initiative.

Bertram
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Fri May 28, 2010 5:12 pm

Turn 16; Late April
The weather stays good, though there is rain in the mountains in north Austria.

In the east Kurt von Schwerin reaches Troppau and besieges it. I send a cavalry force after him to screen him from Austrian troops.
My main force reaches Budin without troubles. I am informed that the main army of the Austrians, under Prins Charles of Lorraine, is defending Prague. He has a force of about 2000 power in the main army, and two columns of about 2000 and 1800. A bit to close to my own power for comfort, but there is no sense in waiting. I order my troops across the Moldau to attack them. Let's hope Frederic's brilliance wins the day...
Hans von Zieten with some cavalrists takes Karlsbad. Ferdinand is following him with troops (and supply) to take Eger.

The Hessians take Erfurt. Fulda is not reached, and my troops are locked in the woods just north of that town (in Lauterbach). Lets hope they become unlocked before they starve.

My main Hannoverian force is joined by William (August, Duke of Cumberland). He is a *** general, and the force becomes a column of the main army. It is a good thing, as Prinz Wilhelm somehow didnt get his orders, and stayed in the north. Wilhelm, William - as long as the troops are commanded. And this takes care of my command problem, though not all my troops are in Munster yet. Wesel is (of course) empty, the enemy can walk right in.

In the north my Freicorps and militia get unlocked. I organize them a bit, and send them in the direction of Hamburg and Lubeck. Some of my cavalry from Bremen is besieging Hamburg already, but the troops inside outnumber them. They could use some help.

I buy a supply unit (I can raise them only in the east - irritating) and a Prussian and a Hanoverian general. Troops will have to wait.

Turn 17; Early May
The big battle has been fought - new recruits are needed...
The first few rounds went ok - round 1 saw 14 units committed, against 16 of the enemy, with 133 hits inflicted against 109. Second round saw 22 units committed, against 17. We dealt 133 damage against 110. In the 3th round the tide started to turn. 21 units on my side, against 29 of the enemy. And worse, we only inflicted 113 hits, and suffered 156. After that it was 20 against 28 units, and 111/134 and 110/150 hits in the last two round. We retreated after that.
On the enemy side there were in total 78.500 men involved, on our side 67.700. Total losses were 13.800 men on our side, and 12.500 men on the Austrian side. That isn't to bad a result, but they can afford it better then we can.... It really hurts that we could not engage the Austrians before winter set in and they concentrated their troops.
I decide to let the army stay in Budin for now. That binds the Austrians in Prague, so Troppau can be besieged. The men are ordered to start putting up some defensive works.

Other then this it is pretty silent. Wesel has been taken by the enemy, which was to be expected.
Troppau is holding out, and in the north I haven't arrived at any towns yet.
My Hessian troops near Fulda can move again - though they are inactive. They can reach Fulda. I hope they can get some supply there.

I have some replacements - 8 infantry and 3 grenadiers. I buy 2 depot btn and a grenadier depot btn. Let's try to get those troops up to strength as soon as possible.

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Sat May 29, 2010 11:20 am

Turn 18; Late May
My troops are recovering. Cohesion is back, the men not. I build a depot, to keep them fed.
My troops in Munster concentrate. There are too many of them to be commanded in one column, so I form a column of maximal strength under William, and keep the others in reserve.
The Hessians arrive in Fulda but as they are in passive stance (the commander was not active) they don't take the town, even though it is not fortified, and the garrison is only 12 strong. I hope my men survive the lack of food.
In the north my troops take Hamburg and arrive outside Lubeck. Next turn Lubeck and then to Rostok. I might skip Wismar - it is the only fortified place here (except for the Swedish base of Stralsund). I buy another depot btn.
Troppau is still holding - not even a breach. I did cause 10 hits though.
(due to a general mobilization I have 8 infantry replacements and 6 grenadier replacements left).

