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Jim-NC
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Fri May 17, 2013 11:38 pm

The Lloyd's Company Shipping Container count has been produced for 1877. It can be found in the drop box (under treaties and news).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Sir Garnet
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Sat May 18, 2013 1:23 am

IMPERIO DO BRASIL

The Ministry of Foreign Relations has issued an advisory opinion to parliament based on which it was resolved that it is in the common interest of mankind and in the right of the law of nations that the Suez Canal be maintained as a common thoroughfare open to all in both war and peace, the preservation of which passage should be common cause for all nations to join in its enforcement. The Foreign Minister asks the Great Powers to engage in discussions to assure that any treaty touching on the Canal makes proper provision assuring unrestricted passage of major and minor nations. His Imperial Majesty remains indisposed in recuperation.



----
P.S. In the 20th Century, I was advised the worst insult TO a Russian of that generation would be to call them nekulturny (sp?) which, translated literally, means uncultured. As this touched on long-term cultural sensitivities dating back to Peter the Great's reworking of the country, something similar would have applied in the mid 19thC.

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German Foreign Office Message

Sat May 18, 2013 2:20 am

Due to increasing tensions between two close German allies, Russia and the Ottoman Empire, the German Government has decided to terminate our Defensive Alliances between both countries. This unilateral action will free the Germans from having to choose sides and enable neutral relations with both countries. Many countries of the former Entente and League of Free Nations will note this action has effectively ended the old Triple Alliance.

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Citizen X
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Sat May 18, 2013 9:15 am

bjfagan wrote:Due to increasing tensions between two close German allies, Russia and the Ottoman Empire, the German Government has decided to terminate our Defensive Alliances between both countries. This unilateral action will free the Germans from having to choose sides and enable neutral relations with both countries. Many countries of the former Entente and League of Free Nations will note this action has effectively ended the old Triple Alliance.


This has made any diplomatic effort on our behalf obsolete. We are cancelling the Jerusalem conference.
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Jim-NC
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Sun May 19, 2013 4:50 am

From the British and Portuguese Trade Ministries:

British and Portuguese businessmen have agreed to the sale of the Portuguese coal mine in the region of the East Midlands. British merchants have provided their Portuguese counterparts with extensive goods as part of the deal. Also, the Governments have agreed that Portuguese businessmen can build a new coal mine in Britain (if they so desire). Said Mr. Turnball, "It's a great day t' do business. We'h thank the Portuguese for their investment, and canna wait for more." The Portuguese we spoke with seem happy with the deal.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Kensai
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Tue May 21, 2013 11:42 am

Seoul, Korea, October 1877

CHINA OFFERS THE PROTECTORATE OF KOREA TO JAPAN

After the destruction of the Chinese expeditionary fighting forces in Korea, Empress Dowager Cixi offered to acknowledge Japan as the de jure protectors of the Korean peninsula in an effort to end this Asian war. The Japanese high command thinks this is not enough, though. We also want the colony of Formosa to create an "island buffer" between the Japanese home islands and the Chinese Empire. As long as China does not accept this claim of ours, the war will continue. Field Marshal Aritomo already plans his next moves to convince the Chinese of our positions.
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Jonathan Pollard
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Tue May 21, 2013 1:17 pm

Due to the rejection of our generous peace offer to end the war in Asia by Japan, the Empire of the Great Qing requests the assistance of the USA as mediators in an attempt to arrive at a just and reasonable peace settlement.

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Kensai
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Tue May 21, 2013 2:04 pm

Japan wants peace as well, but it is clear that it wants it under its own terms: a victor's terms. China cannot protect all the Asian populations of the Far East. The Empire of Japan started this war because it saw a weak China (after the latter's defeat in the hands of the Russian Empire) and desired to step in preemptively to protect the Asian communities in its extended sphere of influence. We have no claims whatsoever in mainland China but we want to draw our "protective borders" in the island chain West of Japan. Therefore Japan wants explicitly* the colony of Formosa and the island of Hainan, two island regions that will mark the new borders under our sphere of influence. The Korean protectorate should be released as well, Japan can definitely protect it better than China and make use of its vast resources in keeping up with the industrial needs of our westernizing nation.

