Supply

[CWNut77]

So I understand that the main supply rules are automated within the game -- but could someone please define for me the strategy behind supply units? Is it their main purpose to be available for depot building?

[Coregonas]

Supply are pushed from "production centers" towards DEPOTS, around 15 movement points far away.

The move depends on the Free Transport assets (1/3...3/3) the more the best

From depots, just nearby (in movement points) units are pushed supply, think 1 area far from the depot.

Wagons are doing DEPOT fucntions, so they get the supply farther than regular units.

Also, they add +10% bonus in combat.

[Banks6060]

Think of Supply wagons as your travelling supply depots.

As long as your army is connected to a depot via rail and is between 3 and 5 regions from it (depending on the weather and other factors) your supply wagons will remain full as supply is automatically pushed forward to them.

Once you LEAVE your rail network, or over-extend your supply line to the nearest supply depot....that's when your supply units begin to deplete.

Supply units also provide a fire bonus in combat for your troops.

They protect your troops in harsh weather if your troops aren't in a region with a depot or shelter of any other kind.

they help you build forts (2 supply wagons and 4 arty batteries).

and yes they build depots.

I might have left something out....cheers!

[Jbeoddy]

Let me see if I can help. (And PLEASE IF I GET ANYTHING OBVIOUSLY WRONG, SOMEBODY CORRECT ME!!!!)

At the top of the screen is a set of 'information blocks' which tell you how much money, manpower, war supplies, general supplies, and ammunition you get each turn. Took me a while to figure out, but if you rest your cursor over a region, another set of info blocks appears below these which tell you how much of each of these this particular region supplies to those totals.

So, "supply" is generally the 'general supply' category, which I envision as 'food', uniforms, boots, buckles, buttons, and so on, plus ammunition. Now any given region produces only a tiny fraction of the total. (As an example, the CSA generally produces about 30 conscript points per turn and these are produced in only certain 'structures' which may be identified by having little white 'tents' in the 'town square'. These I envision as recruitment centers. Only Richmond produces more than two, although that CAN be altered by the placement of an officer with the 'recruiting officer' trait. And the rest come from diverse places scattered all across the map, one per state, as near as I can determine. Similarly, War Supplies are produced in only certain regions, in this case, always with structures. General Supplies and Ammunition are more spread out, but again are produced in specific regions. Thus, say, Winchester, VA produces perhaps 16 general supply and 8 ammunition points per turn. NOT enough to supply a major army for any length of time. Manassas on the other hand, while it produces the same amount (and these amounts may be different, I'm just offering a scenario) and shows this in the lower set of info blocks at the top of the screen, it ALSO says that the available stocks are much higher say, 67 and 40, if you rest the cursor over the structure itself. This is because it has a depot, which are generally found along major transport lines, such as railways or navigable rivers. (OR wherever you happen to decide to build one, such as, say, at a 'chokepoint' for supply. Which would be a region along a major transportation line, such as a railroad, which has no level 3 or above structure or depot and therefore cannot forward supply during the 'supply phases'. Also known as 'the place where supplies go to die'. )

Where does all that extra supply come from? All that 'general supply' produced in places like Savannah, GA, or Birmingham, AL gets collected, if surplus to the regional needs, it is 'sent forward' to where it's needed. Locally, this might be anywhere from 3 to 5 regions, depending on weather, the type of transportation available to move it, and the percentage of control of the region. For areas farther away, transport is ALWAYS by rail or riverine transport. As I understand the method, the number of transport of a particular type, say rail, is taken, the number of units of that type that are dedicated to moving troops is subtracted, and the remainder is available to transport supply. (I'm unsure of the mathematical algorithm used, as in 'how much supply per unit of transport, but hopefully you get the idea.)

This supply transport is handled in 'phases', (these show up during the turn resolution as 'Supply Phase 1' through 'Supply Phase 5' up at the top of the screen.) Now I'm treading on a bit thinner ice, but if I understand it, in phase one, it moves supply forward up to 5 regions, if there is available transport AND there is a level 3 or above structure OR a depot within that range. If there is no level 3 or above structure or depot, then no supply can transit that route. It will test all the available routes and move supply forward on those that meet the test. This repeats from the new locus (the point to which supply was moved in the previous phase) to another level 3 structure or depot within a maximum of 5 regions in each succeeding phase until either the maximum number of phases have occurred or the front lines have been reached.

The 'maximum 5 region' rule applies to rail or riverine transport, if I understand it correctly. If using road transport, I believe the maximum is 3 regions; if no road, rail or navigable river exist then I believe the maximum is one region.