Turn 19, Early June
In the north I manage to take Lubeck and Kiel. I send my main force, which rested last turn, to Wismar. We will see how strong it is defended. If needed I can go on to Rostok.
In the west the enemy isn't sighted yet. Fulda is still holding out (or rather, my commander is still inactive, and my men are sitting outside). I have send them some supply, so they are good for another few turns.
I have send a scouting party to Pilsen, another unfortified town. It gives one money, two menpower and two war supply. It is also defended by a force a bit larger then my cavalry scouting group. Maybe later....
The depot in Budin is almost finished. I hope the supply situation gets better then. Strangely my main army there is running out of supply, while that army has only about 600 strength, and 5 supply wagons. The column's have no problem - with 2000+ strength and 2 supply wagons.
Kurt has managed to make a breach in the fortress of Troppau and place 10 hits on the enemy. Not enough for an assault, but it is a start. There are some Austrians sighted in Olmutz though. No reports about their strength, but it is a column under Ernst von Bilberstein. And they didnt come from Prague either :( .
Ferdinand has arrived in Eger, and is laying siege. That will take some time...
On the Russian front everything is quit.

I buy an supply reserve in Glatz - not quite sure how it works, but I hope to be able to withstand a siege there is needed. It might be an idea to buy one for Dresden also. I also buy an infantry replacement, an grenadier replacement and an infantry depot btn.


Turn 20 Late June
The main army is still recovering. The Austrians manage to sneak some cavalry around, and catch a supply wagon. My cavalry is ordered to the rescue.
Kurt does not manage to put a second breach in the walls of Troppau, so he is still outside. The Austrians haven't tried to lift the siege this turn.
There are no other developments.
I decide to send a force to Weser, to see if I can get it back (there is only a small enemy force there, I might be able to hit them hard).

Bertram
Posts: 454
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Sat May 29, 2010 11:28 am

Turn 21
The Austrians attacked at Troppau. After crossing the river they charged my army, which is dug in. The battle report looks good - even though the Austrians outnumber me 2-1 (40.000 of them, against 20.000 of mine troops)more of my units engaged then of them, and I do more hits.
BUT it seems only my cavalry brigade is targeted by the enemy. They are wiped out to the last men in one round, no other casulaties. My the rest of the army, though engaged according to the battlereport, but not having lost a single man, ends up in passive mode one region back to the north.
I lose 7 morale.
There is really no way I can envision the cavalry succombing to the last man to an attack, while the rest of the army is standing around. In fact, I dont think I can envison a cavalry brigade being shot to pieces by an attacking army to the last man, period.
These kind of strange results really spoil the game for me. I guess we will wait till the next patch.

Baris
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Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:48 am

good writing will it continue?

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hgilmer
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Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:30 am

baris30 wrote:good writing will it continue?


I had hoped so, too. I know that Bertram was slightly frustrated at one point before this game. I hope he isn't still frustrated.

Bertram
Posts: 454
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:38 am

We will continue. But Squarians router blew up, and it took some time to get a new one installed. We resumed the war today - I'll let a few turns pass before picking up, so as to get some fog of war. It doesn't look to good for the Prussians...

Bertram
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Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:34 pm

A more detailed report from turn 21:

Turn 21, early July
Fulda finally capitulates. My men survive due to the supply wagon I send them.
The enemy in Eger manages to repair a breach - this isnt going good.... and worse, there is an enemy army turning up in the region to the west of them (Hof). It is about 1500 strong, lead by Louis, Marquis d'Armentieres. They outnumber me, (strength 800) but I am dug in and in mountainous terrain - we will see.
In the west, the French main force shows up in Frankfurt am Main. So now I know where they are... All my armies are locked this turn, so I can not react.
I have Weser under siege, but left the siege guns in Munster. They are send to Weser, but next turn - they are also locked.
Up north I keep sieging Wismar, one force stays to screen it, another goes on to take Rostock.
Around my main army the moves are confusing. Cavalry moves and counter moves, infantry marches around - the net effect is that I get my supply back after some skirmishes. The Austrian cavalry mostly survives. We keep hunting them.
In Troppau things to pear shaped. And not only due to our strategy... There is a battle against the Austrians crossing the river. I have 24000 men, dug in, behind the river, with 9000 horses and 76 guns, under Kurt von Schwering (5-2-2). I am attacked by 41.000 Austrians (with 17.000 horses and 36 guns) under Leopold von Daun (4-6-6).
Detailed battle reports show that there is one round of battle, in which 13 units of my troops are engaging 8 units of enemy troops. I inflict 60 hits and suffer 133 (???).
The result is a loss of 11 cavalry units on my side due to close assault.... That is a total wipe out of all my cavalry. I lose 7 morale. My infantry is forced back one region (complete unharmed). This is pretty frustrating - seems my cavalry decided to charge into the river and drowned en masse?