If China agrees with said terms, Japan will promise to respect all other mainland regions of China and protect the Qing Empire from any third foreign aggression that might want to delegitimate the throne of Empress Cixi. A further close cooperation in commercial affairs as well as a defensive pact in Asia are highly desired by Tokyo.


(*in game terms Japan's wargoals are: the protectorate of Korea, the colony of Formosa, the objective region of Hainan... all three are potential diplomatic objectives and should appear on the F9 screen of in-game bartering)
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bjfagan
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Tue May 21, 2013 7:01 pm

The German Government is shocked by the outrageous demands of the Japanese. They are indeed an island nation of barbarians who want nothing more than to plunder China and subjugate its people as slaves of a new Shogun Overlord. Germany asks the civilized nations to oppose the harsh terms and put Japan in its proper place. The United States should be at the forefront of stopping this Japanese aggression and help protect the sovereignty of China.

China cannot be left alone to fend off the Barbarian Hordes of East Asia.

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De_Spinoza
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Tue May 21, 2013 8:32 pm

France agrees with the German Government - we are likewise appalled at the harsh Japanese demands. We would not like either Formosa or Hainan to be ruled by an expansionist nation like Japan. The destabilisation of Asia resulting from the harsh Japanese demands is already detrimental to the security of French Indochina. We will deliberate with our U.S. allies to see how this situation can be resolved.

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nemethand
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Muslim atrocities against Christians! Defenseless women and children slaughtered!

Tue May 21, 2013 10:33 pm

St Petersburg, Early Nov 1877

Last month, we heard about unfounded allegations by anynomous Ottoman sources about "Russian guns lent to Bulgarian freedom fighters" and "verbal insults by no-name Russian civil servants".

What we have here today is solid proof about the bloodthirstiness of the Ottoman soldiers against the weak, the poor and the undefended:

[ATTACH]22763[/ATTACH]

(red text event)

The Council of Ministers have been convened and the future course of action is still to be decided. But this much can be said: unless attrocities against Christians immediately cease and those responsible are brought before justice, there will be consequences.
Attachments
Russo Turkish war.png

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Jonathan Pollard
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Tue May 21, 2013 11:21 pm

The Imperial foreign office is publishing the official Japanese response to our peace request.

[ATTACH]22764[/ATTACH]

OOC - I can't read the part that's cut off on the right side. When I click on the buttons that appear to be buttons to widen or narrow the window, nothing happens (the up and down buttons work fine). Is this a known bug or is there a way for me to read what comes after "they believe our strong m..." which I cannot read?

The foreign office also expresses its gratitude to those sympathetic nations who have expressed support for the Chinese cause.

JapTreaty.JPG
Attachments
5902686.jpg

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coolbean
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Wed May 22, 2013 12:22 am

After reviewing the peace terms, the U.S.A. agrees it is indeed very harsh.

Unfortunately, the defensive alliance the U.S.A. holds with China was considered void during the time of the Japanese invasion, due to the intensity of the civil disorder (not player controlled). Fortunately, stable government has returned to China and relations have been re-established, and we look forward to close cooperation with our Chinese allies.

The U.S.A. will be in contact with its allies and China in order to coordinate a cohesive policy on the subject of the Japanese invasion of sovereign Chinese territory.

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Toshimichi memorial exposed -- Japan's plans for world conquest

Wed May 22, 2013 1:40 am

The Imperial intelligence service has obtained a copy of the Japanese strategic planning document which outlines Prime Minister Okubo Toshimichi's plans to take over the world. The November edition of the Chinese publication "時事月報"(Current Affair Monthly) has published the Toshimichi Memorial in its entirety. The memorial contains the assertions:

In order to take over the world, you need to take over China;
In order to take over China, you need to take over Korea, Taiwan, Hainan, Canton, and Shanghai.
If we succeed in conquering China, the rest of the Asiatic countries and the South Sea countries will fear us and surrender to us.
Then the world will realize that Eastern Asia is ours.


