Supply Depots Question

[Leeds]

Have read through the Wiki, startegy guide and all postings - just need a little clarification on when to use and how to use Supply Depots.

My front line units seem to be lacking in full supply, however, I am within 5 regions of a 3 level city and I have more then enough supply at the base.

Is this a bottleneck? How does a Supply Depot thus fix this?

In general, how do I know if I am having bottlenecks at a glance? And how do I know I need to build a depot?

Or as a rule, should I just build depots every 5 regions or so where there are not level 3 cities (or more)?

Thanjs

[Major Dilemma]

First let me say I don't build more than one depot, and that with the riverboats rather than the supply wagons. So I may once again be giving you incorrect and wrong advice but since you asked I would suggest you boost your rail and river transport capacity before embarking on a depot building project. Supplies push outward from the depots in three stages and seems to me it is better to boost your rail and river transport capacity which benefits your whole nation at a fraction of the cost before you spend a lot of resources on a single depot.

Up at the top of the screen you will see an area which shows at a glance how much your transport capacity can do in terms of the three stage push. Once you have the check marks in the right hand column indicating the ability to push on the third stage then i might start building depots with riverboats not wagons. riverboats are much cheaper.

You should also distribute those captured wagons among your forces so they have a store of supply with them wherever they go.

oh one more thing when playing against humans they often enjoy destroying your depots with single cavalry so guard the depots you already have..

[arsan]

Hi!

There are lots of factors that affect the supply distribution, so there is not an easy "perfect rule" that applies to any situation.
By playing you will soon learn to identify bottle necks and to know where you can deploy and advance with your big armies and where not.
Answering your questions, there are some guidelines.

- Rail lines are very important. Supply can flow up to 5 regions away by rail. But without a railroad, it will be much less. Bad whether, lack of roads, difficult terrain can reduce it to just one region away.
- Your rail pool is also very important. Check the 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 figures on the blackboard. With ample rail pool (3/3) supply is able to travel up to 5 region away on each of the three supply segments. If you only have 1/3 capacity you will only use your railroads for supple distribution on the first segment (5 regions away max).
- Your level 3 city (without a depot) is certainly a bottleneck. It can accumulate a lot of supply but not push it forward. You need a depot for "pushing" supply forward.
Even putting a depot there, your forces five regions away will be on the limit of your supply net if they are numerous.
- As a very general rule of thumb i will try to have depots 3 regions away (with railroad connections between them and to your main forces positions whenever possible).
Also, put a supply wagon at least with each of your medium/big stacks. Wagons "pull" supply from nearby structures/depots to the units.

- Also size of yoru armies is very important. Your big armies with several corps will very hard/impossible to supply if deployed in bad terrain, with no railroad and across hills and mountains form your depots.
Your only solution here will be to manually cycle wagons for the army to the depot to refill and back to the army (only a temporary solution) or look for a different axis of advance.
Small forces can find enough supply for them much easier, and live of the meager supply generated by small towns. This way teh can move much more frelly.
But if we are talking of big armies you will need to plan your offensives by looking first at the depot and railroad net.

Hope it helps!

[Leeds]

Ok, Now I am confused more.....

So the rail-line needs to be within 5 regions from the main supply source or from a Level 4 Town (or level 3 town with a depot)?

If I have a Level 4 Town/city, 4 regions away from my primary supply source city is that considered a supply base which units a further 5 regions away can trace too?

If a rail line extends from the main supply source, through a level 4+ town 4 regions away and then extends on another 4 regions, is a unit tracing supply to the extended line in supply or no?

Thanks

[johnnycai]

Hi Leeds,
First off, read
http://ageod.nsen.ch/aacwwiki/Manual:Supply
This is the AGEOD:AACW manual off the wiki page.

I believe you are confusing several different facets of the supply mechanism.

Units and Towns pull supply.
Depots push/pull supply from other depots.
Rail/River transport not used by units during a turn's orders phase, are used to transport supply during the supply distribution phase of the turn. Without enough transport available, you wont be able to receive full supply allotments at depots.
It is easier to visualize this by seeing how the Union for example has its initial depots placed in say Missouri. St. Louis has a depot, if the depot at Rollo exists and the rail and Military control of the regions between St. Louis and Rollo are friendly(>=25%MC will allow supply to pass thru a region), the supply/ammo will pass thru to Rollo if it is needed. The amount received is based on many factors but in general depots receive lots.
Should I also need supply at Springfield Mo. but I have have lost Rollo or had the depot destroyed and my closest depots are at Lexington and St. Louis then its very likely I will have supply problems in the winter when weather, possible lack of military control of regions between my depots and Springfield, and the lack of rail transport makes the transit of supply difficult by reducing the regions supply can move during supply distribution phase. Depots can push supply a max of 5 regions using unobstructed but only 3max without rail.
Remember you need >=25% military control to have supply travel thru a region to the next region your tracing supply thru.

If you have a specific example of supply issues, post it and am sure you will receive lots of help with figuring it out.

[Rafiki]

Hi Leeds,
First off, read
http://ageod.nsen.ch/aacwwiki/Manual:Supply
This is the AGEOD:AACW manual off the wiki page..

Make sure to follow up by also reading http://ageod.nsen.ch/aacwwiki/Supply

[tagwyn]

Arne: is that the "fool on the Hill?" apy:

[Leeds]

Guys, with all due respect, as I posted I have indeed read both of these documents AND culled the entire forum on the issue......

Regardless, please excuse my ignorance.

In essence, does a railroad extend supply if it leads to a supply source whether it be a primary source or a level 4 town? Is 5 regions the maximum supply length of said railroad?

