[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[Kensai]

Hah, good one. I should declare war on you while I can!

[Kensai]

Early March 1877
(excuse me, who did delete the last two months?)

[Ech Heftag]

Hello,
I'm really sorry for the late reply, but since moving I have had a really terrible internet connection and downloading just a few files to the dropbox takes ages. On top of that, I'm really busy with my graduation paper and part-time job so I just don't have the time anymore for multiple PBEM games. I take it there is already a replacement for me? Anyway, all the best for you guys!

[Kensai]

Late March 1877
Indeed Lindi has taken over Italy and made peace as your avatar country had been completely overrun (check out the screenshot in the Diplo thread where its military might was decreased to be comparable of that of Greece...) by the Austrian-Hungarian onslaught. Good luck with your new endeavors, if you ever feel to come back, we can always unlock a smaller country with less burden for you to play now and then.

[nemethand]

Could the host pls run the following script tonight?

Code: Select all


SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Kars

StartEvent = Abolition of the Treaty of Plevna (1877)|1|1|NULL|NULL|

$Kars|NULL

 

Actions
 

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Kars   

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Batumi

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Rhodopos

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Thrakia

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Bulgaria

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Ludogoria

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Rumelia

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Struma

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Ogosta

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

SelectFaction = $TUR

SelectRegion = $Varna

ChangeRgnOwner = RUS

 

Apply



What it does is that it returns currently Russian held Bulgarian territories and Kars and Batumi to Ottoman control.

We were discussing it with Lukas, back when he was still in control of the Ottos, and then with Sir Garnet, and then with joe :-) but have not had the time to create, implement and test the script.

I have not had a chance to test the script, simply reversed the one we used for the transfer of territories back then. I simply have no time to test the script and jope it will work.

Running it tonight would be important since, as I understand, the Balkan crisis / pre Russo-Turkish war events will have a chance to fire from Late APril 1877.

Also, apologies for not answering to recent e-mails but I am extremely busy and family matters (illnesses) also do not allow for much spare time.

[lukasberger]

Austria just demobilized, and I lost two generals that were attached to units that disbanded. I think they'll probably show up again next turn, but if not I'd like to have them scripted back in.

[lukasberger]

What it does is that it returns currently Russian held Bulgarian territories and Kars and Batumi to Ottoman control.

While I think this is a good idea, I'd suggest that there should also be some compensation included for the OE. After all you ended up holding those territories for years and getting financial benefit from them. I dunno what would be fair.

I don't think that we ever ended up voting on the military help you were supposed to end up giving the OE, so they really got the short end of the stick.

No big deal either way, I just don't want to see the OE get too screwed over. Not that I'm implying that you're trying to do so or that it's your fault if they did. It's a weird situation all the way around.

[Kensai]

Early April 1877
I will run the script but I didn't have time to check it out. For starters, I saw it needed an EndEvent command.
(rectifying scripts might be in order the following turns)

Austria just demobilized, and I lost two generals that were attached to units that disbanded. I think they'll probably show up again next turn, but if not I'd like to have them scripted back in.

You probably went over your quotas due to the successful battles. It may be normal if they didn't reappear. Consider them retired as well (in this case).

While I think this is a good idea, I'd suggest that there should also be some compensation included for the OE. After all you ended up holding those territories for years and getting financial benefit from them. I dunno what would be fair.

I don't think that we ever ended up voting on the military help you were supposed to end up giving the OE, so they really got the short end of the stick.

No big deal either way, I just don't want to see the OE get too screwed over. Not that I'm implying that you're trying to do so or that it's your fault if they did. It's a weird situation all the way around.

Fair points, but the Russian Empire seems to do the right thing here. I was about to propose a Bulgarian revolution event AGAINST Russia (adapting the one against the Ottomans) if it insisted to hold the grounds instead of helping Bulgaria form, as it historically happened. So it should be ok, more or less.

