Turn 24 (continued) - April 282
... Meanwhile in Rome ... A loaded supply wagon from Perusia did indeed manage to sip past Britomaris' siege lines, in Passive/Avoid Battle mode, bringing in a month’s supply of food, showing that it IS doable:
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Another loaded wagon is now ready in Capua, to make the red ball run into Rome this turn. As long as I can keep managing to evade his army like this, I should be able to keep this means of resupply going on indefinitely.
And we will spend some of our newfound hoard of EP, doing a Pax Romana in Volterrae, another Enslave and Plunder (my favorite option) in Ariminium, and Subversions in Boii territory at Placentia and Felsina.
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jimwinsor2
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 25 – May 282
There was a slave revolt in Ariminium this turn (thanks to my Enslave and Plunder) which took the unwalled and undefended town. I half expected this, but I thought since my armies were due to enter the province anyways ... well, my armies entered, but unfortunately there was no battle. It looks like I will have to detach a force to my Preator (who is my only activated leader this turn ... again) and deal with the situation.
Supplies get through to Rome again. I wonder if the Gauls are even aware I'm resupplying the city this way? If not it's going to come as a bit of a shock to them when they realize it ...
A couple of other funny things about this Rome siege: 1) Britomaris' army isn't starving either, as far as I can tell. Apparently being a Supply Ranger and in a Rich province like Rome means he's entirely able to live off the land. And 2) still no Dictator option?
Biatex the Boii does not move, but I notice he is joined by the Etruscan leader Lucumon, who almost gets captured while sneaking through Ariminium.
My options are limited this turn. Both my consuls are inactive (again) so I have no desire for offensive battles. And the funny thing is, we can't even attack the Boii this turn, even if we wanted to, because the ZOC from the slave unit prevents the Roman army from moving to the Boii controlled regions just to the north. Most inconvenient.
I guess I'll move my army to Perusia this turn, a nice central location, and see what the Gauls do.
We do get some nice new options though, all of which will be taken:
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There was a slave revolt in Ariminium this turn (thanks to my Enslave and Plunder) which took the unwalled and undefended town. I half expected this, but I thought since my armies were due to enter the province anyways ... well, my armies entered, but unfortunately there was no battle. It looks like I will have to detach a force to my Preator (who is my only activated leader this turn ... again) and deal with the situation.
Supplies get through to Rome again. I wonder if the Gauls are even aware I'm resupplying the city this way? If not it's going to come as a bit of a shock to them when they realize it ...
A couple of other funny things about this Rome siege: 1) Britomaris' army isn't starving either, as far as I can tell. Apparently being a Supply Ranger and in a Rich province like Rome means he's entirely able to live off the land. And 2) still no Dictator option?
Biatex the Boii does not move, but I notice he is joined by the Etruscan leader Lucumon, who almost gets captured while sneaking through Ariminium.
My options are limited this turn. Both my consuls are inactive (again) so I have no desire for offensive battles. And the funny thing is, we can't even attack the Boii this turn, even if we wanted to, because the ZOC from the slave unit prevents the Roman army from moving to the Boii controlled regions just to the north. Most inconvenient.
I guess I'll move my army to Perusia this turn, a nice central location, and see what the Gauls do.
We do get some nice new options though, all of which will be taken:
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 26 – June 282
We scattered the slaves away from Ariminium. And in Rome, Britomaris may be on to my supply scheme. He captured an outgoing empty supply wagon in Rome:
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... but a full one managed to get through from Perusia. It seems like a cavalry patrol was sent by Britomaris south to Casinum, and stumbled across the wagons trying to leave Rome.
He must be on to my covert resupply operation finally, and set this cavalry out on Attack posture to catch the wagons. Well then, that means it's time to end the siege of Rome! Both consuls are activated. So, my better general Luscinius will take the vast bulk of the Roman army, 6 Roman and 6 Allied legions, and target Britomaris. The force has close to 2500 power, and Rome is clear terrain; Roman morale is 135, the Gauls 72. If I lose here, I have no excuse (except leadership, both consuls have a 1 attack rating ... but what can I do, I have to use the tools at my disposal).
Papus will take a cavalry force around the south to reclaim some empty provinces, including Casinum.
If I beat Britomaris ... heck, even if I lose to Britomaris, I don't see how he can get replacements, as I've conquered his entire homeland. And just finished resettling them with Romans this turn.