Meanwhile it is also rather disappointing to see that this force of 40.000 men in no way detracted from the 80.000 the Austrians have in Prague. They outnumber me at about 2-1 now, and that is not counting the French (nor the Russian and Swedish). I really need some miracles.

There are two (scipted) choices this turn. I can send Frederic of Brunswick to Hannover, to build an army there, or keep him in my army. I decide to send him to Hannover (the historical option). It does cost me another 10 morale - which is going down to 100 fast.
And I can pay Danzig to remain neutral, or I can let the Russians try to influence them. I can use every advantage against the Russians, so I spend the money to keep them on my side. Money isnt my main problem anyway..

All replacements are used up - I am beginning to wonder if I would have been better to buy new troops. I would have more men by now then, and I could have bought at least one or two new armies.

Bertram
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Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:37 pm

And the next turn - we are back up to speed :thumbsup:

Turn 22, late July
I think I need a way to consistently report on the different fronts in order, or things might get confusing...
My main army is still near Prague. Eger is relieved by the Austrians, my men took one look at the advancing army and left the field. (One round of combat, 13 hits inflicted, 12 suffered). I send some brigades to reinforce my troops, to avoid the Austrians to get behind my main army. I also send a new ** commander - Frederick of Brunswick was commanding them, and he went to Hannover. No further developments.
In the east the Russians are arriving. Memel is besieged, but holding for now. During the turn Russian cavalry units kept popping up in Koeningsberg, and disappearing again. At the end of the turn no units were in or adjacent to Koeningsberg - no idea what happened. Two forces are sighted approaching - a Cossack force under George Browne, and the main force under Stepan Fedorovitch Apraxin. Strengths are unknown at the moment.
Up north there was a short skirmish at Rostock. At the same moment my men arrived, there also arrived a force of about 700 power under Gustav Hamilton. My (88 power) force retreated as fast as they could - but in the direction from which the enemy came. As a result they are now besieging Stralsund - but without siege equipment, and with a 400 power force of Swedish inside. My men can't go back - so I order them on to the east. My main force under Wilhelm von Preussen is in Stettin, and locked.
In the west the French army is advancing from Frankfurt to Kassel. My blocking force engages them, and then falls back. This time not across the river into enemy lands, but not along the road to Kassel either. They go north-east into the mountains. I order them to fall back further, to beyond Kassel. Light cavalry units are ready to raid the French supply. My main Hanoverian army is out of position in Munster. I order them to Lippstadt. Meanwhile I am still besieging Wesel.

I haven't enough men to buy anything - so I don't have to choose between new units and replacements.

Baris
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Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:33 am

I guess prussians have a hard time fighting against large numbers of austrians and her allies. Its generally hard to keep fort memel,also difficult to stop french from advancing from rhineland region. as you said maybe you should have bought some units rather than replacements(baceuse of the number of troops disadvantage). im inexperienced player but do you think prussians have many disadvantages in gamebalance?

