[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[Sir Garnet]

I had a Brazilian division reporting disbanded. There were plentiful chits, manpower pools, and maintenance materials. So I started building another one.

So I am clean reinstalling under Win 7 on a machine that is only a few years old. There was a directx dll hiccup that required a dx reinstall, but the base game runs, and much faster (though many might call it still slow).

If I install the 1.03 patch and the set of files in gamefiles right now, will that be fully current with CIE or do I need anything else?


P.S. I also propose to install whatever 1880 improvements may flow from the other MP for my purposes since I don't think that should cause any problem - as that game is some years ahead, any event corrections there might be usefully added here.

[Kensai]

I actually agree with this.

I wouldn't propose raising the structure in the other game, since that game has been designed to be balanced. But CIE is most definitely NOT balanced, in any way shape or form.

Its been all about pushing the limits of the engine.

We colonized all of Africa in the 1850's, have raised ship caps for nearly every nation, have seen an aggressive GB try to conquer the world and have seen many, many other crazy, a-historical, unbalanced things happen.

So we're far, far past the point of having a balanced game. That ship is out of the bottle and it ain't going back in again.

On the contrary, I beg to differ. The game has been remarkably balanced and stable ALBEIT huge player derailments regarding choices and wars. Personally, I have gone to great lengths to "explain" the events of Japan adapting them to our alternate reality (go see the Diplo thread): for example, the last revolt in Kyushu was attributed both to the demise of the samurai class as well as the lost Hainan expedition. If you do good roleplaying almost everything fits.

Obviously there will be some events that won't fire because their triggers won't fulfill, but I am personally watching that space every game year: studying which events have not fired and why and proposing adaptations, such as the one for Bulgaria (but nemethand already fixed this!).

The colonial game will indeed be over soon, but this does not change much, it would eventually have happened in a 1880 game much earlier as well. I kind of like that the Germans are ahead in our alternate reality although that hasn't changed much for Great Britain's astonishing prestige on still keeping on India and other domains.

Now, it is one thing to downvote proposals of FURTHER hardcore adjustments, but yet another remove the "historical" or difficulty settings we have set. It is really curious that a few game years ago we were discussing to LIMIT the force and structure pools because of the low prices and huge availability and now we are on the other side: shouting that there is not enough. But these fluctuations are part of the game, guys, and some players might even try to profit from it (actually your avatar nation with your huge coal reserves might do it) and the economic wars is definitely part of the fun.

Btw, scarsity is a good thing as our avatar nations have had astonishingly high contentment values due to the very healthy market. It is good to finally see scarsity and, who knows, perhaps war for coal, gems, gold, etc...

[Kensai]

If I install the 1.03 patch and the set of files in gamefiles right now, will that be fully current with CIE or do I need anything else?

Install the game.
Install the v1.03 patch and the latest quickfix (v1.03d).
Copy the quickfix executable we have in the Dropbox (that will get you to v1.03d QF).
Copy the files you will find in the Game Files Dropbox folder in the respective folders.
Check out the Miscellaneous Misc Files folder for other arrangements (aesthetic mainly).

Actually these are instructions for our newest players as well: Citizen X and razorback77.

[Sir Garnet]

Install the game.
Install the v1.03 patch and the latest quickfix (v1.03d).
Copy the quickfix executable we have in the Dropbox (that will get you to v1.03d QF).
Copy the files you will find in the Game Files Dropbox folder in the respective folders.
Check out the Miscellaneous Misc Files folder for other arrangements (aesthetic mainly).

Actually these are instructions for our newest players as well: Citizen X and razorback77.

Thanks, Kensai. The Feb 22 2013 PON.exe quickfix won't install for lack of Squall.dll. The rest is easy enough.

[Jim-NC]

How do I go about building new level 1 farms in this space? I want farms that i can build that don't require coal. The game engine only allows me to build level 2. Should I create a script to do it? Or should we vote on it first?

[Citizen X]

New player question:
Am i Allowed to build everything in my pools or are there any restrictions that I need to observe?

[nemethand]

Late April 1877
retrying nemethand's script

Kensai, thanks a lot.