As an example, the following excerpt from the Memorial is proof positive that Shanghai is a Japanese objective:

[ATTACH]22766[/ATTACH]

Interestingly, it also shows that Prime Minister Toshimichi in his paranoia erroneously believes that Shanghai is a USA objective. Obviously this is not true, and we have received assurances that the USA would not accept Chinese territory even if it were offered to them as a gift.

In light of this nefarious document, the Imperial government has decided to not abandon the Korean people in their struggle for freedom. [OOC - The offer for peace in exchange for Korea is withdrawn.] The Empress Herself has issued a proclamation which states that "No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated aggression, the Chinese and Korean peoples in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory."
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ShanghaiObj.JPG

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Wed May 22, 2013 9:19 am

Athens, Greece, October 1877

CHRISTIANS SLAUGHTERED IN THE BALKANS

The Greek government is appalled at the extend of the Turkish atrocities in Bulgaria. Although the Greek people are not Slavs, we fully support the independence of their people in these circumstances. The Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs, Montenegrins, even Moldavians have suffered more than enough. The Ottoman Empire should respect the minorities or else the Balkan people will rise in unison to drive them out of Europe! This is not an ultimatum, but the Sublime Porte should be very careful, people are angry to hear their fellow Christians are slaughtered.


-------

Tokyo, Japan, October 1877

JAPAN WILL KEEP WHAT IT HAS CONQUERED

There is no way Japan will back off from the pacified lands it conquered with steel and blood. We had very good reasons we intervened both in Korea and Formosa. These colonies were sources of unrest that interfered with Japanese trade. We do not desire* any other mainland region from China, we prefer the islands which will mark a natural border between China and Japan, given that China has great armies but no serious navy. As a last resort to avoid war with old friends, Home Lord Toshimichi can be convinced to back off the claim on Hainan island, given that the battles there went against us and we are not anymore occupiers of that island. If not, then we should all prepare for the worst...



(*OOC: objective reasons are important, but this does not mean a country has to necessarily obtain them so do not freak out if you see a nation having objective regions in your land or even conflicting SOIs and claimed areas... a player may choose not to get them if he gets enough Prestige points from other sources...)
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Invitation to Inspections

Wed May 22, 2013 10:21 am

nemethand wrote:St Petersburg, Early Nov 1877

Last month, we heard about unfounded allegations by anynomous Ottoman sources about "Russian guns lent to Bulgarian freedom fighters" and "verbal insults by no-name Russian civil servants".

What we have here today is solid proof about the bloodthirstiness of the Ottoman soldiers against the weak, the poor and the undefended:


The Council of Ministers have been convened and the future course of action is still to be decided. But this much can be said: unless attrocities against Christians immediately cease and those responsible are brought before justice, there will be consequences.


Istanbul, Derâliye, Early November 1877

His Imperial Majesty, Sultan Abdülhamit II., strongly rejects the possibility of Turcish atrocities during law enforcement measures against the recent problems of Bulgarian brigands and mercenaries from abroad. The false evidence brought forth by the Russian government a few days ago clearly shows victims of the pillaging vagabonds, those victims being Turcish and Bulgarian subjects of His Majesty alike.
However, we have said it again and again, we are taking our role as garantor of peace and stability on the balcans very earnest. We therefore invite all who have interest into the stability of those regions to form a commission to inspectt hem with their own eyes. We even encourage a Russian representative to that commission.
Should the allegations to any of His Majesty's subordinates be just, they will be prosecuted. Also we are ready to refund any citizen with foreign passport who can lay proof to any material losses committed against him by His Majesty's subordinates.
We are also seek to completly restructure our administration, including the taxation and law enforcement system and have this internationally supervised (ooc: as Midhat Pasha had indeed planned in that decade).
Alas, we believe that the Russian mind is set on a war with the goal to dismantle the just and beneficial rule of the Ottoman Empire and we are not going to give in to any territorial demands. Especially we reject any attempt of any lap-dog to bite off its piece.