Meanwhile in the north, Biatex does not budge from Felsina, while my new Venetii allies activate, led by Dux Adrianos, a 3-2-2 leader who's Diplomatic (+1 CP) bur Strategucally Indecisive (-1 initiative). Maybe the Venetii can somehow keep the Boii tied down while I deal with the south? We will see. Notice those "Lantriculii" units I've detached from the Venetian's leader's army? Those are Irregulars, and thanks to being in Passive mode now have a hide value of 7. Lets see what kind of mischief we can get into with those ...
Option-wise, we send another embassy to the Cenomani (oh boy, it would be nice if they joined me), we buy the Venetii some nice new units, and since I'm expecting a fair amount of blood and death this turn, another round of Requisitions in the south to buy cash for replacements. And we re-hire the Praetor (who's term was up this turn).
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We scattered the slaves away from Ariminium. And in Rome, Britomaris may be on to my supply scheme. He captured an outgoing empty supply wagon in Rome:
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... but a full one managed to get through from Perusia. It seems like a cavalry patrol was sent by Britomaris south to Casinum, and stumbled across the wagons trying to leave Rome.
He must be on to my covert resupply operation finally, and set this cavalry out on Attack posture to catch the wagons. Well then, that means it's time to end the siege of Rome! Both consuls are activated. So, my better general Luscinius will take the vast bulk of the Roman army, 6 Roman and 6 Allied legions, and target Britomaris. The force has close to 2500 power, and Rome is clear terrain; Roman morale is 135, the Gauls 72. If I lose here, I have no excuse (except leadership, both consuls have a 1 attack rating ... but what can I do, I have to use the tools at my disposal).
Papus will take a cavalry force around the south to reclaim some empty provinces, including Casinum.
If I beat Britomaris ... heck, even if I lose to Britomaris, I don't see how he can get replacements, as I've conquered his entire homeland. And just finished resettling them with Romans this turn.
Meanwhile in the north, Biatex does not budge from Felsina, while my new Venetii allies activate, led by Dux Adrianos, a 3-2-2 leader who's Diplomatic (+1 CP) bur Strategucally Indecisive (-1 initiative). Maybe the Venetii can somehow keep the Boii tied down while I deal with the south? We will see. Notice those "Lantriculii" units I've detached from the Venetian's leader's army? Those are Irregulars, and thanks to being in Passive mode now have a hide value of 7. Lets see what kind of mischief we can get into with those ...
Option-wise, we send another embassy to the Cenomani (oh boy, it would be nice if they joined me), we buy the Venetii some nice new units, and since I'm expecting a fair amount of blood and death this turn, another round of Requisitions in the south to buy cash for replacements. And we re-hire the Praetor (who's term was up this turn).
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 27 – July 282
So, I threw the entire Roman army at Britomaris, 12 legions in total. And was it enough?
Nope!
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Sigh. What's left of Luscinus' army retreats to Spoletium. I don't know what to do now. Logic tells me there is no way he's able to take replacements, deep in enemy territory like this, whereas I can replace.
However, both consuls are inactive again. So, not much we can do this turn, it would seem.
Meanwhile, up north the Boii march in and take Ariminium. In addition to the 9 morale I lost at Rome, I lose another 5 here.
We did manage to sneak our Venetii irregulars over to Placentia. We are not strong enough to assault, but we can start a mildly annoying siege there. The rest of the Venetii under Adrianos will march on Felsina.
In other news: The new Roman ships are ready, so they'll sail north and set up a proper blockade of Populonia. And there's another slave revolt at Capua.
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So, I threw the entire Roman army at Britomaris, 12 legions in total. And was it enough?
Nope!
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Sigh. What's left of Luscinus' army retreats to Spoletium. I don't know what to do now. Logic tells me there is no way he's able to take replacements, deep in enemy territory like this, whereas I can replace.
However, both consuls are inactive again. So, not much we can do this turn, it would seem.
Meanwhile, up north the Boii march in and take Ariminium. In addition to the 9 morale I lost at Rome, I lose another 5 here.
We did manage to sneak our Venetii irregulars over to Placentia. We are not strong enough to assault, but we can start a mildly annoying siege there. The rest of the Venetii under Adrianos will march on Felsina.
In other news: The new Roman ships are ready, so they'll sail north and set up a proper blockade of Populonia. And there's another slave revolt at Capua.
