[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[Jim-NC]

When you purchase things (like ship construction), the steel is deducted immediately, this is why the top line shows -222. At this point, you have -222 steel in your nation. As to how much you are purchasing, hover over the 455 figure, and it will say "transactions balance at turn -1 = x" The x is the actual amount of steel you were able to purchase. It is much less than 455 (If you hover over the lower figure (the -796) it will tell you what you are spending your steel on.

FYI - 2 battleship squadrons are 600 steel (300 apiece). This is probably a large part of your difficulties.

[lukasberger]

When you purchase things (like ship construction), the steel is deducted immediately, this is why the top line shows -222. At this point, you have -222 steel in your nation. As to how much you are purchasing, hover over the 455 figure, and it will say "transactions balance at turn -1 = x" The x is the actual amount of steel you were able to purchase. It is much less than 455 (If you hover over the lower figure (the -796) it will tell you what you are spending your steel on.

FYI - 2 battleship squadrons are 600 steel (300 apiece). This is probably a large part of your difficulties.

Thanks. I do see that the transactions are around 200 less than ordered.

The battleships are only ironclads , which should only be 100 steel apiece according to the tooltip. Is that wrong, and it's actually 300? If so I can see where my difficulties came from, but not why the cost would keep being deducted for multiple turns. As mentioned they were purchased two turns ago, not this turn, so shouldn't still be using steel as it's only deducted the turn the ships are ordered.

I'll see what happens next turn. Am trying to buy the entire worlds supply again this turn, so the balance should break even at least by next turn.

[nemethand]

I have noticed that a lot of structures appear to flip after a peace. For some reason, it appears that the game engine "captures" (I am not sure what term to use) former enemy structures in your lands as part of peace. When I was Spain, and fought Austria, they got my tradeposts in Arabia when we declared peace, and only when we declared peace (they were scripted back to me). Now, the Russians have gained a mine after peace is declared. As Spain, when I had the phony war with America, I lost a tradepost after peace. I have further noticed that the structure is not necessarily captured during the war. In fact sometimes it is not captured at all.

Thx for the explanation, Jim. It actually may make sense. I have only found it interesting that the structures were NOT seized during the war.

And, for the record, Russia has not win but lost a mine in Austria. Which she (I) still claim(s) back.

[Kensai]

Structures are captured as a probability of bad relations. War has nothing to do with it other than setting that probability to the highest possible (-100). This is, in theory, the way it should work in a numerical way. Nonetheless, when you enter an enemy region you should seize all assets as long as you are not allied with a nation that has claim on said region.

[Sir Garnet]

Seizing assets does not work as described. Brazil has a site in China during the war that Joe advises disappeared from the map when peace was concluded between the two countries. (Evil Is Major feature at work again? Don't know.) Which should go back. The Chinese administration has concurred that it should be Brazilian. Then we see if it flips peacefully. Note the other Brazilian-built site, at Peking, flipped as desired to China early on so did not need to be transferred. (The deal was Brazil built 2 sites and kept 1.)

Both Belgian sites in Brazil flipped when relations fell just under 25 however. Will need to rescript those back soon too when there is time.

[Kensai]

Disappearing structures when there is a change of hands is almost always a CP thing. If you don't have enough of it to support the newly-acquired structures you lose them. There is no need to attribute every unexplained problem of the game in the IsMajor setting. Do not worry over this.

[Jim-NC]

Thanks. I do see that the transactions are around 200 less than ordered.

The battleships are only ironclads , which should only be 100 steel apiece according to the tooltip. Is that wrong, and it's actually 300? If so I can see where my difficulties came from, but not why the cost would keep being deducted for multiple turns. As mentioned they were purchased two turns ago, not this turn, so shouldn't still be using steel as it's only deducted the turn the ships are ordered.

I'll see what happens next turn. Am trying to buy the entire worlds supply again this turn, so the balance should break even at least by next turn.

Sorry for the confusion. Steel Battleships cost 300 steel a squadron. You had stated you were building battleships (I assumed it was the 300 per squadron kind). You had meant Ironclad (which is cheaper in terms of steel). If you want, I can look at your turn to see I can determine anything (I will need the password PM'd to me).