Midhat Pasha, First Minister
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Jonathan Pollard
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Wed May 22, 2013 6:50 pm

The Imperial Chinese Admiralty has announced the purchase of three warship squadrons from Holland. This move is expected to significantly strengthen the Imperial Chinese Navy in its war against Japanese aggression.

The attachment 1937-Defeat-Japanese-imperialism.jpg is no longer available


[OOC - Please run the script that I placed in the Scripts Depository Thread.]
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1937-Defeat-Japanese-imperialism.jpg

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Thu May 23, 2013 9:17 am

(these images are amazing, love your roleplaying, Jonathan!) :niark:
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bjfagan
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Thu May 23, 2013 6:33 pm

Jonathan Pollard wrote:
As an example, the following excerpt from the Memorial is proof positive that Shanghai is a Japanese objective:


The Barbarian Hordes of East Asia will never stop until they have devoured all of their objectives. Germany sincerely hopes the Netherlands is capable of helping China fend off the Japanese. For now, it appears China is alone.

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nemethand
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Russian declaration of war

Thu May 23, 2013 7:42 pm

Since the Ottomans have clearly refused to take any appropriate measures to both prevent further attrocities against faithful Christian subjects as well as to effectively punish those being responsible for such injustice, a state of war exists now between the Empire of Russia and the Ottoman Empire.

/s/ Alexandr II,
Czar and Autocrat of All the Russias

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Sir Garnet
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Thu May 23, 2013 8:11 pm

bjfagan wrote:The Barbarian Hordes of East Asia will never stop until they have devoured all of their objectives. Germany sincerely hopes the Netherlands is capable of helping China fend off the Japanese. For now, it appears China is alone.


IMPERIO DO BRASIL

The Foreign Ministry of the Empire of Brazil has been working to reopen discussions with the Qing Empire following the recent reopening of the Qing foreign office in order to ascertain the direction of their economic and foreign policies.

Despite reverses in campaigns overseas and in harsh environs, the power and resilience of the Qing Imperial Army in defense of Chinese home soil has already been repeatedly demonstrated and cannot be doubted.

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Against the usurping barbarians

Thu May 23, 2013 8:56 pm

nemethand wrote:Since the Ottomans have clearly refused to take any appropriate measures to both prevent further attrocities against faithful Christian subjects as well as to effectively punish those being responsible for such injustice, a state of war exists now between the Empire of Russia and the Ottoman Empire.

/s/ Alexandr II,
Czar and Autocrat of All the Russias


Istanbul, Derâliye, Late November 1877

As we have always said, the Russians are beyond reason. Neither have they ever responded to our numerous offers, nor have they ever made any suggestion or put forth any claim. Neither had there ever been proof to back up their allegations.
We trust into the international community to firmly step up against this barbaric aggression and brutalization of an innocent nation, which is clearly aimed to achieve dominion over mankind and civilisation.
However, the Sultan in his wisdom and peaceableness is still open to negotiations.


Midhat Pasha, First Minister

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hell, no! After thinking about it... Ottomans might soon be up for grabs.
Having a hillariuosly outnumbered and outdated military and almost no industry and getting a DOW after 10 turns by several nations including one of the leading nations is not quite an invitation. And absolutly no fun. Had I known that you were going to play this out no matter what I wouldnt have put effort into OE. I was ready to take the challenge of a country so down as this. Thus I offered a diplomatic gameplay to play out the Bulgarian crisis AND get me some time to make this country at least a playable nation. So that everybody could have his fun and I wouldn't need to claim a "spawn protection" of several years which by all means this OE needs, no matter whats been said about it.
Now this DOW, wich will set me back even further and will, if played out, strip me of the rest of my army (which the balcan minors alone nearly match me, given the amount and the equipment of their combined armies) and of a considerable amount of my land and resources. And industry, because my predecessors not only chose to dismantle several factories but also put the one's they built into the bulgarian area, heaven know's why.

This is no fun. Had this situation arised from my misjudgement in the last gameyears or all gameyears I would face it without a hint of complaint. But being encouraged into sticking with it and then getting gangbanged makes me feel abused (oun intended).

