Fleet...has been landlocked and is destroyed

[TheDoctorKing]

I received this message twice playing recently using the 1.11 patch and the SVF mod. Once was for a fleet of riverine transport ships going from Cairo to Bowling Green that seemed to try to go directly from the Great Confluent towards Bowling green without trying to go up the Ohio to the intersection with the Barren River. This was in November or December, and it is possible that the Bowling Green river area was frozen. The other was the USS Michigan, which the system allowed me to order to move to the Atlantic. Then, during the turn, somewhere along the Eire Canal (I think) it disappeared, with the disappointing report indicated.

What is going on? I expect this must be a bug of some sort. But I question the need for such a process in the first place - ships should not be destroyed if locked in by ice or whatever. They would just become immobile until the ice melted.

[squarian]

I received this message twice playing recently using the 1.11 patch and the SVF mod. Once was for a fleet of riverine transport ships going from Cairo to Bowling Green that seemed to try to go directly from the Great Confluent towards Bowling green without trying to go up the Ohio to the intersection with the Barren River. This was in November or December, and it is possible that the Bowling Green river area was frozen. The other was the USS Michigan, which the system allowed me to order to move to the Atlantic. Then, during the turn, somewhere along the Eire Canal (I think) it disappeared, with the disappointing report indicated.

What is going on? I expect this must be a bug of some sort. But I question the need for such a process in the first place - ships should not be destroyed if locked in by ice or whatever. They would just become immobile until the ice melted.

I've had the same thing happen (1.11a/SFV) - lost the Alabama that way, in fact. I'm pretty sure it relates to this issue:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=99661&postcount=291

And if Grey L has fixed it in vanilla, it must be caused by SFV, and probably because Clovis hasn't had a chance to update SFV in light of the latest patch (1.11a). I think the cause is a naval unit moving overland, then ending the turn still in a land area - poof.

In fact, a number of odd things are happening in my latest game, which are almost certainly caused by the interaction of the latest patch and the mod. But despite all, SFV is worth it, if only to avoid vanilla's meat-grinder casualty rates.

One solution, though tedious, is to be very careful moving naval units on rivers - move segment by segment, and make sure all waypoints are actually on water. Don't just drag and drop onto the destination - you'll be moving overland at least part of the way.

[lodilefty]

But I question the need for such a process in the first place - ships should not be destroyed if locked in by ice or whatever. They would just become immobile until the ice melted.

Wooden ships rarely survive being frozen in ice...

..even ships built for Arctic/Antarctic travel can get crushed.... just ask Shackleton

[tagwyn]

Michigan was built in Great Lakes and cannot make it to ocean, just like in real life. What a great war time assignment!! Wasn't Alabama Semmes ocean raider? apy:

[TheDoctorKing]

Several Arctic explorers lost their ships that way. Henry Hudson too, I think. But in those cases, it was Arctic sea ice that shifted under the pressure of currents and weather and squeezed the ships to death over a period of months or years. Ships that are iced in in Great Lakes ports are not going to have that problem.

Thanks for the info on the ships moving over land. I have noticed this a couple of times. I will certainly be more careful about naval movement along rivers. I sort of figured that that guy in the Great Lakes couldn't get out, I was just hoping that they found some canal that would accomodate him. I guess he tried to go over Niagara Falls and ended up a spectacular wreck!

[squarian]

I think I meant the ironclad Arkansas - whichever ship appears in Vicksburg?? Memphis?? early in the game. Tried to sail it up river, dragged and dropped it on the destination - next thing I know, the game is telling me the blasted thing died of a surfeit of land.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[satisfaction]

I believe there is something that is out of sync with SVF and 1.11a. I had some issues that Gray had me try and track down in pure vanilla and I cannot replicate, but can in SVF. These all seem to be related to naval issues, mostly on rivers it seems. Figured I'd chime in as I went through some of this.

[TheDoctorKing]

Most likely it has nothing to do with ice... Check to see if it's in Auburn, NY... This was designed as an interim harbor due to the use of transition links for the canal movement. Even though the USS Michigan can't exit to the river regions (they are defined as Shallow), it can actually move to Auburn, NY, which I am unable to block since it would block all the other types of ships as well. Probably, you tried to move to Upper Hudson River and it stopped in Auburn, NY.

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Let me know if you found it in Auburn, NY.

Regards

Gray_Lensman

I didn't really find it anywhere. It was just destroyed. I went back to a previous save position and watched what happened and that is exactly right - it tried to go down the Erie canal and at some point, not the end of the turn but a few days in, the system noticed that it couldn't be there and destroyed it.

I have noticed on several other occasions ships trying to take "short cuts" across land like the fleet that was headed to Bowling Green and got landlocked. I also have an ironclad on the upper Ohio who keeps trying to sail through Indiana to get to the lower Ohio. I think he's trying to use the railroad, which would be a heck of a sight if you think about it...

[Gray_Lensman]

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