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:38 am

It is really to soon for me to say anything about play balance. We are at turn 26, and have 150 to go! :wacko:
Besides, we don't know enough about the best strategies yet. Should I have pressed the attack at Prague? (Yes I think now), should I buy replacements (and keep the hard won experience of the troops) or new troops (and get more units?), how do I build up my armies and brigades - should I have mixed cavalry among the infantry in the brigades (might have saved the cavalry in some battles???). No idea how this will influence the play balance.
And there might be some scripted events in the (near?) future that alter the playing field again...

On to the next turn:

Early august, turn 23
Nothing happening with my main army near Prague. The troops that got displaced from Eger, now got attacked at Karlsbad. Unfortunately before my reinforcements arrive, and bedore their new commander arrives. So they fight with a 35% penalty. After several skirmishes my men retreat. Not to the east, to the depot 3 regions away. Also not to the north, to their own territory and to Chemnitz, but to the west, back to Eger and to enemy occupied terrain. As they have not arrived before the end of the turn I cancel their moves.
I also send a column from Budin to deal with them. The other troops at Budin retreat, after destroying the depot - I cannot take Prague anyway.
In East Austria my troops get chased away from Kosel. Not surprising, after losing my 8000 cavalrists I have a 2-1 disadvantage here.
In the east the Russians breach the walls of Memel in one turn - the supply there was a waste of resources. The strength of the main army is now clear - about 3500 power. Also a 2-1 advantage at least. As my troops are locked, I don't have to choose if I want to fight.
Up north my men manage to retreat from Stralsund. No follow up, as all my troops are locked.
In the west I am still besieging Wesel - no breaches yet. My main army marches south east from Lipstadt to Warburg (just north of Kassel). Kassel is besieged by the main French force. My cavalry is ready to harass the supply lines. The French have build a depot in Alsfeld (two regions south of Kassel). It is heavily guarded, so it is no target - for now.

In general things are not good. The enemies are pressing everywhere, and their moves are well coordinated. They only advance where I am not, or not as strong. concentrating my forces, and trying to hit one strongly (as Frederic did) isn't an option - the coordination of the enemy armies is to good. The attacked army would just retreat, and the others advance the faster.

I buy a new unit. Let's see if that helps. I buy a regimental btn (trained) as the only difference with their less trained collegae is that they are more expensive - and money isn't my problem (I got 700 thousand Thalers - enough for 7or 8 regiments, but just enough men for one) .

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:21 am

Late August, turn 24
There was a big battle - or rather a series of battles, at Karlsbad. As expected the Austrian forces engaged my troops already there before the relief column could arrive. First battle was a two round affair, 14.000 of my men under Friederich Gessler against 22.000 Austrians under Graff Hohenzollern. I lost 1600 men, they lost 1500, for a Austrian victory (I lost 1 morale).
At day 9 the armies met again. The Austrians had gotten reinforcements under Friederich Zweibrucken, and now had 35.000 men. There were again 2 rounds of combat. I lost 1400 men, the Austrians 125. It was one of those strange casualty calculations - the 1400 men I lost were in 9 cavalry units that got wiped out. I lost 5 morale.
At day 10 my relief force finally arrived. I now had 32.000 men on the battlefield, the Austrians 35.000. But the Austrians had fought last turn, and twice this turn. Battle raged for 6 rounds, I lost 4300 men, the enemy lost 6600. One infantry unit was lost on my side, the Austrians lost 20 infantry units, 4 Grenadier units, 3 light cavalry units and 2 artillery units. I gained 9 morale points. Johann von Wedell, who was commanding the relief column, earned a promotion.
Strange thing is that this ended with Gessler and all the troops inside Karlsbad, with the Austrians besieging him... I got to admit that the Austrian force is about 2200 power strong, and my men are about 1700 strong, but one would expect them to be in possession of the field after the battle...
I order a sortie, and Frederic himself, with the army reserves, will advance to the region.
Meanwhile at the Russian front disaster struck. I got attacked by the Russians, near Koningsberg, as expected. My troops fell back after a short skirmish. 26.000 of my men, against 52.000 Russians - and I lost just 400 men, against them 1100. Not bad - until I noticed that somehow my garrison, complete with fortress battery, coastal artillery, town artillery and supply reserve ended up OUTSIDE the walls. The Russians are inside, and in possession of the town. In fact they already got a garrison there.... No idea how this is possible, till this turn the troops were locked inside the town, and there was no battle...
As expected Memel also fell, but that is but a footnote.