Btw. Asking me under these circumstances whether I was "the man" pisses me off big time with all that in mind. I am experienced enough in playing the OE to know what it can accomplish and what not and how it can or should look like in 1877. And actually you can't know if I am a man at all.

Last let me ask you a favour should anybody answer this. Don't come to me with history. I am all into historic gaming and often take the odd countries. But if a chance to alter the historic course is not intended I rather watch a movie.
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bjfagan
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Fri May 24, 2013 12:59 am

Citizen X wrote:Istanbul, Derâliye, Late November 1877

As we have always said, the Russians are beyond reason. Neither have they ever responded to our numerous offers, nor have they ever made any suggestion or put forth any claim. Neither had there ever been proof to back up their allegations.
We trust into the international community to firmly step up against this barbaric aggression and brutalization of an innocent nation, which is clearly aimed to achieve dominion over mankind and civilisation.
However, the Sultan in his wisdom and peaceableness is still open to negotiations.


Midhat Pasha, First Minister

---------------------------------------------------------------

Hell, no! After thinking about it... Ottomans might soon be up for grabs.
Having a hillariuosly outnumbered and outdated military and almost no industry and getting a DOW after 10 turns by several nations including one of the leading nations is not quite an invitation. And absolutly no fun. Had I known that you were going to play this out no matter what I wouldnt have put effort into OE. I was ready to take the challenge of a country so down as this. Thus I offered a diplomatic gameplay to play out the Bulgarian crisis AND get me some time to make this country at least a playable nation. So that everybody could have his fun and I wouldn't need to claim a "spawn protection" of several years which by all means this OE needs, no matter whats been said about it.
Now this DOW, wich will set me back even further and will, if played out, strip me of the rest of my army (which the balcan minors alone nearly match me, given the amount and the equipment of their combined armies) and of a considerable amount of my land and resources. And industry, because my predecessors not only chose to dismantle several factories but also put the one's they built into the bulgarian area, heaven know's why.

This is no fun. Had this situation arised from my misjudgement in the last gameyears or all gameyears I would face it without a hint of complaint. But being encouraged into sticking with it and then getting gangbanged makes me feel abused (oun intended).

Btw. Asking me under these circumstances whether I was "the man" pisses me off big time with all that in mind. I am experienced enough in playing the OE to know what it can accomplish and what not and how it can or should look like in 1877. And actually you can't know if I am a man at all.

Last let me ask you a favour should anybody answer this. Don't come to me with history. I am all into historic gaming and often take the odd countries. But if a chance to alter the historic course is not intended I rather watch a movie.


So, does this mean you are quitting?

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Fri May 24, 2013 3:17 am

OOC: The Ottomans have been in a sticky wicket before as part of several epic wars, relying on allies for their succour. The governments of most of the Great Powers have been shaken up over recent years and and new orientations or a concert may emerge. I would hope there is active diplomacy among the major powers.

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Fri May 24, 2013 8:04 am

bjfagan wrote:So, does this mean you are quitting?


Just had to vent my frustration. I am sticking with Colombia, of course . OE isn't worthwhile in this game. I simply can't make up for what happened with it in the last 27 gameyears, it is too far behind Note that everything cost more and takes longer to get built, so it will take 10 - 15 years till it stands on its own feet. Gonna send in a gamefile tonight nonetheless. I might still proof myself wrong. But I doubt it. Also I am waiting on the claims or suggestions from the Russian government.
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Kensai
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Fri May 24, 2013 9:09 am

The crisis of 1877-78 was a major upheaval in the real life as well. It was the first of the attempts from the Balkan nations to get their independence. I sincerely ask you to reconsider and think about minimizing the losses as well as making arrangements with other great powers so this war is small and swift. The Ottoman Empire is in a very strategic location and I believe many nations (especially the great powers) will have good reasons to keep it intact and on their side. A "Muslim block" of nations such as Turkey, Egypt, Persia, Oman, etc could be formidable under a crafty Ottoman player. I know it is difficult, but it can be done. You simply need to be patient. I think that the Russian involvement in this war is mainly (as per history) to create the independent state of Bulgaria, I seriously doubt it has more wargoals than that.

