What D%$#@M Stack

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I have started this game over 26 (yes I have counted them) times and each time (except for the first 3 turns) I have realized the farther I get in this game that the first few moves are CRITICAL and to NOT concentrate on just the Virginia Front.

I have a couple of questions before I start game 27.

1. Engineer's...Do they go in the Army, Corps, or Division Stack for benifits (I really get tired of the ambiguous description's of units attributes and who they benifit)?

2. When you have a General that says "it is stactic and won't leave the region" is that for just a few turns or is it there for the duration, and WHY is it static if it says it can lead a command this turn?

Is the REGION the small area around it or is it the 'Grand Region' in the filters?

And since we are talking about static generals...when R.E. Lee apprears it says he is PERMANTLY static in Richmond. How the heck can I lose at Gettysberg if I'm stuck in Richmond?
AND since we are talking about Lee I have this question.

I played a game and when Lee came on board I gave him command of Northern Virginia. Johnston went NUTS and I lost like 200 V points.

Soooo, my question is this, Can I buy a generic HQ give it to Johnston first THEN give Lee command of Northern Viginia and everyone be happy? (but what about A.P.Johnson (seniority3 in the west) will HE go nuts or is it just when Generals are close to each other that it matters?

This seniority thing makes a lot of sense in theory but do you REALLY have to follow it to the letter?

I mean Lee is 4 and AP is 3 so DO i need to make 4 armies to get Lee in the saddle?

I WILL get past turn 17!!! (with your help guys)

Thanks as usual....I'm sure I will have 3 more questions tomorrow (I certainly hope some other Noob is following my posts and gets some good out of them).

[Aurelin]

OK, I have started this game over 26 (yes I have counted them) times and each time (except for the first 3 turns) I have realized the farther I get in this game that the first few moves are CRITICAL and to NOT concentrate on just the Virginia Front.

I have a couple of questions before I start game 27.

1. Engineer's...Do they go in the Army, Corps, or Division Stack for benifits (I really get tired of the ambiguous description's of units attributes and who they benifit)?

2. When you have a General that says "it is stactic and won't leave the region" is that for just a few turns or is it there for the duration, and WHY is it static if it says it can lead a command this turn?

Is the REGION the small area around it or is it the 'Grand Region' in the filters?

And since we are talking about static generals...when R.E. Lee apprears it says he is PERMANTLY static in Richmond. How the heck can I lose at Gettysberg if I'm stuck in Richmond?
AND since we are talking about Lee I have this question.

I played a game and when Lee came on board I gave him command of Northern Virginia. Johnston went NUTS and I lost like 200 V points.

Soooo, my question is this, Can I buy a generic HQ give it to Johnston first THEN give Lee command of Northern Viginia and everyone be happy? (but what about A.P.Johnson (seniority3 in the west) will HE go nuts or is it just when Generals are close to each other that it matters?

This seniority thing makes a lot of sense in theory but do you REALLY have to follow it to the letter?

I mean Lee is 4 and AP is 3 so DO i need to make 4 armies to get Lee in the saddle?

I WILL get past turn 17!!! (with your help guys)

Thanks as usual....I'm sure I will have 3 more questions tomorrow (I certainly hope some other Noob is following my posts and gets some good out of them).

Engineers provide the following benefits to any stack they are part of:

Speed up entrenchment
Speed up railroad repair

Lee will unlock in early 1862. Giving a lower seniority general an army command over a higher one will cost something. Just VPs if you're lucky, that and NM if not. So, you don't have to follow it to the letter. Also, it doesn't matter where they are. Send lil Mac to Sioux City, and you'll still pay big time if you put someone else in charge of the AoTP before he gets an army.

[Coffee Sergeant]

1. A stack is a stack is a stack, if something affects the whole stack, it doesn't matter what kind of stack it is.

Placing them them in the army stack will not benefir the whole Army, only the stack that the Army HQ is present.

There is no such thing as a "Division" stack. Divisions are a special type of unit, not stacks. A stack that contains a division in it is nothng special. You can't add support units (engineers, medical, supply wagon, etc.) to a division, so there is no meanginful way to assosciate any support units, such as engineers to a specific division.