[lukasberger]

Early April 1877
I will run the script but I didn't have time to check it out. For starters, I saw it needed an EndEvent command.
(rectifying scripts might be in order the following turns)


You probably went over your quotas due to the successful battles. It may be normal if they didn't reappear. Consider them retired as well (in this case).

No, don't think so. I've had new generals appearing within the last few turns, after any battles were over. These guys were combined with reserved corps that were disbanded when I demobilized and disappeared along with the corps.

EDIT: They showed up this turn. So it's all good.

[lukasberger]

Fair points, but the Russian Empire seems to do the right thing here. I was about to propose a Bulgarian revolution event AGAINST Russia (adapting the one against the Ottomans) if it insisted to hold the grounds instead of helping Bulgaria form, as it historically happened. So it should be ok, more or less.

Yeah, you're right. Especially since the OE is now ai controlled, there's really no need to get too officious. It's nice that Andras is willing to turn the territory back over and fight out the war.

[lukasberger]

Having trouble with Chile. My coal has been stuck on -8 or -9 since I took over again. This in spite of trying to buy all the coal available on the market and even offering to pay extra. Not sure what the problem is.

[Kensai]

There is no problem, I have the same issue as Greece (our secondary nations seem to be low tier buyers, purchasing only when the majors are done: this of course is not only about being major-minor, but also as far as F1 policies go, trade ships in MTB, relationships, etc)... fortunately, since v1.01 or so if there is no coal you can "buy it" with money, thus your industries or ships will not shut down. Remember that these past years we had a huge disruption in the world trade as first France and then Italy were knocked out of the grid (due to their capitals being occupied). So these nations were unable to provide their extra coal into the market (and I don't think Germany and Austria-Hungary offered it)... this last fortnight I noticed Spinoza offered some nice French coal (90 of it!) so you better hurry!

But remember I had also cried out loud about the insane policy of some players to place a tapestry of railroads everywhere (even in deserts!!) without first waiting for late-game inventions of better coal extraction technologies. I suspect we're gonna run in a coal crisis some time in the future, so you better all be economical with your coal reserves...

@nemethand,
I tried to run the script but it had many mistakes so it failed. Will retry tonight.

[coolbean]

Gentlemen, unfortunately I will not be able to submit a turn for the upcoming round.

I was studying for two tests I have today I couldn't find the time to reply to e-mails or complete my PoN turns. If you sent a diplo request to the USA, I wanted to give you a heads up to cancel it.

[De_Spinoza]

this last fortnight I noticed Spinoza offered some nice French coal (90 of it!) so you better hurry!

Yes, France has a big surplus in coal production now considering strikes in several provinces closed down factory production, and several industries were making a loss so were deactivated as well. In any case, I desperately need buyers for my produce - my nation is in quite dire straits. I can't evenmeet my national market needs, makes me wonder how many industries were destroyed by the Germans (perhaps bfjagan can tell me). Anyhow, reconstruction is fun as well, but it will take a while to raise contentment (dropped further under 50s due to the economic crisis) if France is not 'helped' by other nations.

[lukasberger]

So these nations were unable to provide their extra coal into the market (and I don't think Germany and Austria-Hungary offered it)...

But remember I had also cried out loud about the insane policy of some players to place a tapestry of railroads everywhere (even in deserts!!) without first waiting for late-game inventions of better coal extraction technologies. I suspect we're gonna run in a coal crisis some time in the future, so you better all be economical with your coal reserves...

Agreed. I've never built a RR myself in all my time playing in this game. A-H didn't offer any because we have no coal reserves to offer. Even with my mines maxed out I'm still barely holding steady at around 450 coal in reserve.

I suggest we lift the limit on coal mines. If we do so I have another 5-6 mines I could build, and put the product on the world market, which would help the situation out tremendously.

I know you'll be against the idea, Kensai, but what does anyone else think? Should I put up a vote on eliminating the artificial limit on coal mines?