Supply wagons represent the army 'train' which was a bunch of physical wagons (hence the representation, how historically accurate! ) These got loaded up with food, clothes, medicine, boots, buckles, hats, coats, bibles, sergeants chevrons, officers braid, and what not, and trailed along behind the army to resupply them as they marched. IF the army with which they are traveling is within 'supply range' of a level three structure or a depot, (from three to five regions over which the side that army is associated with exerts some minimum level of control and depending on both weather and the type of transportation available), then the wagons remain 'full'. (I envision this as wagons shuttling back and forth to some supply head, a rail depot, river pier, or a town.) If not, the contents of the wagons begin to be drawn down, represented in the game by the number of boxes and barrels shown on the unit being reduced from two each to one each to none. If there are sufficient supply wagons available, then in a situation such as a siege within enemy territory the individual supply wagons may be shuttled back and forth to the nearest supply head in a 'rotation' which provides the army with it's supply. (I believe that this represents some of the 'micromanagement' that generates so much comment on here. )

I believe this is a reasonably accurate description, although there are little 'fillips' such as that the Union player may use transport ships in place of a 'supply head'. (An army relying on this still needs to have supply wagons with it, but the ships apparently may take the place of a 'level three structure or depot'). (And the transport ships have to be shuttled back and forth to some port to 'refill', unless the player puts them in the Atlantic Shipping Box, in which case, they are apparently assumed to be shuttling supply to the army in question.) This is very useful for amphibious invasions.
The same sort of thing is theoretically possible with river transports (the physical ones represented by ships that are purchased as units, not the 'riverine transport' represented in the transportation assets,) but I've not seen it used by the AI and have never had occasion to try to figure out how the mechanics of it worked on my side.

I've probably got half this wrong, but for what it's worth, here it is. Hope it helps.

[Jabberwock]

This is the best description of how supply works that I've seen. Can you add it to the Wiki?

[Jbeoddy]

I would if I knew how. (And if I wasn't terrified that I've misstated something, or left out a whole bunch of significant stuff. )

[Jbeoddy]

For instance, in looking at the posts that were made while I was writing, I see that I've omitted that the supply wagons provide a 10% combat bonus, that they provide protection from the elements for armies not in regions with friendly structures, (by trading supplies for 'hits'), AND that you can use them to build depots! (and, along with some artillery, forts). <sigh>

[Jabberwock]

I haven't seen/heard anything from Rafiki in a few days. When he gets back, he will definitely want to add this, and help post it. The beautiful thing about wikis is that if you miss or mistate something you (or somebody else) can edit it later.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Pocus]

Jbeoddy you are very close to the exact algorithm.

There are 3 phases. The segments indicated during the supply phase is only to tell you the calculation is still being done, and only correspond to 0.5 to 0.75 seconds of computing, nothing more.

In a phase, a source can forward to a distance of up to 5 regions the supply. Even by mule. Rail and River are useful because they lower the cost of the terrain, and thus allow to reach in all cases targets 5 regions away, even in mud or bad weather. On the other hand if supply is moved by mule&horses, 5 regions can only realistically be reached if the weather is fair and there is a road. Expect 3 or even 2 regions if bad weather and hilly terrain.

Sources are depots or city of level 3+
Destinations are depot, city of level 3+, forts or wagons. Military units ARE NOT destinations.

How the supply is spread is the core of the algorithm. It tries to guess intelligently, and is constrained by the 'magnet factor' of the destinations. Depot = big magnet. Valid target in a region with a lot of troops: medium magnet. Little city without troops: you'll only get a few supply.

Sources don't deplete themselves too. They keep ample supply.

In the end you have a grid of sources and destinations, equilibrated with an iterative approach. If you have a bottleneck, or a black hole (aka big troops at the end of the chain), the supply net will not be able to compensate all the needs.

Not a single supply point is teleported or created from nothing during the phase. If a wagon is replenished to 100%, it means there was enough supply point forwarded to him.

That is about supply distribution. We have not talked about military units for now, just how supply is distributed.

Then you have supply consumption. Troops will draw supply from stocks which are in their region OR adjacent. And not further away. So the use of wagon as mobile targets for the supply net. Or the starving of a militia if not adjacent to a town.

Please update the wiki accordingly.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Loops]

Sources are depots or city of level 3+
Destinations are depot, city of level 3+, forts or wagons. Military units ARE NOT destinations.