It would be logical to place your engineers in stacks where you want to entrench quickly - so therefore stacks where intend to mostly defend. Also useful on an extended sieges, as the entrenchment will help repel any breakout attempt.

2. A few generals are locked and and either won't be active until later in the game (Lee), or disappear (retire) - Winfield Scott for the USA and Samuel Cooper for the CSA

Lee gets unlocked I think around Late April 1862. But the game doesn't give you the slightest hint about that - it only says he is locked. I think it should be switched to a "Lee is locked for x turns" like it is for other generals.

3. If you assign an Army to a general who has less seniority who has no Army command, you will suffer VP/NM penalty. There is a tooltip that should tell you approximately what the penalty is going to be.

[soloswolf]

GrudgeBringer,

I think you have asked some really great questions, both in this post and in others you have put up. But, IMHO, you would be much better served by playing through the bulk of a whole game and taking your licks than restarting after turn 17. (26 times?! )

I totally agree with you that this is a hugely intensive game with a TON of things to learn and remember and then furthermore, execute. But I think the best way to learn is just by playing.

I am not at all telling you to shut up, btw. Keep your questions coming! They only help us all get better.

Take care,
Aaron

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks guys I think I finally get the stack thing. I was looking at EACH type of command as a stack.

Understanding that if you put it with the general of the Army will ONLY help his pitiful few units makes sense. HOWEVER, a Signal Corps from what I understand DOES go with the general and there is NO WHERE but these forums to find that out.

I understand about the Generals and thier seniority thing....what I was asking is 'IF I make a generic HQ and givit it to a lower seniority (Lower number) and then ship him off to Tenn will that satisfy the rules.

I know that taking the hit sometimes is the only thing to do but I am just wanting to know my options.

As far as playing through the campaign and NOT starting over....

IMHO IF I don't ask these questions I will make the same mistake over and over but will play 50 turns instead of 10 to 17 turns.

Yes I ask alot of questions but I am NOT one to just jump in and start pushing buttons and on turn 34 say "ohhhhh thats what I was doing wrong' and knowing that I should have done it on turn 2.

Hopefully, other new guys will see the same questions and go "oh yeah, I was wondering that also" because I sure wish there was a string of posts that asked about the DETAIL questions that arn't clear to anyone but the Vets. The rest of it is pretty obvious.

I REALLY APPRECIATE EACH AND EVRY ONE OF YOU THAT TAKES THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

At least I am starting to form a strategy from starting over so many times because I think in order for the South to rise agian.....I think I am gonna need it!!!!

Thanks agian!!!

[Coffee Sergeant]

Actually, I a PBEM where I formed the ANV with J. Johnston on one turn, then a few turns later when Lee gets unlocked, I make Johnston leader of the AotP(lead by Beauregard at the time) and move him West, and appoint Lee as new leader of the ANV.

Johnston got pissed and I took the hit, despite Johnston never losing an Army command. I guess I should have just made Lee leader of the AotP, then moved Johston West and when the Armies get reformed they will have the proper name.

This is historical and makes sense (that I would take a hit of Johnston moved West), but since the game says you should only take the hit if the sacked leader remains without a command, is this a bug?

[Pubcrawler]

building on the initial question:

If I build a Signal Corps, they should reside in the Army stack, correct? Or, do I have to build one for the Army, and one for each Corps to get the benefits?

Balloons. Okay. I admit, I'm kinda lost here. It looks like balloons are used to add CP to a stack... ? If so, couldn't I just use some mediocre generals to add CP to a stack or are there other reasons for balloons?

I found this post, but it was a bit confusing http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5620&highlight=balloons

[Coffee Sergeant]

building on the initial question:

If I build a Signal Corps, they should reside in the Army stack, correct? Or, do I have to build one for the Army, and one for each Corps to get the benefits?

It benefits only the stack it is present in, whether its the Corps or Army or plain vanilla stack. Look at the command points provided to the stack when you add and remove the signal corps from the stack.