The Swedish advance to Wismar. Rather bold - my cavalry is behind them, Wismar is defended by a force of about equal strength (both about 400 power), and I am threatening Rostock. I hope to cut off his supply. Meanwhile my main force here will move from Stettin to his base at Stralsund. That will take 2 turns - my commander isn't locked anymore, but still inactive. (Pretty bad for a 4-0-0 leader).

In the west I managed a breach in the Weser walls. There was a short skirmish at Munden (north of Kassel) , where my blocking force was. Unfortunately my men don't retreat along the road towards Hannover (to the north), but go east into the woods. Somehow I am not surprised. To make matters worse the force then got locked.
My main force (about 2500 power) under Ferdinand von Brunswick arrived from the north west. This force is designated an army. Somehow the blocking force (under Heinrich von Wutginau) refuses the be attached as corps - even though Wutginau is a ** general (because he is inactive?). I could use the coordination...
I have the choice to attack the French in Munden, or their besieging force at Kassel. I decide to attack Munden - the force around Kassel is to strong (about 4200 power!!). I hope to inflict serious damage to the force in Munden before Louis, duc Richelieu (who commands the Kassel force) can arrive.

I have not enough men to buy another regiment - we will have to wait till next turn. I do use the engagement points to buy some Hanoverian replacements - I have the feeling I am going to need them.

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:29 am

And I might post run 25 as well, as I have posted the files elsewhere on the forum, to be analyzed by the bird.

Early September, turn 25
Von Wedell got promoted. Friederich von Gesler is angry at this - he wanted a promotion first. In the same stack there was also a * general (Georg von Driessen) that got promoted (it seems all possible promotions in the stack are done when you hit "promote"). This angers Friederich von Seydlitz. As those two guys lost me the 9 cavalry units a month ago I normally wouldn't care. It does cost me one morale and 35 victory points though :( .

The sortie at Karlsbad worked. At day 4 there is a two round battle. 42.000 men from me against 32.000 enemies. I lose 2300 men, he loses 3000 - but also 4 more units. I gain 2 morale. The Austrians retreats westwards to Eger.
I decide to pursue with one column - go to hit them when they are down. Eger is already pillaged, I think the supply there is nil. With some luck the enemy will starve. There is a small cavalry blocking force behind them, in fact for the last 3 turns now. They have also been locked for these three turns, so they will starve shortly. :( .
The army under Frederic returns to Lobositz. The Austrians are suspecting the road here is under defended, and some cavalry is sniffing around. I hope this army, together with the column under Prince Heinrich, is enough to hold the Austrians from Dresden - though I doubt if that works if the Austrian goes all out.

On the Russian front my out-of-town garrison has a short fight with the Russians near Koeningsberg. We lose, but without morale loss. The force survives for now.
The force retreating from Koeningsberg (under Hans von Lehwold) got hit by a pursuing force (under Dimitri Lopuchin). Even though outnumbered 12.000 against 18.000, von Lehwold manages to win. (600 men lost against 1600, 2 morale gained). We do retreat a region though. I order them to retreat again.
The other - cavalry - force under Dohna meets a Russian force before they can get to the depot they were targeting. No battle, but they get locked one region short of the depot.

In the north there is a strange battle near Rostock. As my cavalry arrives (680 men, no leader), they meet an enemy cavalry force 2721 men under Peter von Boehnen, a 0-0-0 (?) leader). After a short battle my men take possession of Rostock. I lose 17 men, the enemy loses 174 men - all from the single infantry regiment that was there, and is wiped out. (The combat display shows no rounds of combat, no units involved, no hits on either side....)
Outside Wismar we are still just glaring at each other. We are evenly matched, I am satisfied to defend, I suspect the enemy fore is locked (otherwise they would have to attack). I think the enemy cavalry force is going to reinforce them, but they are lost in the fog of war.
Wilhelm finally is active, and will reach Stralsund next turn. I hope he can get the siege going before winter...