[emphasis added]

Aren't cities of any size a destination? I thought supplies (a few at least) could be delivered to even a level 1 city (or indian village) if a depot or big city was in range. Maybe I'm just crazy though.

[Jbeoddy]

I just read Pocus' reply and I stand corrected. Also, I'd COMPLETELY forgotten about terrain effects. <sigh>

After reading Pocus' statement, I'm guessing that the primary reason that the big cities are the main sources is that this is where 'excess to local needs' amount of supply is generated. (Looking at the 'regional info boxes' seems to bear this out.) But I could swear I've seen significant amounts of supply begin to be generated in cities smaller than level 3. (I usually play the CSA, and one of my strategies is to invest in light industrialization in Texas and Arkansas as these are very inexpensive. And leave it on all the time. Which may not do a lot in the short run, but over the course of 2 or so years can generate IMPRESSIVE amounts of War Supplies, General Supplies, and Ammo. And when these increase, a message saying 'Craftsmen of <name of place> have managed to increase <type of supply> by <number of points>. Then if I look at the 'regional info box' for that particular region, it will show increased supply of that type. This is also typically reflected in the stats shown by 'hovering' over the structure. (I've never seen it increase supply of any type except in regions with a structure.) And I'm fairly sure I've seen some of the small cities out west produce some significant amounts of supply, particularly general supply. )

I do have a question, relating to the terrain. In northeastern Tennessee, northwestern Georgia, southeastern Kentucky and southwestern Virginia and southern West Virginia there are some truly impressive mountains. On the game map, these are represented as 'impassable terrain', with the only opening corresponding to the Cumberland Gap. (How incredibly historically, not to mention geographically, correct!! ) Most of my understanding of how supply works was gained 'empirically', (that is, I tried stuff to see if it would work. ), and I don't think supply will move through such areas at all. Is this incorrect? Whenever I start having to mess around in that area, the only thing I've figured out that would work was to build a depot in the only 'passable terrain' region in the area and then build depots every two regions from there to about the Ohio river (going North) or to a line about even with Montgomery Alabama (going South). Otherwise, I run out of supply every time. I've had entire armies vaporize while sitting on a depot because it drained of supply and never refilled.

[Banks6060]

I think something which is very undervalued by many CSA players in this game is the ability to produce Ammo and General Supply when you invest. Even if you're not building ironworks....the extra bumps in ammo and food really start to add up.

I was getting it handed to me by skibear awhile back as the south. He'd advanced all the way to Atlanta, Richmond, Norfolk, Memphis, New Orleans, taken Arkansas, and Texas, had managed to blockade my entire coastline. and through investment...I was STILL producing 400 - 500 ammo per turn and 1600 - 1800 gen. supply. AND 56 War Supply. Investment in the long term really pays off for the CSA player.

Now you have to manage your operations a little better than I did

Just an interesting thought.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Pocus]

Some precisions:

a) any structure can indeed receive some supply.
b) in case of a very big stock, low level cities can still send supplies.

The distribution is made using a virtual supply wagon, created and destroyed in the supply phase. It travels with all the contingencies and advantages of a land unit, ie it can pass jumplinks too. The exact type of the supply wagon used is referenced in each scenario for each faction, so one can imagine using a faster or slower one for some scenarios, to represent a better logistic system.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Pocus]

yes, its a wagon. If a wagon handled by you can pass, then the supply wagon can.

[CWNut77]

In the meantime, I have issued my first PBEM request

See the PBEM forums for my post

[Kwik E Mart]

I have noticed that if you select the supply overlay on the lower left of the GUI (you will then see cannon balls and crates stacked up next to cities, representing levels of stockpiles) before you execute a turn, you can observe how the levels increase and decrease graphically as the supply phase is executed...it helps me visualize the process and I can check chokepoints, if I know ahead of time where one might exist...

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Jbeoddy]

How COOL! A 'virtual supply wagon'! THAT explains a LOT! Thanks for the explanation. Which also explains why the supply is so minimal through the gap.

[Jbeoddy]

I had never noticed that! That should make it easier to experiment. You can actually SEE what's going on rather than trying to visualize it.

Thanks for the tip!

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Banks6060]

I forget exactly what region represents the Cumberland Gap in-game. Is it the "Huntsville, TN" area?

[Jabberwock]

At the moment, it's Lee, VA with the pass running from Harlan, KY to Scott, VA. The Wilderness Road is drawn about 5 miles too far east, and the decision was to have the gap follow the graphics.