[Jim-NC]

Britain is in the same boat as Austria. I have maxed out our coal mines, and interestingly enough, I can't build the railroads that I would have had in real life (I am running out of coal) in the colonies. The other issue is upgrading industry to factories or plants, or upgrading farms consume a lot of coal and/or mechanical parts. And for everyone interested, Plants seem to require electrical parts, so be careful upgrading factories to plants, or you need a steady supply of electrical parts.

@ De_Spinoza - Britain has unmet requests from it's population as well, this is probably normal, as our nations have such large amounts of requests. I believe that I would have to purchase all of the available supplies of every product to meet my nation's demand. This may be a hold over from the single player game.

I agree with Kensai, that a coal crunch will happen, and I believe it is already here. I want to upgrade/build more production facilities, but I can't due to a lack of coal. I would dearly love to be able to build level 1 farms (that don't require coal), but can't at this time. Thus I must be very economical in my building of structures due to a shortage of coal.

[lukasberger]

So, should we take the coal mine structure limit off?

I think it's kinda silly that we need coal and that I have many more coal deposits (just counted, I could build 16 more mines!) I could exploit but I can't build the mines that would help supply it due to the artificial limit to the amount of mines I can build.

Is there enough support for the idea for me to put it to a vote?

[Boernes]

You could, for example, let other nations build the mines, then buy them as some kind of deal. This wouldnt require fiddling with quotas and stuff

[lukasberger]

You could, for example, let other nations build the mines, then buy them as some kind of deal. This wouldnt require fiddling with quotas and stuff

That could work.

The fiddling with the limits isn't hard though. It's a simple script I could make in five minutes.

[bjfagan]

Germany had a surplus of coal not too long ago and was selling it, but now it has deficit that I have a hard time covering. I have shut down factories to save coal for more critical needs. Also, I have a growing unsatisfied populace demand too. Despite what Vezina said about advancing the technologies that increased consumption, I held off, but now they are coming due and are increasing consumption above what I can fulfill. I believe this is happening everywhere and reducing the availability of most goods. So let the bidding wars and trade wars begin!!

I see no reason why a country couldn't build more mines up to the limit of the resources owned that are available for building. However, the constructions costs should increase dramatically so that it is extremely expensive to continue adding capacity.

@De_Spinoza... I am not exactly sure how many French structures were destroyed. Not very many in France, it would have been close to what was destroyed in Germany, plus military related structures. If I had to guess, I would say a couple mfg goods plants and a couple steel plants, in addition to France's first electrical plant and ammo/military supply factories. Not sure if any shipyards were destroyed. I am pretty sure the food supply was not touched, although there may have been some quid pro quo losses to what France destroyed in Germany. There were many structures lost in Africa because the Germans did not have enough CP to maintain those captured structures.

[lukasberger]

Also, I have a growing unsatisfied populace demand too. Despite what Vezina said about advancing the technologies that increased consumption, I held off, but now they are coming due and are increasing consumption above what I can fulfill. I believe this is happening everywhere and reducing the availability of most goods. So let the bidding wars and trade wars begin!!

No problems with supplying the populace in Austria yet. 94% satisfaction right now!

[lukasberger]

I see no reason why a country couldn't build more mines up to the limit of the resources owned that are available for building. However, the constructions costs should increase dramatically so that it is extremely expensive to continue adding capacity.

Don't they already? Pretty sure they do.

[Kensai]

Late April 1877
retrying nemethand's script

[Kensai]

Agreed. I've never built a RR myself in all my time playing in this game. A-H didn't offer any because we have no coal reserves to offer. Even with my mines maxed out I'm still barely holding steady at around 450 coal in reserve.

I suggest we lift the limit on coal mines. If we do so I have another 5-6 mines I could build, and put the product on the world market, which would help the situation out tremendously.

I know you'll be against the idea, Kensai, but what does anyone else think? Should I put up a vote on eliminating the artificial limit on coal mines?