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 28 – August 282
The recuparitve powers of Rome in the game are astounding. Luscinius' army, which just two turn ago suffered that horrific pounding under the walls of Rome, is back to over 2300 power rating. Like I mentioned before, I had plenty of replacements ready, and one turn of rest was all that was needed to largely rebuild. Nine legions replaced one destroyed element each, and all damaged elements are now fully repaired. Luscinius Good Army Adminstrator trait no doubt helped here too. A couple legions which got hit bad are still at half strength, element-wise, but still I can't complain.
In comparison, my army is at 5 green dots on the base, while Britomaris is at 5 yellow dots.
Rome's red ball express is back in action. Supply wagons went in and out without incident last turn, so it looks as if I needn't have worried about Rome's safety (and had that battle). There are only three turns left in this game. So, one more successful wagon exchange and I think I'll be in the clear as far as Rome is concerned.
Biatex' Boiis move down a space and siege Sena Gallica. Fortunately, my colonization option repaired the walls to level 2. With only three turns left there is a good chance they will hold out, especially if I can slip wagons to and fro there too. Still, I need to take Ariminium to the north, which is a victory city. And the fastest way is through Sena Gallica.
Both consuls are activated. So, this turn we see how tough Biatex' Boiis are ...
In other news ... the Roman navy finally has Populonia blockaded, and the Venetii are sieging both Boii towns. So all those sieges are active.
Oh, and this diplomatic option pops up. LOL, yeah Rome is besieged and beset upon by Senones and Boii, and someone in the senate thinks this is a good idea right now. Hm, yeah, I think I'll pass ...
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The recuparitve powers of Rome in the game are astounding. Luscinius' army, which just two turn ago suffered that horrific pounding under the walls of Rome, is back to over 2300 power rating. Like I mentioned before, I had plenty of replacements ready, and one turn of rest was all that was needed to largely rebuild. Nine legions replaced one destroyed element each, and all damaged elements are now fully repaired. Luscinius Good Army Adminstrator trait no doubt helped here too. A couple legions which got hit bad are still at half strength, element-wise, but still I can't complain.
In comparison, my army is at 5 green dots on the base, while Britomaris is at 5 yellow dots.
Rome's red ball express is back in action. Supply wagons went in and out without incident last turn, so it looks as if I needn't have worried about Rome's safety (and had that battle). There are only three turns left in this game. So, one more successful wagon exchange and I think I'll be in the clear as far as Rome is concerned.
Biatex' Boiis move down a space and siege Sena Gallica. Fortunately, my colonization option repaired the walls to level 2. With only three turns left there is a good chance they will hold out, especially if I can slip wagons to and fro there too. Still, I need to take Ariminium to the north, which is a victory city. And the fastest way is through Sena Gallica.
Both consuls are activated. So, this turn we see how tough Biatex' Boiis are ...
In other news ... the Roman navy finally has Populonia blockaded, and the Venetii are sieging both Boii towns. So all those sieges are active.
Oh, and this diplomatic option pops up. LOL, yeah Rome is besieged and beset upon by Senones and Boii, and someone in the senate thinks this is a good idea right now. Hm, yeah, I think I'll pass ...
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 29 – September 282
We battle Biatex this turn. Unfortunately he seems to have the same genetic makeup at Britomaris, so he hands me what has been an all too common phenomenon this game, a total crushing defeat:
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It mystifies me what it will take to win a major battle in this game. I had complete numerical and power superiority, I don't know what else I could have done.
Since the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, from this point forward we will stop being insane. Sena Gallica will be secured by stealth. A supply wagon along with an allied cavalry unit will slip into Passive mode and reinforce Sena Gallica, in the same manner I've been keeping Rome supplied; this should secure this victory city for me. I need the cavalry in there as militia steps don't count for control purposes.
Dux Adrianos will leave a small force sieging Felsina, and move south to assault Ariminium. It looks like he built an archer unit there as a garrison. After we take it that will secure that victory city.
Roman forces will from here on out stop engaging in battles with invincible Gallic armies. I think I'll send half to siege Felsina, and half to Populonia (I'm not sure if I need either of these cities to win, so I'm just being on the safe side here).
By the way, Placentia in Boii territory surrendered this turn, but I forgot that irregulars can't capture cities. So Adrianos will send a cavalry over to occupy it. Hopefully no new militia will spawn.
Rome had no difficulty exchanging wagons this turn, again. It will not fall. There are only two turns left.
