Once & for all

[GrudgeBringer]

I seem to be reading some conflicting information (or maybe its my mind that can't comprehend it) but I would like to put this matter to bed once and for all...Please.

First I understand about traits being 'transferred to the whole Corps (like Artillerist and some that don't (like Fast Mover) by subordinate Generals in a Corps Stack.

Now where the problem for me comes up is (and these are folks that are knowledgeable) I read that a Division is a unique item. Once it becomes part of a Corps then its individuality is GONE until it leaves the Corps Stack.

IMHO that means it has been absorbed into the Corps Stack and IS the Stack and ANY traits that Specialty units have that are attached to the D commander or ANY traits that say it applies to the whole stack its in counts as a PLUS for the Corps as a whole.

If that division is broken OUT of the Corps then it is a individual unit agian and regular rules apply.

IS THIS CORRECT?

2. It has been somewhat muddled (to us new guys) about the STATS of a Division Leader in a Corps (example LongStreet 5/4/4).

What 'stats' help the Corps in general on a D Command's resume.

I understand that the base is the Corps Commander, but do ANY of the Stats (like 6/4/4) add to the Corps stack at all or do they help THAT particular Divison to fight better or Defend better than say a 3/1/1 general while in the Corps tack in a battle?

Last question...

In your guys opinion is it BETTER to have a Corps Stack lead by T Jackson (this is as CSA) with D leaders say Longstreet, J.e.b. Stuart, Huger, and Hood?

or would it be better to break these guys out to perhaps Individual Divisional commands with a generic second in command and form Ad-Hoc corps so that thier stats would count.

Then fill in thier places in the Corps with lower 'generic' Generals.

I think if we could get a definitive answer on these questions then it would make a lot more sense to a bunch of us.

Thanks as Usual

[Coregonas]

The Short way:

a) Most CORPS leader bonuses (i.e. Defense / Attack / Fast mover...) give these bonuses to ALL the troops in the corps (called STACK in the game)

For instance Stonewall - 5/4/4
Adds Att - 4*5% +20% to the Fire value of ALL the troops in the corps.

So Fire 10 -> 12

Stonewall gives also +5 Cohesion to ALL units of the CORPS

There are a few skills not transfering to all the corps ( but only a few! for instance - entrencher - Longstreet)

b) Division regiments get all the bonuses from the corps if INSIDE the corps.

If you pick them out (as independent troops) they lose these bonuses.

THEY get ALWAYS the Division leader bonuses.. In both cases: INTO a CORPS or OUT of a CORPS.

For instance Longstreet has a division (5-3-6 entrencher)
All the regiments IN the Division get
+1 protection if entrenched
3% * 6 = defense 18% bonus

if inside Stonewall CORPS, another
4*5% = 20% bonus added

Hope this solve your 3 questions.

IT IS ALWAYS better to have troops inside a CORPS. The problem is having good CORPS commanders!

[GrudgeBringer]

That helped a BUNCH....

One thing you didn't address is would it be better off in the long run to have all the 'good' generals in one or 2 Corps or have say...1 good general Besides the Corps commander in the Corps and the rest generic?

It seems if the stats (example 5/4/3) arn't used (only Corps Commanders are used) in thier own division or add on to the C Commander, then it would be better to have 6 GOOD Divisions and 2 to 4 GOOD Corps than 2 GREAT Corps and 4 average or below average (cause they MAY not even activate if they don't have a GOOD commander) Divisions.

I agree that ALL troops should be in some kind of cohesive unit (whether Corps or Division) but the QUALITY I think is more important than just numbers...Do you agree?

[Coregonas]

It seems if the stats (example 5/4/3) arn't used (only Corps Commanders are used) in thier own division or add on to the C Commander, then it would be better to have 6 GOOD Divisions and 2 to 4 GOOD Corps than 2 GREAT Corps and 4 average or below average (cause they MAY not even activate if they don't have a GOOD commander) Divisions.

