[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[lukasberger]

I had the impression that they go to negative and pay the difference next semester. If so is the case, then we might need to put the evaluate diplomats condition in all scripts next time.

Can't do so. See my vote and the several times I've posted about this. The OE doesn't generate new dips anymore. 0 per semester, it's been that way for one or two years now.

[nemethand]

Can't do so. See my vote and the several times I've posted about this. The OE doesn't generate new dips anymore. 0 per semester, it's been that way for one or two years now.

Then some diplomats should be scripted in. Having no diplomats mean you are out of the diplomacy part of the game.

RE: about events not firing and not sending a message:

I think all the examples mentioned (Brazil, Spain, Greece) were "customized", i.e. all those laws were added by Kensai and co. and was not there orignially. So, maybe, receiving a message for failure also needs to be "scripted" (added). However, message for success is received by everyone.

[Kensai]

Did the Sultan change these past two years? This is rather strange... Only China had that problem before (kind of WAD considering it got a 2-2-2 ruler for almost the rest of the game).

[lukasberger]

Nope, same Sultan.

[lukasberger]

Think the OE's at 8-2-2 (or possibly 6-2-2).

[Ojodeaguila]

Then some diplomats should be scripted in. Having no diplomats mean you are out of the diplomacy part of the game.

RE: about events not firing and not sending a message:

I think all the examples mentioned (Brazil, Spain, Greece) were "customized", i.e. all those laws were added by Kensai and co. and was not there orignially. So, maybe, receiving a message for failure also needs to be "scripted" (added). However, message for success is received by everyone.

1. I will check if I lose NM when I try the general conscription.

2. Anyone know how can I end the carlits war?, I eliminate all his armies and take his provinces but the war continue, and I cant demand all his provinces in a peace deal.

[Soulstrider]

Honestly I have no idea how the French managed to assault that fort in the first turn and give me such a defeat as Belgium.

[PhilThib]

2. Anyone know how can I end the carlits war?, I eliminate all his armies and take his provinces but the war continue, and I cant demand all his provinces in a peace deal.

The Carlists will never negotiate peace with 'Traitors'... the event works the same way as the 'End of Civil War' for USA, it's unconditional surrender and fight to the death.

Here are the events conditions:

SPA EvalSubUnitCount <=|100
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Catalunya
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Valencia
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Aragon
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Ebro
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Castilla La Nueva
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Castilla La Vieja
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Andalucia
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Mancha

In fact, there is a bug inside the event, it will never trigger as such...or in such a condtion that you would commit suicide... the trick is the 1st line, it says it will trigger if SPA has less than 100 elements.....arghh...it should be the Carlists (CRL), not Spain...

The other conditions are province control, which Spain should achieve.

So as it is now, you are doomed, it will never be peace. Event must be fixed first. I shall send a fix suggestion to Kensai then.

Sorry about this

[Sir Garnet]

Yes, please advise re the Carlist fix - they should be trouble that goes away if diligently dealt with!

[Ojodeaguila]

The Carlists will never negotiate peace with 'Traitors'... the event works the same way as the 'End of Civil War' for USA, it's unconditional surrender and fight to the death.

Here are the events conditions:

SPA EvalSubUnitCount <=|100
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Catalunya
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Valencia
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Aragon
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Ebro
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Castilla La Nueva
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Castilla La Vieja
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Andalucia
SPA EvalRgnOwned $Mancha

In fact, there is a bug inside the event, it will never trigger as such...or in such a condtion that you would commit suicide... the trick is the 1st line, it says it will trigger if SPA has less than 100 elements.....arghh...it should be the Carlists (CRL), not Spain...

The other conditions are province control, which Spain should achieve.

So as it is now, you are doomed, it will never be peace. Event must be fixed first. I shall send a fix suggestion to Kensai then.

Sorry about this

Thanks for the Info.

[coolbean]

Honestly I have no idea how the French managed to assault that fort in the first turn and give me such a defeat as Belgium.

The French troops have a lot of experience. And most likely France is much farther advanced than Belgium in military techs, which may also be a factor. I hope Germany promised a lot to Belgium, because even if France loses, it looks like Belgium is going to lose every unit it owns. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing Belgium doesn't get a lot of conscripts per turn, it will most likely take the rest of the game to build up a force of the size it currently owns.

EDIT: I forgot, there is also an overcrowding rule. So if a fortress has too many soldiers in it, they have a much reduced effectiveness, this may also have been a factor.

[Kensai]

Early December 1873. Running Philippe's corrective Carlist script as well...

[lukasberger]

EDIT: I forgot, there is also an overcrowding rule. So if a fortress has too many soldiers in it, they have a much reduced effectiveness, this may also have been a factor.

I'm guessing that was the deal. It's why Germany and the OE were able to storm Jerusalem with almost no casualties when Jerusalem was held by 8000CP of British troops.

[Ojodeaguila]

Early December 1873. Running Philippe's corrective Carlist script as well...

Thanks for you and Phillipe

[Kensai]

I was not aware that the anti-overcrowding rule was doing what you say. I thought it only gave proportionally higher "besieging" casualties when under siege. But not assault penalties for the defenders. A nice, positive surprise.