[Kensai]

I have adapted Philippe's script request for the sale of ships. For tonight:

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Strait of Dover
StartEvent = Sale of Brazilian Ships to Netherlands (1874)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Strait of Dover|NULL

Actions

SelectFaction = $BRZ
  SelectSubUnits = Region $The Channel;FactionTags BRZ;Families $famTransportship
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Holland
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Duits 2e Vervoer Eskader
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Tra3
  SUFlavorName = Holland|Hector|Nederland|Prins Hendrik|Prinses Elisabeth|Willem Prins van Oranje|Celebes|Gede
  SetLevel = 3
  SetName = 2e Vervoer Eskadron
  Apply

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Holland
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Duits 1e Vervoer Eskader
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Tra3
  SUFlavorName = Banda|Grothius|Java|King Willem II|Nias|Oranje|Nordam|Rijndam
  SetLevel = 3
  SetName = 1e Vervoer Eskadron
  Apply

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Western Europe Maritime Trade
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  Entranch = 0
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Merchant Fleet #6
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Mer4
  SUFlavorName = Java|Sumatra|Bali|Borneo|Celebes|New Guinea
  SetName = Brazil Line
  Apply

EndEvent

Ah, the elegance of the scripted language. Since merchant ships and transports belong to the same unit family, a single command is needed to de-spawn them!

[lukasberger]

Sorry for the confusion. Steel Battleships cost 300 steel a squadron. You had stated you were building battleships (I assumed it was the 300 per squadron kind). You had meant Ironclad (which is cheaper in terms of steel). If you want, I can look at your turn to see I can determine anything (I will need the password PM'd to me).

Thanks, much appreciated . Password sent.

[Jim-NC]

The ships are messed up (the 2 ironclad battleships you just purchased). Cancel the purchase before the turn is crunched. Then you can add them back in at the normal costs. I did not crunch a turn to see if the prices for the new ships went up as well. The game engine is charging you for some ship type I have not yet seen. (it is above steel battleships). The engine is charging too much coal, mfg goods, money and steel. You only noticed the steel costs.

[Jim-NC]

Please update the details.txt in the Drop box. I know that China and Austria are not up to date. I also know that Persia has a different handle on these forums.

[nemethand]

Could the host pls run the following script (return of a gems' mine in Prague)

Code: Select all


SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Prague
StartEvent = Return of Russian Gem's mine (Aug 1874)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Prague|NULL
Actions

SelectFaction = $AUS
SelectRegion = $Boehmen
RemoveStructure = ByDefUID $Gems2;RANDOM;SINGLEFAC
SelectFaction = $RUS
SelectRegion = $Boehmen
CreateStruc
SetType = $Gems2
SetName = Bohemian Finest
Apply

SelectFaction = $RUS
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;-1
EndEvent



Please, kindly add the above script then, too.

[Kensai]

Early September 1874
That script misses the AUS Diplo consumption. lukas, btw, I saw your updated orders, I will crunch with them. And Savoyard's made it in as well.

[lukasberger]

Early September 1874
That script misses the AUS Diplo consumption. lukas, btw, I saw your updated orders, I will crunch with them.

Thanks! Those wrong battleship costs were killing me.

[nemethand]

Early September 1874
That script misses the AUS Diplo consumption.

Why should there be any diplo consumption for AUS? AUS gains nothing.

Like the script you posted; there aren't any diplo cost there.

[Kensai]

If I have posted a script without two-way consumption of diplomats then I erred. The reason I had proposed for the diplo consumption in the first place was for it to be an anti-abuse (too many requests) deterrent. Who gains or not gains has nothing to do with it, it is the fact that you make an out of game arrangement. Isn't it cool we abstract it as the two sides approaching each other to "speak" on a complex matter?

Sorry for the delay, guys, I had to recrunch the turn because the Brazilian-Dutch script again failed.

[nemethand]

If I have posted a script without two-way consumption of diplomats then I erred. The reason I had proposed for the diplo consumption in the first place was for it to be an anti-abuse (too many requests) deterrent. Who gains or not gains has nothing to do with it, it is the fact that you make an out of game arrangement. Isn't it cool we abstract it as the two sides approaching each other to "speak" on a complex matter?

Yes, I understand the rationale for a cost in resources. But in case of "in-game" arrangements, treaties it is always and only the proposing side who pays in (consumes) diplomats.

Anyway, added a diplo also for the Austrian side:

Code: Select all


SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Prague
StartEvent = Return of Russian Gem's mine (Aug 1874)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Prague|NULL
Actions

SelectFaction = $AUS
SelectRegion = $Boehmen
RemoveStructure = ByDefUID $Gems2;RANDOM;SINGLEFAC
SelectFaction = $RUS
SelectRegion = $Boehmen
CreateStruc
SetType = $Gems2
SetName = Bohemian Finest
Apply

SelectFaction = $RUS
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;-1
SelectFaction = $AUS
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;-1
EndEvent



[Kensai]

That's why I said complex, out-of-game-engine arrangements. Btw, I have already corrected and run it, you should see its effects in this turn already. But I wonder if the Austrians seize it again next turn what you would say... rerun it?!