Put it on a vote, indeed I will definitely downvote it and I urge everyone else to do the same. The situation is not so dire again if you keep coal reserves at 400 levels when my own Japan and Greece fluctuate to negative. You are still well put. Moreover, by making the coal producing artificially high you effectively destroy the game of limited resources which is a big part of the economic dealings and possibly wars. If you have real problems you must first consider shutting down your industries. Even a script to downgrade industrial complexes or disband railroad lines is better than making the game "gamey" (no pun intended) by lifting completely the limits.

At the moment, my advice to everyone, stop building railroads everywhere and focus on industrial complexes in your most valuable regions. If some nations withhold to carpet-bomb with industries and railroads and profit on the higher prices because of the great request, then so be it. Enjoy it, it's part of the game.

[lukasberger]

Put it on a vote, indeed I will definitely downvote it and I urge everyone else to do the same. The situation is not so dire again if you keep coal reserves at 400 levels when my own Japan and Greece fluctuate to negative. You are still well put. Moreover, by making the coal producing artificially high you effectively destroy the game of limited resources which is a big part of the economic dealings and possibly wars. If you have real problems you must first consider shutting down your industries. Even a script to downgrade industrial complexes or disband railroad lines is better than making the game "gamey" (no pun intended) by lifting completely the limits.

At the moment, my advice to everyone, stop building railroads everywhere and focus on industrial complexes in your most valuable regions. If some nations withhold to carpet-bomb with industries and railroads and profit on the higher prices because of the great request, then so be it. Enjoy it, it's part of the game.

I'm not actually worried about Austria. I'm fine for coal. But if I build some more mines I can supply other nations, including Greece, with the coal they need.

The resources are there. In reality there are no artificial limits to the amount of resources that can be harvested. So as long as the resources exist in game, why put a cap on the possibility to use them?

What purpose do the limits serve other than to create an artificial shortage of a resource that's actually in abundant supply?

I knew you wouldn't like the idea as you're reactionary in your opposition to any changes to the game as designed.

Which is fine, that's your prerogative. I've really been addressing this to the other players, to see what they think about it.

[Kensai]

If you want more coal mines in your own country you can always allow countries you have a commercial agreement build them. Without disturbing anything else in the game. The structure limit (together with the force pool), as much as it sounds implausible, is there to abstract the ability of a nation to invest in more structures and units according to its state of the art in technology (including policy). These quotas are the essence of a balanced game, as they are there to portray the historical abilities (and policies): that's why GBR for example can have a huge fleet (as force pool goes) and larger structure pools as well. There are also some other, hidden abilities (historical) for each nation you can find in the GameData folders.

[lukasberger]

These quotas are the essence of a balanced game, as they are there to portray the historical abilities (and policies): that's why GBR for example can have a huge fleet (as force pool goes) and larger structure pools as well.

I actually agree with this.

I wouldn't propose raising the structure in the other game, since that game has been designed to be balanced. But CIE is most definitely NOT balanced, in any way shape or form.

Its been all about pushing the limits of the engine.

We colonized all of Africa in the 1850's, have raised ship caps for nearly every nation, have seen an aggressive GB try to conquer the world and have seen many, many other crazy, a-historical, unbalanced things happen.

So we're far, far past the point of having a balanced game. That ship is out of the bottle and it ain't going back in again.

[lukasberger]

What in the world happened to Austria last turn? Nearly every one of my units took major, major hits. I went from missing around 50 chits last turn to over 3000 missing this turn.

Almost every artillery regiment I have just went from fully green to nearly completely red in one turn. I've never seen anything like this.

[Boernes]

Its either a new technology that replaces some/many elements, or you missed some vital inputs for the army the last turn (mfd goods, steel, officers/conscripts, state funds)

[lukasberger]

Its either a new technology that replaces some/many elements, or you missed some vital inputs for the army the last turn (mfd goods, steel, officers/conscripts, state funds)

My conscripts did get awfully low last turn. Maybe down to 0 even. But I've run turns with 0 officers before and had no issues. Everything else seems fine, so that must be the problem.