Balloons. Okay. I admit, I'm kinda lost here. It looks like balloons are used to add CP to a stack... ? If so, couldn't I just use some mediocre generals to add CP to a stack or are there other reasons for balloons?

I found this post, but it was a bit confusing http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5620&highlight=balloons

They provide 1 command point to the stack they are present in. They are also pretty good at detection if I remember right.

[GrudgeBringer]

I think the problem some (ME for sure) of us are having about where to place specialty units is this.

We are all accustomed to playing games where the General (Field Marshall ect, ect) has certain attributes that his whole army gets the benifit of when attached to him.

In most games They are attached DIRECTLY to the General so we can see that his men DO get the attributes.

In THIS game its more realistic an how an army is constructed.

So where we are having the problem is this (I think anyway), we think if the General gets a signal unit or a medical unit then it SHOULD by everything we are used to filter down to everyone tied to this particular General.

What I see from this post and the repeated same questions in different words is this:

WHAT is considered a stack....(example) Is a Corps considered a stack so that ALL divisions in the Corps stack will get attributes from specialty units attached to THAT specific Corps Commander. Or, even though they are IN the same stack and commanded by the same leader they are ALL independent or of each other.

The same goes for divisions, Brigades, Army Hq, ect ect.

We all seem to have a problem, not with the chain of command BUT are all 'stacks' independent of each other when it comes to specialty units.

Sgt. Coffee has done GREAT job trying to make this knuckle head understand it but I must admit I am still 'little' confused about does EVERYONE have to have a Signal unit to communicate with each other and get benifits?

OR, can I just pick and chose who gets an engineer because I am using them as defensive units?

I hope this makes some sense and if anyone can say it better PLEASE DO!!!

[Le Ricain]

I think the problem some (ME for sure) of us are having about where to place specialty units is this.

We are all accustomed to playing games where the General (Field Marshall ect, ect) has certain attributes that his whole army gets the benifit of when attached to him.

In most games They are attached DIRECTLY to the General so we can see that his men DO get the attributes.

In THIS game its more realistic an how an army is constructed.

So where we are having the problem is this (I think anyway), we think if the General gets a signal unit or a medical unit then it SHOULD by everything we are used to filter down to everyone tied to this particular General.

What I see from this post and the repeated same questions in different words is this:

WHAT is considered a stack....(example) Is a Corps considered a stack so that ALL divisions in the Corps stack will get attributes from specialty units attached to THAT specific Corps Commander. Or, even though they are IN the same stack and commanded by the same leader they are ALL independent or of each other.

The same goes for divisions, Brigades, Army Hq, ect ect.

We all seem to have a problem, not with the chain of command BUT are all 'stacks' independent of each other when it comes to specialty units.

Sgt. Coffee has done GREAT job trying to make this knuckle head understand it but I must admit I am still 'little' confused about does EVERYONE have to have a Signal unit to communicate with each other and get benifits?

OR, can I just pick and chose who gets an engineer because I am using them as defensive units?

I hope this makes some sense and if anyone can say it better PLEASE DO!!!

Each stack will need a signal, engineer, balloon or engineer unit to get its benefit.

[lodilefty]

WHAT is considered a stack....

A separate "tab" on the units display is a "stack".

Each stack can benefit from a Signal unit (+2 command points: There is no "communication" between stacks per se, just the CP inprovement.), a Med unit, an engineer and/or a balloon. Doesn't matter what chain of command status looks like. These units each give benefit to everything in that stack, regardless of size, or where they are in that stack.

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, I think we are getting somewhere.

If I understand you correctly, EVERY tab is a independent unit unto itself. It can have its own signal corps, engineer, medical officer, ect....and all it does is add CP to THAT unit.

OK, that makes sense but HERE is where I am getting confused.
Take the Engineer, it says it adds a certain % to entrenchment to the stack hes in....

Sooooooooooo If hes (the engineer) is in the Corps stack, does EVERYONE in the stack get entrenchment bonus (by stack I mean Corps Commander, 3 Divisions, 4 Artillery and 2 extra brigades (example of course)?