Does a level 4 or above town provide supply if it is attached via railroad to a primary supply source - again is 5 regions the average and maximum supply length?

Let me put it in the form of an example:

If I have a supply source in Cincinatti and a level 4 town 4 regions south......and units in regions 3, 5 and 10 regions south of Cincinatti respectively, which units will be automatically in supply and which units do I need to manually supply via supply depots, etc?

[johnnycai]

In essence, does a railroad extend supply if it leads to a supply source whether it be a primary source or a level 4 town? Is 5 regions the maximum supply length of said railroad?

Yes, provided you have military control in all the regions between them and sufficient railway transport. 3/3 for maximum transport.

Does a level 4 or above town provide supply if it is attached via railroad to a primary supply source - again is 5 regions the average and maximum supply length?

Yes, towns 3+ and harbours 5+ can receive and push supply, but not as much as depots.

If I have a supply source in Cincinatti and a level 4 town 4 regions south......and units in regions 3, 5 and 10 regions south of Cincinatti respectively, which units will be automatically in supply and which units do I need to manually supply via supply depots, etc?

Units in regions dont receive supply from towns that are not adjacent or within their region unless they have supply wagons that do pull supply from available supply sources. Again, military control is required between the source towns and towns with the region needing supply. If the units in the regions 3or5 regions south of Cincinnati are adjacent to Lexington for example then they will receive supply from Lexington and if they have wagons present then they may receive some from Cincinnati also if possible. A region that is 6+ regions away from a depot or supply-forwarding city like Cincinnati wont receive supply/ammo at all.

[Banks6060]

I'll TRY to simplify all this...

By the time you end your turn...if you have:

rail or river transport capacity of 3 -- Supply will move up to 15 regions by rail and and river.

rail or river transport capacity of 2 -- Supply will move up to 10 regions by rail and and river.

rail or river transport capacity of 1 -- Supply will move up to 5 regions by rail and and river.

Check the supply filter, it will shade, in green, all regions through which your supply CAN pass. Not that it necessarily WILL. (i.e. damaged rails, bad weather, etc. etc.)

Supply wagons will only PULL supplies from whatever nearby sources it can find.

Depots will not only PULL supplies from a source. They will store it to be PUSHED forward later.

Supply wagons also see depots as a supply source and will pull supplies from them when it's available.

In summation:

Depots are a way to get supplies forward to the large front line armies that need it. Otherwise...without your chain of depots...those armies' supply wagons will desperately be pulling supplies from every nearby production center...or source...which could be as many as 10 to 15 regions away...which likely means they won't get enough. Having a Depot at least 5 regions away from your army...on an unbroken or unblocked rail or river line...will ensure enough supply reaches your army and its supply wagons.

[maqwyn]

What about transports you purchase in economics and transports you build for fleets. Are they different and if so how?

[Rafiki]

River transport bought in the Economics Screen is used for transport of supplies and for riverine movement (when you click that transportation mode for a given stack)

Transports built for fleets can be used for a slightly more protected transport of units, especially since you can send escorts along with them. They can be used to construct depots. Ocean transports that are in the Atlantic Shipping Box provide transport capacity for ocean supplies.

[maqwyn]

Thanks.

[Leeds]

Just to clarify........

River transport: Does it merely act like a depot, extending supply 5 regions along a river?

When you state that supply being extended by rail "as long it has the transport capacity", do you mean the capacity corresponding to the units that need supply or the cost of the supply itself?

Lastly, I understand that Cities generate 8 General supply and 2 in Ammo; How much supply does the average brigade, division require?

Thanks

[Banks6060]

As far as how much supply each unit consumes...I'm not totally sure.

When I say "Transport Capacity"...I mean how much of your transport infrastructure that isn't being used to move units...

What you don't use to move actual units, is abstracted and used to move supply from your production centers, supply depots etc...to the front line areas or wherever else needs it.

Transport Capacity = Available Rail, River, and Ocean transport "points". The available "points" can be found in the top center of your screen, just to the left of the main "Resources Display" (or whatever you want to call that ).

The Transport Capacity display has three columns and four rows with check marks in one of the several columns. Depending on the number of transport "points" you have used (noted in the far right of the display in each row)...check marks will be in one of the columns marked "1/3, 2/3, 3/3".

You'll see little graphics on the left of the display in each of the rows. One graphic looks like a train, another looks like a river boat...the third an ocean ship.

The train signifies rail capacity...the river transport, river capacity...etc...

1/3 = A transport capacity of 1

2/3 = A transport capacity of 2

3/3 = A transport capacity of 3



I hope that helps.

[Major Dilemma]

Hover your mouse pointer (tooltip) over your supply symbol of the force and it will display that particular force's rate of consumption.

[Le Ricain]

Just to clarify........

River transport: Does it merely act like a depot, extending supply 5 regions along a river?

When you state that supply being extended by rail "as long it has the transport capacity", do you mean the capacity corresponding to the units that need supply or the cost of the supply itself?

Lastly, I understand that Cities generate 8 General supply and 2 in Ammo; How much supply does the average brigade, division require?

Thanks

River and ocean transport transfer supply from one depot to another, but is not limited to 5 regions as in land and rail transport. Of course yopu need to have sufficient transport points for the rail and ocean transport.

[Rafiki]

The river transport units work much like supply wagons when it comes to supply. They can attract supply (i.e. pull supply from dpots, cities and other supply sources that are able to forward to them), but they do not send the supply further in the supply network. Once it's time to consume the supplies, the river transport units will share their supply with units in the same and neighboring regions as the river transport.

Cities generate 8 general supply and 2 ammo per city level. Also, you need to factor in any depots, harbors and forts in the city to get the full number of supply generated. Check http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply#Supply_production for details