Very Low Private Gain as Prussia

[Metalist]

Hey guys,
I am playing as Prussia, at first capital income was very nice, everybody was buying expensive stuff like mechanical parts, mnf. goods etc but after a while my exports started to decrease. It is August 1852 now, and i am seeing maybe the lowest trade income: 98 Capital. The only things i can sell is supply and textile. If i fail to sell textile too, i am sure my economy will collapse. What happened? Why don't people buy my industrial goods anymore? Sometimes my net private gain can't even reach 100. I have 37 factrories, 24 mines, 20 farms. Did i industrialized too much? But i don't think so.
Thanks for any help or advice.

[Jim-NC]

Without a screen shot or something it will be hard to deduce. You may be spending too much on your buildings, importing too much, too much taxes, or a combination of these. You also could have something else wrong (like you are buying expensive things, not selling enough).

[H Gilmer3]

I went through a period like that. I just kept plugging away. I kept looking at the T screen and the F4 screen and kept trying to sell and eventually things started selling.

I looked at the T screen in all areas around Prussia - Austria, Poland, Belgium, etc., and kept clicking sell more of XXX item. I had actually built up a large amount of several items, like nitrates, minerals, dyes, etc. I kept looking at every area and kept trying to sell more where I could. I didn't actually have my big "breakthrough" of capital until about 1860 and now I'm getting decent gains every turn.

I posted a similar question to this. On this forum. Look under my post about transactions. About halfway down the page with 8 replies. I was getting negative return on my capital in some turns.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?25153-Is-there-any-way-to-figure-out-what-your-actual-transactions

I'm playing Prussia, too. I'm in 1862 (1863 until I got hit with a bug or something).

[Metalist]

The attachment PON 2012-08-20 06-00-12-19.jpg is no longer available

As you can see, i have a big stockpile of several industrial goods, some of them come from Krupp event. If my sell orders could be successful, i would have a very nice capital income every turn. Well at least i am not losing capital and still i can build factories and stuff although it takes 5-6 turns. Your post gives me hope H Gilmer3, hope i can have a breakthrough like that.

Thanks for input guys.

[Sir Garnet]

I did not hear any mention of your imports and re-exports. If you are not at least close to fully satisfying your domestic demand, you are doing something wrong. Also, how do you expect people to buy your industrial goods if you don't buy their raw materials? Or at least enable them to trade through you with other countries to develop their economies rather than just sitting on their stocks until some other great power needs their stuff.

A mercantilist approach, in which you export goods but import only payments or a few things you critically need, does help keep the other economies weak but yours will lag as well. Great Britain and its colonies together have an internal economy big enough to be diverse and autarkic - others much less so.

Check the discussion of trade in the manual.

[H Gilmer3]

I don't know how effective this is or if I even recommend it, but I did one thing that gave me more capital. I banned imports of some things. And then I lifted the ban. That seemed to convert some of my cash to capital.

Also, any balance that I had over say 300-400 I kept trying to sell them in the different markets I had access to. So, it looks like you could try to keep selling chemicals, manufactured goods, and I forgot the other - sell 4 more nitrates so that you aren't gaining or losing.

I'm not sure if I have seen you say you use the T Screen which I have mentioned, but possibly you can sell more in Poland and Austria and Belgium? Maybe.

[Metalist]

@Sir Garnet
My only imports are rum, wine and tobacco from Americas, but i am not always able buy them. So i have to buy the stuff i don't need from other countries, allow them to expand their industrial development, so that i can sell them mnf. goods, mechanical parts etc. I'll try that. By the way my domestic sell is 180 goods, people satisfaction changes %32.

@H Gilmer3
After your first post i searched a bit and now i can sell 2 mnf. goods to an Italian state. I will try to find more like this.

[James D Burns]

Another thing to try is to sign commercial agreements with other nations. Once you have locked up those agreements, it is a lot easier to keep your private capital up. But make sure you become the market maker if you do this or you will crash the economies of other AI nations who can’t compete with you without their own agreements.

Once you dominate trade build up a sizable private cash pool and then start buying more than you need of pretty much everything and then resell it to keep the world trade economy humming along in a healthy state. That way there will be financially stable customers around to buy your profitable surplus items.

Trying to rely solely on large productions of one or two items like you have can also lead to serious trouble. I don’t think there is a minimum price for any good type, so mechanical parts can sell just as low as grain if not lower if there is an oversupply.

So if your main export item has a big price drop, it can paralyze your economy. I find it far more stable and profitable to overproduce 4-6 more of every item than to concentrate a large overproduction on just one or two areas. Unlike the real world, cornering the market in game on a single area and pushing out competitors isn’t necessarily very profitable since you are not the one who gets to then set the prices.