Oh no Division Commander STATS are YES used also. So bonus are ADDED. And also the Army bonuses are!!!.

Check this:

Lee as Army Commander 6/5/5 ---> Can give a +3 bonus to defense ratio of
Longstreet as Corps commander 5/3/6 who can turn into a 7-6-9 some turns! and Magruder as Division Commander 4/2/3

The total defensive bonuses of the division line infantry is:
9*5 - 45% Longstreet +
3* 3% - 9% extra for magruder

54%

So a 20 Defensive Firepower of a line infantry turns into a 30 !!!!!!

Even a 3-1 or 4-1 could be easily stopped if also entrenched!

[Coregonas]

I agree that ALL troops should be in some kind of cohesive unit (whether Corps or Division) but the QUALITY I think is more important than just numbers...Do you agree?

Well of course Quality is very important

The best should have JUST in the next combat all the troops with a GOOD corps & GOOD division commanders with:
Late Line Infantry merged with 1 elite troop & 1 Sharpshooter, and some arty!

But this costs a lot !

You can try building more militias (cheaper!), and "hope" all of them survive time enough to train to Late infantry!

So in the end perhaps you can display more regiments

[Jabberwock]

1. If there is a sharpshooter in a division (a trait which applies to a unit) then that division has an initiative bonus in combat. If there is a pontooneer (or engineer, or medical unit, or signal unit, etc.) in the division, then the stack gets a bonus. Traits are consistent in their application, whether coming from a division or a standalone unit.

Side note: I prefer throwing all those support units into a single division under my worst div. commander (except pontooneers who go in a regular division), protected by the weakest infantry and artillery in the stack. That way, they don't slow down the stack's movement as much. This usually only applies to stacks moving seperate from their supplies. Most players will tell you this practice is a waste of division slots.

2. Offense and defense ratings help for any division or brigade commander in a stack. Strategy does not. The strategic rating of the stack commander applies to the whole stack. So a 1-2-3 commander is just as good as a 5-2-3 commander, as long as they are both sub-units of a stack.

The offense or defense of sub-commanders is applied to their individual commands in battle, not to the corps as a whole. The division commander has greater influence over his divisions performance in combat than the stack commander (I believe it is a 3% bonus per point for the stack commander, a 5% bonus per point for the division commander). The stack commander provides his 3% per point bonuses to every unit in the stack, however. If the stack is a corps, then the commander will have more (or less) of those 3% bonuses to hand out.

3. Generally, it is better to keep the units together in one command structure. Those 3% bonuses add up, units within a corps move and fight together by definition (being part of the same stack), and corps are mutually supporting.

It depends on the situation. If I need say, Longstreet to entrench, and Stuart (with a generic assistant) to tear up some nearby rail, while Jackson does something else with the rest of the troops, then I will split them that way. If I am fighting a battle I want them all in one stack, preferably in those trenches Longstreet just built. You pretty much want to keep Huger with the main body, whether he is commanding troops or not.

Don't split your command in the proximity of an enemy force, unless you are fighting Chancellorsville or 2nd Manassas.

[Walloc]

Grudge,

I'd read this thread. U should get all ur questions answered.
NCP and AACW works the same in this regard so the infomation is usable for AACW too.

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7475
Post 10 has the info regarding these questions but im sure u can learn much from the other posts too.

In short a corps commanders ratings gives +5% per level of rating too all troops in his corps.
Divisional commanders gives +3% per level of rating to all units in his division.
Independant or not in case division is inside a corps the 2 set of bonuses BOTH apply. As Coregonas says.
So it always pays to have the best possible commanders at any level in short.
Coregonas comes with a astude observation. Unlike most times in history where ppl/generals seems to have gathered elite units into larger elite formations, to be used as some sorta elite "shock"/guard troops. The way the ability works in the game. U get the most from spreding them out with 1 elite unit in each division.

In general is the same for abilties, but there are exceptions.
For example if both corps and divisional commander have same ability u only get it once. There are a few more exceptions but read the thread.