How do I go about building new level 1 farms in this space? I want farms that i can build that don't require coal. The game engine only allows me to build level 2. Should I create a script to do it? Or should we vote on it first?

No way. I recall some debates earlier on this forum one of the backside of economic development being that once you have researched lvl 2 structures, you cannot build any lvl 1 but you can maintain lvl1 structures. That's the reason, on some occasions, I have kept such structures, where aggregate output allowed.

Just FYI, having had 62 coal last turn, I turned off some structures, purchased some coal, and have a healthier stock of 207 this turn. So, shortage of coal is manageable but (may) require micro-management.

[Jim-NC]

New player question:
Am i Allowed to build everything in my pools or are there any restrictions that I need to observe?

There are no game restrictions on how much you can build (there are restrictions on colonial actions, but they are hard coded into the game, and not under player control/ability to change). So if you have the money, and structures/men, then by all means build. There may be a treaty or secret clause in a treaty that may limit your nation (for example, one of Austria's demands for stopping the last war was that Italy's army would only be 1/3 of it's army) in respect to other nations. Someone should contact you if they have made such an arangement.

[Kensai]

Thanks, Kensai. The Feb 22 2013 PON.exe quickfix won't install for lack of Squall.dll. The rest is easy enough.

Are you sure? I have been processing turns with that in both my rigs. And I hope every other host as well as these executables have the latest fixes by Pocus.

No way. I recall some debates earlier on this forum one of the backside of economic development being that once you have researched lvl 2 structures, you cannot build any lvl 1 but you can maintain lvl1 structures. That's the reason, on some occasions, I have kept such structures, where aggregate output allowed.

Just FYI, having had 62 coal last turn, I turned off some structures, purchased some coal, and have a healthier stock of 207 this turn. So, shortage of coal is manageable but (may) require micro-management.

As nemethand said, Jim-NC, once you discover a new tech there is no turning back (and it is pretty much realistic, I believe, imagine asking a US company to manufacture anything with 19th century tech now that you are in the 21st... yes, coal is needed in higher tier structures, but the efficiency of the structures is much higher as well, meaning you can make more bang for your money and coal, but you have to be careful in which regions to invest for your tech). There are two ways to manage it: do NOT upgrade all older structures and refrain from building unless a region is super efficient with much dedicated population, railways, development, etc.

It needs micromanagement sometimes, especially if you go super-OCD and activate/deactivate structures according to regional happiness (as seen in F6).

---

Guys, we are reaching 1878 fast... I will be offering a proposal for a War in the Pacific soon... nothing too extravagant: a scripted event with F10 regional goals, ability to annex, some CBs... The rest will be up to the countries of Latin America to make reality. It could also be a possibility for major nations to be involved in case they want to be on the winning sides and secure lucrative commercial agreements. Alas, the USA might get angry (Monroe Doctrine)...

Remember: commercial agreements should be used strategically.. having CA with everyone is like having with nobody.

---

Early May 1877

[Jim-NC]

Which is why I make the request. I have run out of coal (not really, but I have to continually micromanage it each turn). My population is only getting about 1/3 of the food it could be eating. At this point, I don't want to build another level 2 farm anywhere, but I want to feed my population. The other option is I stockpile money, and that will lead to a panic (every 2 years like clockwork). I would think that farmers would still create new farms, just not using coal (as they can't get any).

If the group opinion is that I can't, then I can't. And that is that.

[Sir Garnet]

I thought there was still a surplus of food in the world market. Brazil trimmed production due to weak sales (which is possible only to those with merchants offshore), and usually does not offer much more than the amount requested, since usually a substantial portion of those requests turn out to be unfunded by the buyer.

Fortunately there is a stream of immigrants who will help to consume.

[Sir Garnet]

A. having CA with everyone is like having with nobody. [/B]

Having commercial relations with everybody is like having improving relations with everybody.

[lukasberger]

Which is why I make the request. I have run out of coal (not really, but I have to continually micromanage it each turn). My population is only getting about 1/3 of the food it could be eating. At this point, I don't want to build another level 2 farm anywhere, but I want to feed my population. The other option is I stockpile money, and that will lead to a panic (every 2 years like clockwork). I would think that farmers would still create new farms, just not using coal (as they can't get any).