We also get another option to send ambassadors to the Cenomani, although at this point I doubt they'll be in time for the party.
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We battle Biatex this turn. Unfortunately he seems to have the same genetic makeup at Britomaris, so he hands me what has been an all too common phenomenon this game, a total crushing defeat:
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It mystifies me what it will take to win a major battle in this game. I had complete numerical and power superiority, I don't know what else I could have done.
Since the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, from this point forward we will stop being insane. Sena Gallica will be secured by stealth. A supply wagon along with an allied cavalry unit will slip into Passive mode and reinforce Sena Gallica, in the same manner I've been keeping Rome supplied; this should secure this victory city for me. I need the cavalry in there as militia steps don't count for control purposes.
Dux Adrianos will leave a small force sieging Felsina, and move south to assault Ariminium. It looks like he built an archer unit there as a garrison. After we take it that will secure that victory city.
Roman forces will from here on out stop engaging in battles with invincible Gallic armies. I think I'll send half to siege Felsina, and half to Populonia (I'm not sure if I need either of these cities to win, so I'm just being on the safe side here).
By the way, Placentia in Boii territory surrendered this turn, but I forgot that irregulars can't capture cities. So Adrianos will send a cavalry over to occupy it. Hopefully no new militia will spawn.
Rome had no difficulty exchanging wagons this turn, again. It will not fall. There are only two turns left.
We also get another option to send ambassadors to the Cenomani, although at this point I doubt they'll be in time for the party.
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 30 – October 282
I think I found a bug this turn. Dux Adrianos was ordered to Assault this turn, but when he arrived in Ariminium the Assault posture was cancelled because, according to the events, "... there was no breach in the enemy structure." Which is true, there was no breach ... because there was no wall. Ariminium is a level 0 fort!
Oh well, we will try to assault again this turn. I hope this bug does not cost me the game!
Other sieges by both sides are proceeding at Felsina, Populonia, Sena Gallica and Rome. And sadly, Placentia ... another Boii militia force spawned there before my cavalry could arrive. Sigh ... I think I'll send an allied legion over to assault it, we can't waste anymore time at this point.
Supplies and troops sneak into both Rome and Sena Gallica this turn again. I'm certain now Sena Gallica will hold out, as well as Rome.
It is remotely possible I could still win this game by winning all my sieges, and the Gauls still futilely maintaining theirs ...
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I think I found a bug this turn. Dux Adrianos was ordered to Assault this turn, but when he arrived in Ariminium the Assault posture was cancelled because, according to the events, "... there was no breach in the enemy structure." Which is true, there was no breach ... because there was no wall. Ariminium is a level 0 fort!
Oh well, we will try to assault again this turn. I hope this bug does not cost me the game!
Other sieges by both sides are proceeding at Felsina, Populonia, Sena Gallica and Rome. And sadly, Placentia ... another Boii militia force spawned there before my cavalry could arrive. Sigh ... I think I'll send an allied legion over to assault it, we can't waste anymore time at this point.
Supplies and troops sneak into both Rome and Sena Gallica this turn again. I'm certain now Sena Gallica will hold out, as well as Rome.
It is remotely possible I could still win this game by winning all my sieges, and the Gauls still futilely maintaining theirs ...
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jimwinsor2
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Turn 31 – November 282 (FINAL TURN)
Placentia surrendered (again, this time for good) and Adrianos (finally) storms Ariminium ... but it is not enough. One victory city, Felsina, holds out (as does Populonia) and we get a minor defeat:
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Here's the final F7:
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I'm not sure if I needed just Felsina to win, or Populonia too (we needed to "keep" all of Etruria, according to the tooltip victory conditions at start), but either way it was close. We got a breach on Populonia, but it came too late for me to launch an assault. Felsina could not have held out much longer with proper Roman legions conducting the siege.
In hindsight I should not have wasted time attacking at Rome and Sena Gallica in those last two bloody and futile battles, and just focused on taking those Boii cities with the Romans earlier. Oh well!
This was a great game and congratulations to Alex aka bob. on a great win!
We have plans for a rematch, with him as Pyrrhus. Considering what he did to me with Celtic chariots, I shudder to think of the treatment I'm going to get when I run into his elephants ...