THIS is where I believe everyone is confused.

If the answer is YES then problem is solved (for me anyway)
If the answer is NO.....then I'm starting to think I have a mental block about this area of the game.

Whatever the answer...Thanks for all your patiance and help!!!!!!!

[saintsup]

The answer is YES.

Let's try to summarize:

1) A stack is a group of unit making a 'counter' on the map (a little perverted if you have chosen the option to superpose all stacks in the same region), a 'tab' in the bottom of the screen. By the way you can lock a stack so that it can not me merged by accident with other stacks.
2) A stack can be 'an army stack' (if there is a general with enough stars, an army HQ and you create the army), 'a corp stack' (if there is a general with enough stars and you create the corp), an 'indepandant stack'
3) each corp stack is 'related' (CP bonus, ...) to an army stack but is a distinct counter
4) divisions are created within a stack. So a division can be part of 'army stack', a 'corps stack', an 'independant stack'
5) Bonus and special habilities generaly apply to:
- the 'stack you are in' (hopital, baloon, transmission, ...)
- the division you are in (sharpshooters, ...)

[GrudgeBringer]

Thank You and all that have responded to this thread whether WITH questions or RESPONDING with answers.

For my part I believe (hope is a better word) I finally have a clue to the specialty units and how they can benifit the player.

If anyone has anything else to add or other questions, By all means go ahead and ask because thier are some wiley 'ol' vets on here that know all the ins &outs!!

[lodilefty]

Here's a reference I made from latest database:

Appliance column tells you where the ability applies:
'Group' means the stack
'Leader' means must be the stack commander (usually the Senior Officer)
'Self' means that 'element' only gets the attribute
'Unit' is best understood as 'Brigade' or 'Division' gets the ability.

So, Sharpshooter is 'Unit', which means only the Brigade or Division gets the benefit. If it's one of the single-element sharpshooters, the ability only affects him, until he gets 'built in' to a Division. Other divisions or brigades in the 'stack' do not gain the ability.

I'm not sure I fully understand the 'Self' application, but I think it means only that element, so not even the Brigade or Division gains as a whole.

Note that some of the text descriptions don't exactly match the 'tooltip' you get in the game. Methinks the tet descriptions are legacy from earlier versions. They are only 'design info' and don't do anything...

[Pubcrawler]

Very nice lodilefty!

[Major Tom]

...what I was asking is 'IF I make a generic HQ and givit it to a lower seniority (Lower number) and then ship him off to Tenn will that satisfy the rules.

Yes, this works and lets you get around the VP and NM penalty. But as the South you will find this a problem, as HQ's are very limited in availability and also very expensive.

It's much more viable to do this as the NOrth, especially with McClellan because the penalty for passing over him is just too great. Go ahead and give him the army of Norhter Virginia, then park him somwhere with no troops under him and create a new HQ unit to give to better general. Problem is, for the Union, better 3* generals are scarce.

Even with a semi-permanently army commander like McClellan you can still get things done by using Corps commanders and putting all your strngth under them. Just park McClellan somwhere within command radius of his Corps commanders and let them do the work while he trains conscripts. Also, you can keep him nearby to transfer low cohesion units to -- his specail Good Army Administrator ability helps them recover cohesion faster.

One more note -- the VP penalty for bypassing a more senior leader seems less and less significant as the game goes on, because VP are cumulative over time. A 200 VP penalty looks huge in 1861; not so much in 1862.

edit - I just realized I answered a question from a year-old post! I thought it was from Jan 2008!

[Major Dilemma]

If you want to avoid the penalty for promoting Lee to Army Commander give a couple units to Johnston and send him somewhere where he will lose the battle. Then his seniority will drop and presto Lee has seniority.

[Major Tom]

If you want to avoid the penalty for promoting Lee to Army Commander give a couple units to Johnston and send him somewhere where he will lose the battle. Then his seniority will drop and presto Lee has seniority.

But that would be EVIL!

[Gray_Lensman]

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