If the group opinion is that I can't, then I can't. And that is that.

I think you should be able to.

[Citizen X]

Which is why I make the request. I have run out of coal (not really, but I have to continually micromanage it each turn). My population is only getting about 1/3 of the food it could be eating. At this point, I don't want to build another level 2 farm anywhere, but I want to feed my population. The other option is I stockpile money, and that will lead to a panic (every 2 years like clockwork). I would think that farmers would still create new farms, just not using coal (as they can't get any).

If the group opinion is that I can't, then I can't. And that is that.

Being new to the game I don't want vote on this matter.
However, If you ask for my opinion, I think game mechanics should not be overruled. Thats why one needs to plan ahead. Overruling the engine takes out the point in a strategic game.

Anyway. Having played only three rounds I

abstain.

[lukasberger]

Can this be run next turn?

Rather an imbalance in the amount of prisoners. Austria sure got beaten up!

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Oesterreich
StartEvent = Return of PoWs from the Austro-Russo-German War|4|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL
Conditions
TurnIndex = 0;2;4;6;8;10;12;14;16;18;20 //4 installments at monthly intervals
Actions
SelectFaction = $AUS
ChgPrisoners = $GER ; -82
ChgPrisoners = $RUS ; -6
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;725
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;72
SelectFaction = $GER
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -339
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;82
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;8
SelectFaction = $RUS
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -386
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;6
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;1
EndEvent

And can I get prisoner numbers from the OE and Italy?

After my screwup a turn ago leaving too few conscripts for the unit costs I've taken so many hits that I really need the men now. My army's a wreck!

[Kensai]

Which is why I make the request. I have run out of coal (not really, but I have to continually micromanage it each turn). My population is only getting about 1/3 of the food it could be eating. At this point, I don't want to build another level 2 farm anywhere, but I want to feed my population. The other option is I stockpile money, and that will lead to a panic (every 2 years like clockwork). I would think that farmers would still create new farms, just not using coal (as they can't get any).

If the group opinion is that I can't, then I can't. And that is that.

Getting less than what your population desires in all 3 resource groups does not mean that your population is "starving". I don't think that is abstracted as your population in case of "famines" will NOT consume all fish more than it wants if the other foodstuffs are missing. It just means that your internal market is not healthy and variegated enough which lowers contentment. You can live with that for many many months as you find ways to rationalize your production and trade. I still see many resources around the world being sold, except for the most rare ones. Prices are fairly normal too.

Having commercial relations with everybody is like having improving relations with everybody.

Sure. If you have Defensive Agreements as well and it will even show up in the Diplomacy ranking. But what is the point if you put yourself in the position to have to "honor" many different agreements and lose a bargaining hand? Both CAs and DAs should be done carefully to add the specific advantages each one brings.

Can this be run next turn?

Rather an imbalance in the amount of prisoners. Austria sure got beaten up!

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Oesterreich
StartEvent = Return of PoWs from the Austro-Russo-German War |5|0|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL
Conditions
Actions
SelectFaction = $AUS
ChgPrisoners = $GER ; -329
ChgPrisoners = $RUS ; -25
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;2900
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;290
SelectFaction = $GER
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -1355
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;329
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;32
SelectFaction = $RUS
ChgPrisoners = $AUS; -1545
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;25
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;2
EndEvent

And can I get prisoner numbers from the OE and Italy?

After my screwup a turn ago leaving too few conscripts for the unit costs I've taken so many hits that I really need the men now. My army's a wreck!

These numbers are kind of crazy. Especially for A-H. This event will run 5 turns and will give you some 12K of conscripts and 1200 officers in a matter of two and a half months. Apart from the fact that you will lose most of them (your turnover will go negative), I think there is something wrong with the calculations. You could use the template that released prisoners in certain months (turns), it is safer.

[lukasberger]

These numbers are kind of crazy. Especially for A-H. This event will run 5 turns and will give you some 12K of conscripts and 1200 officers in a matter of two and a half months. Apart from the fact that you will lose most of them (your turnover will go negative), I think there is something wrong with the calculations. You could use the template that released prisoners in certain months (turns), it is safer.

