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Kensai
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Sun May 26, 2013 10:22 pm

lukasberger wrote:That's fine. The limitation comes in in that when you forget to budget 50 conscripts your losses are so disastrous that it takes 10000 conscripts and abundant money and supplies to rectify the damages. That's the engine limitation that's totally and completely unrealistic. The consequences are something like a factor of 10 greater than the original oversight.

Who said it is so much always and for all nations? I have run out of maintenance more than once myself with Japan and the damages were surely more limited. I suspect the Chinese armies were in bad shape already.

You could say that it's a mutiny, but would troops that are generally well fed and cared for actually mutiny nationwide after not receiving their pay, or replacements, or even all of their food during one two week period? No, not at all.

I could say that it could possibly happen, yes, especially with a nation that fights a losing war and its government asked the recruitment of new formations without taking into consideration the old ones. But it is not up to me to judge this, ask the developers why they set it so. You say it is too much, I say it is too little. Who is right?

As for what to do, yes I'd say give China some free chits that they don't have to pay for. Maybe not enough to cover 100% of their losses but enough to cover most of them.

Again, China has feudal armies. These armies are too cheap and easy to buy chits for. This is not the bottleneck. The bottleneck is the time needed to repair/refit these armies, and China (as well as Japan) do not have time as this becomes escalated with the inclusion of the Westerners.
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Jonathan Pollard
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Sun May 26, 2013 10:32 pm

lukasberger wrote:As for what to do, yes I'd say give China some free chits that they don't have to pay for. Maybe not enough to cover 100% of their losses but enough to cover most of them.


No need. The majority of my losses have already been replaced without any serious damage to the Chinese economy. It seems that the replacements possess the advanced weaponry which China has researched but which new units do not come with, so the "mutiny" may actually end up being a benefit for China.
"Two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge...the FBI...says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." Dan Rather of CBS News, 9/11/2001
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lukasberger
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Mon May 27, 2013 2:47 am

Kensai wrote:Who said it is so much always and for all nations? I have run out of maintenance more than once myself with Japan and the damages were surely more limited. I suspect the Chinese armies were in bad shape already.


No point in continuing the discussion since Jonathan says it's ok. But I will say that I just ran out for the first time as Austria a few turns ago and the damages were shocking. I took over 1000 artillery hits. Infantry wasn't as bad, and I had tons of infantry replacements anyway. But it still took around 20 infantry chits to replace the losses, I think I dropped from having around 110 inf replacements stored to around 90. I literally had to build nothing but arty replacements for 5-6 turns to replace the arty hits. This in a country with a modern military, perfectly maintained, with 99% contentment and with a vast amount of replacement chits already created and stored.

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Kensai
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Mon May 27, 2013 8:42 am

As far as I've seen it depends on how (1) how awful the incident of lack of maintenance was in the first place, (2) if elements were already damaged, and (3) how many chits you already have as it only takes time to "heal the units". China and Shogunal Japan are feudal nations (F1-wise). They have incredibly cheap levy units and very cheap replacements. Battleworthiness is another matter, but I believe Jonathan simply lost a couple of months, not more. Of course, sometimes a single fortnight may be critical!

I don't know exactly what a huge hit might abstract for such losses, you have to ask Philippe. I could say simply mass desertions and mutinies that destroy the equipment. Anyway, I am not to blame here, the devs designed it, we all know how it works, no excuses.
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
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Jonathan Pollard
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:39 am

I'm officially withdrawing as the China player effective immediately, so China is now available.
"Two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge...the FBI...says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." Dan Rather of CBS News, 9/11/2001

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Kensai
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Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:26 am

Haha, why? Because you landed in Fukuoka and saw the katanas arriving from Honshu? Oh come on, one more turn... please! :p
It is so exciting to fight as the underdog and at least having some pixel destruction satisfaction. Won't survive the ordeal in the long run probably, but it will be quite the spanking. :w00t:
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

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