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Placentia surrendered (again, this time for good) and Adrianos (finally) storms Ariminium ... but it is not enough. One victory city, Felsina, holds out (as does Populonia) and we get a minor defeat:
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Here's the final F7:
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I'm not sure if I needed just Felsina to win, or Populonia too (we needed to "keep" all of Etruria, according to the tooltip victory conditions at start), but either way it was close. We got a breach on Populonia, but it came too late for me to launch an assault. Felsina could not have held out much longer with proper Roman legions conducting the siege.
In hindsight I should not have wasted time attacking at Rome and Sena Gallica in those last two bloody and futile battles, and just focused on taking those Boii cities with the Romans earlier. Oh well!
This was a great game and congratulations to Alex aka bob. on a great win!
We have plans for a rematch, with him as Pyrrhus. Considering what he did to me with Celtic chariots, I shudder to think of the treatment I'm going to get when I run into his elephants ...
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jimwinsor2
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Franciscus
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jimwinsor2
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Franciscus
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jimwinsor2
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Yeah, I was playing under the assumption that VP were irrelevant in this scenario, because of the stated victory conditions at the start of the game.
For Rome they read: "Rome wins by controlling all of Ager Gallicus (Gallic land of Italy) and keeping all of Samnium and Etruria."
And for the Senones they read:
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In other words, I had to win the by stated conditions, or I would lose. There was no win by VP possible ... or at least that's how I interpreted it.
For Rome they read: "Rome wins by controlling all of Ager Gallicus (Gallic land of Italy) and keeping all of Samnium and Etruria."
And for the Senones they read:
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In other words, I had to win the by stated conditions, or I would lose. There was no win by VP possible ... or at least that's how I interpreted it.
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Very interesting to read! I actually didn't know you can move supply into a besieged fort, thought defensive was enough to prevent it. This was my first game ever against a human so it was definitely not the only mistake I made. EG I noticed that if I had moved into Arretium turn 1 I could have activated Boii instantly! Venetii could have been easily captured and then my army wouldve been nearly double the size! I really have to say this scenario seems very very hard for the Romans... maybe it would be better if Britomaris had less starting funds so the Romans could win a battle of attrition. I think Senones start with 1000 denarii which is just an absurdly high amount, I mean how many men I lost... 120.000 or so and I never really ran out of money! Additionally I could sell Roman prisoners giving me even more money.
Apart from that Britomaris army is really ridiculously strong anyway and that's what saved me.
Apart from that Britomaris army is really ridiculously strong anyway and that's what saved me.
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jimwinsor2
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Yeah there's a couple ways to resupply a landlocked city under siege I've noticed. One way is the Passive/Avoid Battle method. It seems to me the best way to counter this would be to have a cavalry or two in a separate stack, in Offensive mode, to intercept. But even that is not automatic, I think.
Another way a city can get resupplied, and I've seen the AI do this, is to send in a sufficiently large relief force to do battle ... with some extra wagons. Now, if you win the battle and drive off the besiegers, great. Problem solved.
If you lose the battle but do not get routed (ie, take extra after-battle casualties), I *think* what happens is that you do not retreat out of the province after losing ... instead you end your turn inside the battle province, in Defensive mode. We saw that happen a few times in our game, particularly in Sena Gallica.
When that happens, the defeated relief force and the besieged forces can swap units at the start of the next turn as as normal ... including supply wagons. Switch the empties for full ones, and there you have it.
Like I said, I saw a Roman AI do this to me in a game a few times, while I was sieging Rome. I could see this happening, because before the battle the Urban Preator's army was yellow dots, then to red dots ... then this big battle ... then they were back to green dots again. Grrr. Definitely prolonged that siege.
Another way a city can get resupplied, and I've seen the AI do this, is to send in a sufficiently large relief force to do battle ... with some extra wagons. Now, if you win the battle and drive off the besiegers, great. Problem solved.
If you lose the battle but do not get routed (ie, take extra after-battle casualties), I *think* what happens is that you do not retreat out of the province after losing ... instead you end your turn inside the battle province, in Defensive mode. We saw that happen a few times in our game, particularly in Sena Gallica.
When that happens, the defeated relief force and the besieged forces can swap units at the start of the next turn as as normal ... including supply wagons. Switch the empties for full ones, and there you have it.
Like I said, I saw a Roman AI do this to me in a game a few times, while I was sieging Rome. I could see this happening, because before the battle the Urban Preator's army was yellow dots, then to red dots ... then this big battle ... then they were back to green dots again. Grrr. Definitely prolonged that siege.
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