The 5 turns are wrong. Should only be one. I just copied an old event. Couldn't find the template. If it's going to run five times then the numbers should be divided by five.

But you're right about the numbers. I'd better check.

[lukasberger]

Germany has 135,500 Austrian POW's

154500

Ok, these are the numbers of Austrian prisoners held by Germany and Russia.

Looks right.

And the other numbers are right too, I just got them.

So it looks crazy but I think it's actually correct.

Austria really did badly in that war didn't they? Yikes.

Glad I wasn't in charge then, at least the populace can't blame me!

Not worried about the numbers going negative since I'm going to have to buy a boatload of replacement chits as soon as I get the manpower added.

[Citizen X]

I have a guard corps by the name of Jeni Ceri in Istanbul which is locked. Is this by purpose and if not, can it be unlocked?

[lukasberger]

I have a guard corps by the name of Jeni Ceri in Istanbul which is locked. Is this by purpose and if not, can it be unlocked?

We voted on that back when I was in control of the OE and came to the conclusion it can be unlocked if you want it to be.

I just never got around to actually doing it.

[Citizen X]

We voted on that back when I was in control of the OE and came to the conclusion it can be unlocked if you want it to be.

I just never got around to actually doing it.

Super. One of these days, when the opportunity arises I would like to have it unlocked.

Speaking of fixing things. The colonial region of Libanon and Syria should have a colonial penetration of 75% at least in these regions and the colonial status should be colony for the turkish where other nations should have zero penetration and no status. This doesn't seem to be the case. Can it be fixed?

[lukasberger]

Super. One of these days, when the opportunity arises I would like to have it unlocked.

I would guess it'll get unlocked once you figure out how to make a script to do so. We're not that great at making scripts for our own nations sometimes, so it'll likely take a while until someone will make one for you.

Speaking of fixing things. The colonial region of Libanon and Syria should have a colonial penetration of 75% at least in these regions and the colonial status should be colony for the turkish where other nations should have zero penetration and no status. This doesn't seem to be the case. Can it be fixed?

That happened during the war with GB, and since I had bigger things to worry about at the time I never bothered with it.

Should be a simple fix, doubt it will be a problem.

Again, we'll just need to come up with a script. It'll be faster if you can do it, if not then it'll still get done, but will just take a little longer.

[Citizen X]

I would guess it'll get unlocked once you figure out how to make a script to do so. We're not that great at making scripts for our own nations sometimes, so it'll likely take a while until someone will make one for you.



That happened during the war with GB, and since I had bigger things to worry about at the time I never bothered with it.

Should be a simple fix, doubt it will be a problem.

Again, we'll just need to come up with a script. It'll be faster if you can do it, if not then it'll still get done, but will just take a little longer.

Thanks. It doesnt urge me.
I don't know scripting at all but might look into it. As I look deeper into the game and the status of OE, naturally odd things start to spring into the eyes.
Is there any scripting compendium for PON anywhere?

[Ojodeaguila]

1. I think that the game will be more realistic and less arcade without the coal structure limit, there is no a nation with coal reserves and technology that can't use his reserves.

2. I consider the economical system of the game like an Arcade system and not a simulation.

[Kensai]

Aha, the Jeni Ceri Corps. It could be done, but we need the following information: size, type, model, experience attained. After that we could destroy and respawn the unit in Constantinople. A scripting wiki can be found here. I suggest you start doing it yourself and I could help you on the way. It is always a plus for players to learn the scripting commands of AGEOD games. It can become handy in other titles too.

Not worried about the numbers going negative since I'm going to have to buy a boatload of replacement chits as soon as I get the manpower added.

Well, it's actually done slowly to avoid giving unfair advantages to the nations with returning POWs. They should not coming all back at once and available either. Perhaps the script resides in the old thread in Paradox forums. We had done it several times in the past so I am pretty sure it's somewhere there.

1. I think that the game will be more realistic and less arcade without the coal structure limit, there is no a nation with coal reserves and technology that can't use his reserves.