In the west I manage to get a second breach at Weser - but so does the enemy at Kassel. The battle at Munden (north of Kassel) goes my way the first round, but the second round a column from the force in Kassel joins in - Ferdinand decides to retreat. We lose 1600 men, they 1300.
I decide to retreat to the north-west, to Brillon. This region is adjacent to the depot in Lippstadt, and I can reach Kassel (or the French supply line) in one turn. It will force the French to turn to Lipstadt, or risk their supply if they go for Hannover.
The Hessians under Wutginau also have a short battle. It unlocks them, and I send then north between Kassel and Hannover. They will harass the enemy when he turns to the west.
It does mean I have no force between Erfurt and Leipzig - I need some cavalry screen there. But those are all lost in the previous battles.
I order the besieging force at Weser to assault, even though there is still a strong force inside. I need them to get moving, I want to send them along the Rhine to the south, to Dusseldorf (and further).

No men for a unit, so I will have to wait till next turn. I will need more replacements....

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:25 am

Well same think happened to me, i attacked a region and there was a skirmish between austrian forces and i won the battle,and without sieging their fort battery and supply reserves ended up outside of city walls,which was not part of the austrian forces i fight with. İn multiplay game i fought 3 succesful battles in pirna(in 1 turn) and captured pirna,next turn very small austrian force came and my forces retreat without a fight(keith,freederick and many more generals were in the same army-not so much cohesion lost)
Also it is strange that when you promote a Column leader all the brigade leaders get promoted,i had 4 brigade leaders needed promotion so i lost many victory points because of column leader :)
so only cavalry armies has disadvantages in combat? or their stats calculated wrongly in battle reports?
some small skirmishes shows battle report as zero units engaged.

Soderini
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:45 am

Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:43 am

I think it's less than realistic to have 3 battles with the same army in less than two weeks. No eightteenth century commander would have risked it and it is probably the main reason why many players end up with their armies depleted very quickly.
Perhaps commanders who lost a major battle should be inactive (though not locked) for several turns?

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squarian
Brigadier General
Posts: 481
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:41 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:03 pm

Soderini wrote:I think it's less than realistic to have 3 battles with the same army in less than two weeks. No eightteenth century commander would have risked it and it is probably the main reason why many players end up with their armies depleted very quickly.
Perhaps commanders who lost a major battle should be inactive (though not locked) for several turns?



I agree - very odd for 18th c. armies to fight pitched battles several times in two weeks, and it probably is racing up our casualty figures.

An unintended consequence perhaps of grafting the SYW onto a framework designed for a later era's wars, I suppose - but forcing all armies to revert to defensive ROE after the initial battle would also be a solution, I think (?)

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:01 pm

I dont think turning losing commanders inactive would help - they are not the ones initiating the next combat round anyway....
In this case there was a combat between the two armies in the region - due to the sortie from my troops. After the combat resolution both armies stopped fighting, one might have been retreating.
Then combat got resumed when the Austrians under Zweibruggen arrived - a fresh army, that engaged my troops. After this was resolved Frederic with his army arrived. Again fresh troops, that engaged the troops already in the region.
Viewed this way, it isnt that odd. Though I suspect a 18th century commander would have waited with the sortie till Frederick arrived (which isnt possible in the game mechanism - Frederic had an army, and would not initiate combat with another friendly force in the region). And the Austrian force would have probably have retreated once they saw they were overwhelmed by the besieging force combined with the army.

Maybe we need to get rid of the "orange' ROE, and only have the "blue" and "green" agressiveness options? (we would need to keep the "red" one, to assault structures - but at lower loss tolerance).

Though we then would be bitching that the troops retreated without reason :) .