[bjfagan]

Kensai, is your computer uploading the new turn?

[nemethand]

That's why I said complex, out-of-game-engine arrangements. Btw, I have already corrected and run it, you should see its effects in this turn already. But I wonder if the Austrians seize it again next turn what you would say... rerun it?!

Thx. Obviously, I have saved a lot of diplomats for that purpose. :-)

Kensai, half of he .trn files are missing - can you check to upload them, please?

[lukasberger]

Rebuilt those ironclad battleships Jim discovered were charging too much.

Same problem.

They looked fine the turn I ordered them, the correct price was deducted, but next turn my steel, my money etc reflect significantly higher prices. I think somethings wrong with the changes that Pocus made to the ship models, so that although the ironclads look ok when being built , after construction the game charges for a higher level model.

This is kind of a big deal.

Even worse, of the three squadrons I ordered, one just won't delete, so I can't recover the costs.

Has anyone else noticed an issue with the charges for ironclad battleships?

[lukasberger]

That's why I said complex, out-of-game-engine arrangements. Btw, I have already corrected and run it, you should see its effects in this turn already. But I wonder if the Austrians seize it again next turn what you would say... rerun it?!

Guess what?

[Sir Garnet]

The transfer of ships from Brazil to the Netherlands is not a sale. The transports were captured and are being returned.

[Kensai]

Sir Garnet, I will do it tonight. I do not know what went wrong with the despawn command.

Code: Select all

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Strait of Dover
StartEvent = Sale of Brazilian Ships to Netherlands (1874)|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Strait of Dover|NULL

Actions

SelectFaction = $BRZ
  SelectSubUnits = Region $Strait of Dover;FactionTags BRZ;Families $famTransportship
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill

SelectFaction = $BRZ
  SelectSubUnits = Region $Strait of Dover;FactionTags HOL;Families $famTransportship
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill

SelectFaction = $BRZ
  SelectSubUnits = Region $The Channel;FactionTags HOL;Families $famTransportship
  AlterCuSubUnit = ApplytoList;Kill

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Holland
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Duits 2e Vervoer Eskader
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Tra3
  SUFlavorName = Holland|Hector|Nederland|Prins Hendrik|Prinses Elisabeth|Willem Prins van Oranje|Celebes|Gede
  SetLevel = 3
  SetName = 2e Vervoer Eskadron
  Apply

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Holland
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Duits 1e Vervoer Eskader
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Tra3
  SUFlavorName = Banda|Grothius|Java|King Willem II|Nias|Oranje|Nordam|Rijndam
  SetLevel = 3
  SetName = 1e Vervoer Eskadron
  Apply

SelectFaction = $HOL
SelectRegion = $Western Europe Maritime Trade
  CreateGroup
  Posture = $Defensive
  SetKind = $Nav
  Entranch = 0
  FixType = 0
  SetName = Merchant Fleet #6
  Apply
  CreateUnit
  SetType = $uni_HOL_Mer4
  SUFlavorName = Java|Sumatra|Bali|Borneo|Celebes|New Guinea
  SetName = Brazil Line
  Apply

EndEvent

Edit: corrected and added

[Ojodeaguila]

Canned Food and Furniture Factories

It seems to me that this buildings have a very low productiveness and we can increase its productiveness maintain them with less productiveness than the manufactured goods factories.

The canned food factories are usually in red numbers even when the price of manufactured goods is 5, and the situation of the Furniture Factories are similar.

Changing it we make other economical ways possible specially for the nations with less coal and iron.

[Boernes]

They are less productive than pure manufactured good factories for a reason. They require different and less input and thus are more useful for minor countries.

[Kensai]

Ojo, the F11 gain-loss screen is almost useless anyway. Late September 1874

[Ojodeaguila]

Ojo, the F11 gain-loss screen is almost useless anyway. Late September 1874

I know it but now this factories are useless no one use this factories, I think this factories must have a role.

[Boernes]

They have a role, and they are not useless. They present a cheaper way to create mfd. goods for minor countries or those with excessive wood / prepared food stockpiles.

Just because they are not profitable to you at the moment doesn't mean they are to others.

[lukasberger]

Any thoughts on the excessive charges for ironclad battleships?

Haven't seen any comments to indicate whether others have this problem or it's an Austria only issue.