[Jim-NC]

To help your capital, stop manufacturing steel and mechanical parts. You are making 30 and 15 parts each turn, but not consuming enough to reduce your stock. If you shut down your factories for 4 turns (2 months), it will allow you a chance to get rid of some of your excess, and save you some money (you are no longer paying the workers). This will give you approximately 90 more capital per turn (depending on how efficient your factories are). You probably want to also stop making chemicals for the same amount of time.
Also, I notice that you have a zero for chemicals on the 3rd line, that means either you are not selling any internally, or your craftsmen are producing as much as your internal sales. You will need some technical help with this. Research the technologies that increase the amount you can sell to your people, which will allow them to purchase more, allowing you to sell more.

As to the 0.32% improvement, you need to sell them more of a variety of goods then you are currently. I would say that you probably need to sell them more luxury goods (gold, gems, opium, silk) then you are now. When you can, purchase some petroleum, and sell that to your people.

[H Gilmer3]

@Sir Garnet
My only imports are rum, wine and tobacco from Americas, but i am not always able buy them. So i have to buy the stuff i don't need from other countries, allow them to expand their industrial development, so that i can sell them mnf. goods, mechanical parts etc. I'll try that. By the way my domestic sell is 180 goods, people satisfaction changes %32.

@H Gilmer3
After your first post i searched a bit and now i can sell 2 mnf. goods to an Italian state. I will try to find more like this.

I had absolutely no clue about the T Screen before reading an AAR on the Paradox forums. It has helped me immensely. The economy is almost impossible to regulate without using the T Screens.

[H Gilmer3]

Another thing playing as Prussia. When you get to the first unification (thew NGF), you'll get an influx of cash and private capital. And then the full German unification in about 1870 is insane. I had 34,000 in cash and 19,000 in private capital after the full unification (in my last game that I restarted due to messing up the Franco-Prussian War and wanting to start over after the patch hit.

[H Gilmer3]

As to the 0.32% improvement, you need to sell them more of a variety of goods then you are currently. I would say that you probably need to sell them more luxury goods (gold, gems, opium, silk) then you are now. When you can, purchase some petroleum, and sell that to your people.

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. The best I have done is .34 or so. I figured that was good enough because it meant 1% every three turns. I am still not knowledgeable enough to do better than that.

[Metalist]

Another thing playing as Prussia. When you get to the first unification (thew NGF), you'll get an influx of cash and private capital. And then the full German unification in about 1870 is insane. I had 34,000 in cash and 19,000 in private capital after the full unification (in my last game that I restarted due to messing up the Franco-Prussian War and wanting to start over after the patch hit.

19000 capital?! :OOO That is insane indeed. By the way, i am lucky for seeing you, can you tell me what to do for unification? I read that if North German states are loyal enough by 1860, NGF can be found. How much loyalty are we talking about here? %80? And for full unification, is conquering Alsace-Lorraine enough?

Also at the moment i have Bach Expedition in Africa and they don't have supply anymore. I guess they will start to suffer from lack of supply next turn. What did you do for Bach?

[H Gilmer3]

19000 capital?! :OOO That is insane indeed. By the way, i am lucky for seeing you, can you tell me what to do for unification? I read that if North German states are loyal enough by 1860, NGF can be found. How much loyalty are we talking about here? %80? And for full unification, is conquering Alsace-Lorraine enough?

I have never been able to get them to unify except by historical dates. I forgot how I got the NGF. I need to read up on it again. I know it happened 1 of 2 ways. It was either 1) I fought Austria and after I successfully concluded it I was given an option to form the NGF. or 2) It just fired at a certain date. I play those unification cards/chits all the time and it hasn't worked for me, I don't think.

Also at the moment i have Bach Expedition in Africa and they don't have supply anymore. I guess they will start to suffer from lack of supply next turn. What did you do for Bach?

I pulled them out of there. You have the Kormoran ship there that they can easily load into. The problem for you, though, is you probably have not been building up "colonies" like I did. Not formal colonies of any sort, but I built some transports and trained up a few colonial brigades and mixed expedition forces and took over the area in the "Lagos" region of African where the Benin tribes are. The tribes decided to attack me, but I beat them and started building up the area. It's the area that is crooked like an upside down elbow in West Africa. At the moment, I have about 9 regions there with railroads, forts, depots, anchorages, and some factories. I took the Barth expedition there and explored some. Then when I got the Rabaul objective, I loaded up the Barth expedition and a mixed expedition on the transports and ran over there and offloaded. I have built there as well. Now, I'm doing it to Samoa. I can't get anything over 35%, though, and it is annoying that I can't, because I am in the Solomons and also in the Lae and Buna areas in New Guinea? I think that is what it is called now. If you have ever played any WW2 games, it is right next to Rabaul to the West. The Big "island".