Btw, as expected... IC:

Athens, Greece, December 1877

GREECE STANDS BY ITS ORTHODOX BRETHRENS

The Bulgarian cause has aroused many God-fearing men in Greece and united the nation behind the mission to free our claimed lands where many ethnic Greeks have lived for centuries. Greece demands the regions of Epirus and Thessaly from the Sultan, to be annexed to mainland Greece. We also stand behind the Russians for the creation of a free Bulgaria in the provinces ethnic Bulgarians are a majority. It is time for the Porte to respect the Balkan populations and stop abusing them. The King of Greece has signed a general mobilization order and has asked the Ottoman plenipotentiaries to be notified of the coming state of war between our nations.


Image

(the region of Epirus is in full color and not striped since a revolt had happened last time Greece had war with the Ottomans and temporarily seized Epirus... it should be striped as claimed area, mouse over in game for the ethnic percentages)

---

Tianjin, Mainland China, November 1877

JAPANESE TROOPS LAND ON MAINLAND CHINA

General Saigo Tsugumichi has landed with four divisions of marines and lots of supplies and auxiliaries troops to the port town of Tianjin. The previous days, artillery fire had been exchanged from our naval blockading force and the coastal artillery of the the fort. The provincial Chinese force was caught by surprise and even its highly capable General* was not able to avert the swift defeat by our superior artillery**. A relief force marching from a nearby region was stopped as well. Will Empress Cixi negotiate now? We are only a few days of march from her Palace...

We have already backed off from one of our war goals (the remote island of Hainan). We only want to keep what we have conquered in Korea and Formosa, after China's inability to control its vassals there.


Image


OOC:
*I believe that Generals with the "genius" attribute are the best: +1 strategy, +1 initiative, +5 frontage bonus... awesome indeed! Ma Xiniy (historically already dead) was one, but it was not enough probably as the forces he commanded were weak...
**I see no "melee battle" so I presume only artillery fired before the defenders disengaged
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Fri May 24, 2013 10:33 am

DIARIO DE JANEIRO

Regulation of New Business Urged in Parliament: Political sentiment in the major cities increasingly recognizes the folly of many new businessmen, whose "investments" are mere speculation that usually turns out badly. Some blame the immorality of modern days, others radical revolutionary literature from Europe, and yet others see this as a "fever" of a busy trading economy that should be curbed. Despite the waste involved, the economy continues on a sound foundation, and these speculations are not responsible for business closures prompted by conditions of trade.

Alarm Over Japanese Landing In China: Shocking news of the landing of Japanese troops on the Chinese mainland and the occupation of Brazilian-built facilities near Tientsin has inspired fears of disruption of trade and commercial operations as well as the loss of peaceful stability in East Asia. The Russian Empire holds Manchuria, blocking Qing supply lines home. Complicity in the destruction of Qing armies in Korea indicates the Chinese can expect no help from that quarter. The Qing Imperial government appears disengaged with other major powers, none of which other than Japan seem to have taken an interest. Protests to the Foreign Minister have prompted the ambassador of the Kingdom of the Netherlands to be called upon for consultation regarding the East Asian situation.

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Fri May 24, 2013 1:10 pm

The Imperial Ministry of Defense reports that Japanese aggressors have not learned from their previous fiasco at Hainan and have landed at Tianjin and besieged the fortified city. Our gallant forces have managed to inflict a serious blow against the Japanese naval forces supporting the invasion. Nearly half of those ships have been sunk or seriously damaged. The High Command expresses confidence that the gallant forces under General Ma that are besieged in the impregnable fortress of Tianjin will soon be relieved.

[ATTACH]22793[/ATTACH]
Attachments
JapFleet.JPG
"Two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge...the FBI...says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." Dan Rather of CBS News, 9/11/2001
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Fri May 24, 2013 5:49 pm

Citizen X wrote:Just had to vent my frustration. I am sticking with Colombia, of course . OE isn't worthwhile in this game. I simply can't make up for what happened with it in the last 27 gameyears, it is too far behind Note that everything cost more and takes longer to get built, so it will take 10 - 15 years till it stands on its own feet. Gonna send in a gamefile tonight nonetheless. I might still proof myself wrong. But I doubt it. Also I am waiting on the claims or suggestions from the Russian government.