2. I consider the economical system of the game like an Arcade system and not a simulation.

There is no way to abstract the historical capacity of a nation to build/recruit structures and military formations other than the "pools". It is a necessary evil. If you try to find ways to justify "why this should be happening" then you can simply say you were overruled at parliament level or by your nation's high command. The game has certain soft and hard rules to be more playable, competitive, and fluid. If you take this out you kill the certain historical realism (in potential, not actual) as Liberia can have the same (say naval) possibilities as Great Britain, something that is plain silly. We should not touch these settings as at design level the developers already balanced it with various decisions: for example Russia has the ability to field huge armies, Great Britain a superior navy, Japan has some aggressive Generals, etc.

There are certain historical settings that must be in: historical accuracy in attrition (actually we set that later ON after some ridiculous results with huge field armies), structure pools on, force pools on, and last but not least "extended claims" off. Actually, extended claims is kind of at the verge cause our house rules allow certain out-of-game arrangements.

[lukasberger]

Well, it's actually done slowly to avoid giving unfair advantages to the nations with returning POWs. They should not coming all back at once and available either. Perhaps the script resides in the old thread in Paradox forums. We had done it several times in the past so I am pretty sure it's somewhere there.

I don't think advantage enters into this. Austria is at peace and will hopefully remain so for a long, long time. So I don't think it really matters if they come back all at once or over time. But if it's customary to do it over time, then that's fine with me. However I can't find that script at the Paradox forums either.

[lukasberger]

If you take this out you kill the certain historical realism (in potential, not actual) as Liberia can have the same (say naval) possibilities as Great Britain, something that is plain silly. We should not touch these settings as at design level the developers already balanced it with various decisions: for example Russia has the ability to field huge armies, Great Britain a superior navy, Japan has some aggressive Generals, etc.

That's kinda a silly statement to be honest. Liberia doesn't and never would have the same potential to GB as it doesn't have the same access to raw material. That's really the limiting factor, access to raw materials. I suspect the structure pools are more meant for single player games than multi so that a player doesn't overpower his economy compared to that of the rest of the world.

And it's not like we'd be overruled at a parliament level. Everyone needs coal, getting more would be a parliament's top priority right now.

[Kensai]

Check this out.

That's kinda a silly statement to be honest. Liberia doesn't and never would have the same potential to GB as it doesn't have the same access to raw material. That's really the limiting factor, access to raw materials. I suspect the structure pools are more meant for single player games than multi so that a player doesn't overpower his economy compared to that of the rest of the world.

And it's not like we'd be overruled at a parliament level. Everyone needs coal, getting more would be a parliament's top priority right now.

If the problem is a matter of "access to resources" then the bottleneck is already in the game and we have nothing to do about it. There is no need to even change this. But the pools is a matter of POLICY (priorities of a nation) and this can only be abstracted by structure and force pools. For example, the British Victorian policy of having the largest navy after the second and third powers combined can only be abstracted with pools. Otherwise you could argue that even the F1 should change (for example focus policy: regional or worldwide).

I've said it many times: you are NOT the ruler of the nation. You are some guy that makes them speak and act. The rulers are still the dudes you see in F1 with all their vices, virtues, and other attributes.

---
Regarding the so called "coal crisis" (wonder how is that when prices are still relatively low and A-H has some 400 reserved) if I were the one roleplaying I would say that the Prime Minister of your nation got silenced by various lobbies as the coal mining sector is already in overexpansion and they desired a more harmonic expansion in other productive endeavors.

[lukasberger]

Check this out.

Amended the script according to this template. So now it'll run four times with the numbers all divided by 4, as closely as was possible.

[Citizen X]

SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Syria
StartEvent = Protector of Syria|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Syria|NULL

Actions
SelectFaction = $GBR
SelectRegion = $Mugla
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Burdur
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Ankara
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Kilikya
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Urfa
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Syria
ChgColonialPen = -101
SelectRegion = $Rutbah
ChgColonialPen = -101
SetColStatus = 800;-1

SelectFaction = $TUR
SelectRegion = $Syria
ChgColonialPen = 85
SelectRegion = $Aleppo
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Dayr
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Rutbah
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Hims
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Liban
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectRegion = $Palmyra
ChgColonialPen = 75
SelectFaction = $TUR
SetColStatus = 800;2
SelectRegion = $Latakia
SetColonialPen = 101

EndEvent

The above script hopefully settles the colonial situation in Syria.