[H Gilmer3]

This link describes more or less what you need to do for unification. I'm still trying to get it through using the unification cards. In my last game, under patch 1.02, I am pretty sure I did it with the Austro-Prussian war. And then the Franco-Prussian War. I unified full Germany after taking Alsace and Lorraine territories during Franco-Prussian war. If you go to war with France and you get the unification to fire... if you want to keep Alsace and Lorraine, you have to keep fighting France and forge a peace through diplomacy with them as war gains, I believe. I didn't do it in my first game. I figured it was like the Holstein-Schleswig war and I was awarded the states after I won the war. It did not work the same for Alsace and Lorraine, though.


http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?21836-German-unification&highlight=German+unification

[Metalist]

Thanks a lot H Gilmer3, i guess i have to create Germany by iron and blood.

[Jim-NC]

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. The best I have done is .34 or so. I figured that was good enough because it meant 1% every three turns. I am still not knowledgeable enough to do better than that.

I have gotten it up to 0.58% a turn before. I was selling my population ell available reousrces at that point. I was selling them all the food and common goods they could buy, and I had enough on hand to satisfy their every wish. The key was the luxury resources. I had to get gems, gold and opium. The big breakthrough was when I started getting the 30-35 gems/opium a turn due to my new businessmen emergence. I got gems 1 turn, then opium the next. Thus I was selling large quantities of luxuries to them.

The problem with the S-P game is that everyone hoards gold and gems. The AI has this weird fixation on having Money, and lots of it. Thus, you can easily have 4,000 to 6,000 or more in money per minor nation. When you unify Germany, they can get many thousands of money and capital as that is what the minors had in their vaults. You also gain the resources they had. So if they are hoarding sugar, you will get all the sugar, and probably have too much for what you need.

[H Gilmer3]

I got up to .37 to .39 a few turns. I guess I need to buy some of those luxuries (and stop selling them when I get them from new businessman).

[H Gilmer3]

Thanks a lot H Gilmer3, i guess i have to create Germany by iron and blood.

I'm real close to having all the Northern Minors above 60 in relation. I'll give an update if that works. I should get there before the Austro-Prussian War. I have all of them 100 but Hessel-Darmstadt. It's at 48 and I just started 1865. I should get to 60. Or hoping. Not that I'm really afraid of Austria. I am about to get another musket/rifle upgrade and that should give me a good boost of power.

If you fight a European war, you might have to use doomstacks. That seems to be the only way to win. I had to use a doomstack to take down an Austrian doomstack in my previous game.

[H Gilmer3]

What was described as a peaceful way to unify the NGF has not. I don't trust the game to let me unify without fighting Austria, so I'm on the verge of declaring war. It's 1866 and I'm moving my doomstacks into range.

[bjfagan]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19574[/ATTACH]
As you can see, i have a big stockpile of several industrial goods, some of them come from Krupp event. If my sell orders could be successful, i would have a very nice capital income every turn. Well at least i am not losing capital and still i can build factories and stuff although it takes 5-6 turns. Your post gives me hope H Gilmer3, hope i can have a breakthrough like that.

Thanks for input guys.

You definitely need to shut down your Mfg Goods and Mechanical Parts factories. You have way too many in stock. Let the stock run down and save your capital. Also, you are converting supply and ammo. Unless you are in a major war that is consuming a large quantity of these, there is no need to convert this stuff. Turn the conversion off, build up a small stock and then shut down your factories so that you are only producing what you are selling. Same for steel and chemicals, you have way too much. Shut these factories down and let the stockpiles drop. I usually maintain about 200 or so for steel and would prefer 100 for chemicals, however, since your chemical factories make dyes you might need these more and have to run a surplus on chemicals.

You should shut down or start factories to keep production at the point that meets your exports/domestic consumption. Keep an eye on worldwide demand and only add factories when you think the demand is going to exceed your production capacity. However, don't forget that demand will go up and down with the economy and other nations' production output.

[Random]

As France in 1859, ammo and supplies have a high value so rather than shutting down my factories I'm selling all surplus production on foreign markets where both items have become cash-cows for the private sector. This may eventually drive the price down but has not done so yet and even England is using French ammunition to subdue India.

[Metalist]

Thanks for explaining supply and ammo thing bjfagan, these two are my major exports and thanks to you i can sell more