Have you talked with your Persian allies? It would be in their interest to assist you against Russia.

I understand your frustration completely as a past OE player. The OE is extremely backward and has been badly abused by some of the rapacious, poor players with delusions of grandeur that have unfortunately controlled some of the major nations in the past. When I took over in 1870, playing till 1873 ish the country had been nearly ruined by its previous player, the army was nearly destroyed, the economy in shambles etc.

By the time I had begun to rebuild the army the previous British player chose to attack the OE hoping to claim some of their Arabian land. Ridiculously a-historical, petty and just generally moronic. He didn't use diplomacy just focused his entire army on me and attacked with no warning, discussion, anything.

Then when I actually fought back he destroyed the Ottoman industry in every province he invaded. Even launching suicide raids where he landed armies that were quickly destroyed just so he could destroy more industry. Then when peace came, the players in charge of the big nations objected to the "exorbitant" peace demands of the OE and its allies so much that I finally agreed to accept only 2500 PC as part of the deal after asking for 5000 when in fact I'd lost 15-20000 worth of factories. 10+ factories had been completely leveled.

To get help from Germany and keep Russia from attacking too I had to make a deal with Russia where I gave them all the land that I was going to lose in this 1877 war anyway in exchange for permanent Russian friendship and military support.

I was roundly criticized for making that deal but felt I had no choice. As you can see the OE is in no shape to fight a war, especially when its also had to fight nations that should have been protecting it like GB. nemethand ended up wanting to play out 1877 though, so after he'd held those territories for a few years gave them back to the Oe just before you took over and cancelled the treaty. Which is fine, except that the OE had been so abused that it's in no position to fight any wars.

You might be able to convince nemethand to reinstate the deal I had with him. I'd send him a pm or two on the subject.

So anyway the OE has pretty much been raped multiple times by some of the idiots who were playing major nations, and no one was really willing to help, except Germany. To be fair, none of the nations that have abused the OE so badly are still controlled by the same people. The current players are a much more responsible, sober, historically minded group.

Honestly I think there should have been some worldwide contribution to help the OE rebuild its economy after the British debacle.

So I feel your pain. Under different circs I'd use Austria to assist you. If it wouldn't precipitate a war with a nation I have good relations with in Russia and put me against a nation I'm building very close ties with in Greece, not to mention completely wreck Russia and Austria's military in a game that's already had two world wars in 25 years and could easily have a third or fourth at the drop of a hat..

I really think your best plan is to try to convince nemethand to reinstate the deal I had with him.

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 24, 2013 5:54 pm

Kensai wrote:The crisis of 1877-78 was a major upheaval in the real life as well. It was the first of the attempts from the Balkan nations to get their independence. I sincerely ask you to reconsider and think about minimizing the losses as well as making arrangements with other great powers so this war is small and swift. The Ottoman Empire is in a very strategic location and I believe many nations (especially the great powers) will have good reasons to keep it intact and on their side. A "Muslim block" of nations such as Turkey, Egypt, Persia, Oman, etc could be formidable under a crafty Ottoman player. I know it is difficult, but it can be done. You simply need to be patient. I think that the Russian involvement in this war is mainly (as per history) to create the independent state of Bulgaria, I seriously doubt it has more wargoals than that.



The problem is that due to the recent wars, and alliances, the Ottoman Empire stands alone. The only major that could join it is Austria. The rest of us have NAPs (UK, France, US), or are avowidly neutral (Germany), or in/recently out of a war (Italy/Japan). There is no help from the majors. The Ottoman Empire will have to rely on minor powers that would be willing to take it's side (if there are any), who aren't being threatened by a major (that makes for a small list - I can only think of 1 that fits the bill).

The Ottoman player will need great diplomacy skill to get even 1 nation to join it's fight.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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