Hope it helps,

Rasmus

[Jabberwock]

According to ltr, I have the combat bonuses backwards. The stack commander provides 5% per point, the division commanders provide 3% per point.

[Walloc]

Yup, was clarified being that. It was always said to be the other way round. (along with a few other things)


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[kcole4001]

One thing I disagree with is placing support units (engineer, signal, balloon, hospital, etc.) in a Div.

If outside of the Div., they don't cost command points, and so ride for free, so to speak.

Inside of a Div. structure, they are part of the command cost for the Div. (4 pts).

They give their bonuses to the stack as long as they are part of the stack, so this is a waste of Div. slots, which should go to combat formations, however low strength they may be.

A Marine or Sailor unit needs only be in one Div., or independant in the corps stack to have effect, but does count for command usage (1 pt), so being part of one or two Divs is most effective.

This is just my take on using your resources and Div. limitations most efficiently, so do whatever you feel most comfortable with, of course.

p.s.: that we can have such discussions as this is testimony to the broad scope presented in this game for different play styles, tactics, etc.
It speaks volumes about the quality of the design and it's execution.

[Coregonas]

Side note: I prefer throwing all those support units into a single division under my worst div. commander (except pontooneers who go in a regular division), protected by the weakest infantry and artillery in the stack. That way, they don't slow down the stack's movement as much. This usually only applies to stacks moving seperate from their supplies. Most players will tell you this practice is a waste of division slots.

Jabber

Do you mean that any single units in a corps (out of a division) -> all the corps slower?

Ot only are the support units who slow the stack movement ratio

I have not tested this. But really very important in the move!

[Jabberwock]

Jabber

Do you mean that any single units in a corps (out of a division) -> all the corps slower?

Ot only are the support units who slow the stack movement ratio

I have not tested this. But really very important in the move!

Mostly it is support units and artillery. Units with movement type: wheeled. Those all seem to move faster inside a division.

[Jabberwock]

If outside of the Div., they don't cost command points, and so ride for free, so to speak.

Inside of a Div. structure, they are part of the command cost for the Div. (4 pts).

They don't add to the 4CP cost of a pre-existing div. Good CP control does two things. It drastically improves combat ability. It is also rightfully the primary way to speed movement. However, wheeled units are not free if they are slowing movement. Stacks that reach their objectives before the enemy can react are more valuable. Stacks with less cohesion loss are more valuable. Corps that could 'march to the guns' faster would be more valuable, except that corps with no supply wagons attached are less valuable. So that's a situational judgement call. I generally try to have major stacks rendezvous with their supplies as they reach the front lines. I try to use all the force magnification tools I can find or think of, added mobility is just a tool. It is not the right hammer for every situation.

They give their bonuses to the stack as long as they are part of the stack, so this is a waste of Div. slots, which should go to combat formations, however low strength they may be.

A Marine or Sailor unit needs only be in one Div., or independant in the corps stack to have effect, but does count for command usage (1 pt), so being part of one or two Divs is most effective.

I usually have slightly more div slots available than I have units to put in them, so it is not really a cost or waste to me. I don't build a bunch of units and then go looking for a general to wrap a div around them. I look first at the ratings and attributes of generals I have available, and which ones are active. Then I look at units and what I can or should build. I use a combination of those views to get 'enough' divs created as soon as I can afford them. Occasionally, if I have a general with a low strategic ratic, but good offense and/or defense ratings, I will pre-create a div for him and stick something in it (usually a low strength combat unit) until I have more units available or until his div-creation penalty is gone. Then the div fills up and joins the fray.

This is just my take on using your resources and Div. limitations most efficiently, so do whatever you feel most comfortable with, of course.

p.s.: that we can have such discussions as this is testimony to the broad scope presented in this game for different play styles, tactics, etc.
It speaks volumes about the quality of the design and it's execution.

I couldn't have said that any better.
Regards
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