The turning out of locked garrisons is being looked into.

As to the casualties: a few turns later I had a snow turn, it caused me 600 hits in one turn. As I understand the engine that means about 6000 men.... As I get 33 replacements each turn (330 men) this means that means I have lost about 18 turns of recruits in one turn. Next turn I lost another 100 hits to bad weather and 1600 men due to poor sanitation.... That is another 5 turns of recruits. There is no reason to blame the menpower shortage on the battles...

Bertram
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:22 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:25 pm

Late September, turn 26

A pretty quite turn. Johan von Wedell arrives at Eger, does battle and wins. Six rounds of combat, I lose 2500 men, and so does my opponent. Not bad, as he had 32.000 men, and I only 25.000. Of course Johan is a 6-4-4 leader, and Zweibrucken only a 3-1-1 leader - and his men have to be hungry by now. They retreat into the town, I lay siege. The risk is that they recover cohesion faster (inside a structure) than I do (outside). There is also a relief force coming up, but that is only about 400 strong.
The Austrians near Prague stay where they are.
On the Russian front my cavalry force gets engaged, they withdraw with little damage. I order them to try for the depot. The remains of the garrison fight again - I am surprised there are any left. I order the destruction of the guns and the remaining supply (it costs me 27 vp).
In east Austria Posen is still besieged, but unbreached.

There is another cavalry skirmish with the Swedish near Rostock - I beat them off again. Wilhelm arrives at Stralsund, and is engaged by the Swedish troops there. 14.000 Prussians engage 9.000Swedish. It is nice to have the numerical advantage for once. I lose 87 men, the Swedish 662. It seems only their cavalry engages (3 rounds, only 2 units on their side, all cavalry. They lose 6 cavalry units for 100%. Another of those strange results). I get 3 morale points, and end up sieging Stralsund. It is a level 3 fortress, so I hope to reduce it before winter - I only have regular artillery.

The garrison in Wesel surrenders. I make 38.000 prisoners!! I also get 75 vp and 2 morale. On to Dusseldorf!
On the flip side, the French make a 3th (and final) breach in the walls of Kassel. It will probably fall next turn. The garrison is not actually assaulted yet, so it is still locked. I cannot even order it to surrender or disband.
Some of my cavalry (under Einsiedel) gets engaged near Frankfurt. They retreat across the Rhine. I order them to Koblenz - they can follow the Rhine to Wesel if needed.

I buy a grenadier depot btn. (it costs just as much men as a regular btn, I might as well get my best troops up to strength!).

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:43 pm

Soderini wrote:I think it's less than realistic to have 3 battles with the same army in less than two weeks. No eightteenth century commander would have risked it and it is probably the main reason why many players end up with their armies depleted very quickly.
Perhaps commanders who lost a major battle should be inactive (though not locked) for several turns?


Maybe in historically, but in terms of gameplay it prevents decisive victory. so different random results can be simulated in each battle.maybe they rest 3 days and fight again if they have near same cohesion and army size,it depends on opinion of course, in my grands campaign my british generals were inactice most of the time so high manpower and army size can be secondary importance sometimes

Soderini
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:45 am

Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:34 am

baris30 wrote:Maybe in historically, but in terms of gameplay it prevents decisive victory. so different random results can be simulated in each battle.maybe they rest 3 days and fight again if they have near same cohesion and army size,it depends on opinion of course, in my grands campaign my british generals were inactice most of the time so high manpower and army size can be secondary importance sometimes


Well I prefer to get more or less historical results in my games, so I wouldn't care that I can't destroy the enemy armies. After all, the Prussians nor the Austrians at the time couldn't either.
But then, everyone plays as he wants of course... ;)

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:54 am

Of course historical battles and environments and event system(i wasnt aware of 7 years war, it was educational) are much better, and as im playing games more than 15 years i can say that my expectations from games ideally are deep historical strategy games.thats why i bought this game,and im glad to see the same motivation from everyone playing this game :)

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