On the other hand, if troops are of equal size more or less, I like how the game portrays stalemates: as between GER and FRA.

[bjfagan]

On the other hand, if troops are of equal size more or less, I like how the game portrays stalemates: as between GER and FRA.

I don't...

[Sir Garnet]

Who wants to be the one who famously said "never get in a land war in Europe"?

[Soulstrider]

I guess I don't have much to do now but capitulate. This war was an exercise in disaster for me.


It only took me an handfull of turns to turn Belgium from a prosper country into a miserable mess, I should learn not to be so greedy.

[Vezina]

Forgot to upload my orders. No turn from me today. I'll send the peace to Spain next turn.

[Kensai]

You can upload them now if you have them ready, I forgot myself too and uploading now. Late December 1873 in 10'.

I don't...

I read the release notes for v1.03 and it probably works as I suspected. Meaning it has nothing to do with assaults. France probably won the assault easily because of the overwhelming forces it had in the area.

It only took me an handfull of turns to turn Belgium from a prosper country into a miserable mess, I should learn not to be so greedy.

I don't think France or Germany or anyone else has an interest in destroying Belgium, a potential buffer zone. So do not worry. I believe as you go up the food chain you risk more. The bigger you already are, the louder the splash when you fall...

[Sir Garnet]

I suppose some people were fortunate enough to be distracted from their gaming on Valentine's Night by other entertainments . . .

[Lindi]

Because I am not try to abused of PON

Bug or normal ?

this up pop after many fight maybe the Egypt not have technology of big country before 1890 so now is up because 1890 troop of egypt is equal of 1870 prussia troop?

[ATTACH]21643[/ATTACH]

[Jim-NC]

Regions with Bogus 101% British Loyalty - I noticed the following regions have 101% British loyalty:

Ankara - 860
Burdur - 858
Kilikya - 867
Mugla - 854
Urfa - 871
Syria - 800
Suez - 477
Dumyat - 476
Quairo - 478

These need British CP removed.

[Kensai]

Thanks, this is an artifact of how the non-national regions work in CP. if others have regions to report let me know and will run the corrective script. Nonetheless please bear in mind this is already innocuous as far as I know.

Lindi, thanks for reporting that, but it seems normal. Many nations get future models, the dates of appearance are not exact.

[Lindi]

Thanks, this is an artifact of how the non-national regions work in CP. if others have regions to report let me know and will run the corrective script. Nonetheless please bear in mind this is already innocuous as far as I know.

Lindi, thanks for reporting that, but it seems normal. Many nations get future models, the dates of appearance are not exact.

ok thank =)

[coolbean]

USA POPULATION PROBLEM
[HR][/HR]

Hey all, could someone with more experience and knowledge in the inner workings of the game shed some light on any events related to increasing the population of the U.S.A.? Like immigration events? Are there any such events? How would one look into the game files to see?

I only ask because for a while I have been concerned over the lack of the historic growth in the U.S. population being reflected in-game. Of course, being stuck with an artificially small national market severely hampers a country in this game.

I have some numbers to prove a point about why I am concerned; thanks to Vezina for the French numbers, I am able to work out that the U.S.'s national market is only 38% the size of France's national market, despite that the population of the U.S.A. historically was 38.5 million (population at 1870, from wikipedia) to France's 37.6 million (population at 1872, from wikipedia). For obvious reasons, this concerns me.

Also, is there any way to tell in-game what a country's urban vs. rural population is? Other than scrolling over each province? I only ask because at this point in time the U.S.A. should have the number one total urban population in the world, and the highest overall percentage of population living in cities. For example, if you want to test this, scroll over New York City in the game, and then compare the numbers to only mid-size cities in Europe. But in reality, New York City should have 1.5 million people living in it, and be one of the largest cities in the world by now. I think this is also a big deal, because it is a signal on the type of population a nation has, one would think city-dwellers would have higher paying jobs and higher demands than farm-dwellers.

I doubt anything will come of this, I just wanted to raise awareness and see if this is actually WAD, and if not, try to work out a fix. I think it is likely that this was simply overlooked. Now that we have a dev playing with us, I was wondering if some light could be shed on this topic.

As for population demand techs, I don't know where I am in relation to other nations. I do know this much; the U.S.A. only invests in economy techs, then naval techs only sometimes, and almost never army techs, and the U.S.A. is tied for first in techs, so the economy techs can't be that far behind. Certainly not far enough to explain the domestic consumption being only 38% of France's.

Also, in case anyone is curious, I have a lot of neat charts and tables concerning the Victorian period to WWII, covering all of the great powers, and shows things like population, urbanization, income, GDP/capita, militarization, size of armies/navies, relative industrial capacity, etc. If nothing else, there are very interesting to read and digest, and put in perspective with the major events of the time, like the two unifications, the ACW, Crimean War, WW1, etc. They are especially interesting when you look at them and then try to extrapolate what they are in relation to our alternate universe. I don't mind loading them to photobucket and posting them here if people want to view them.

Also, any response/help/suggestions anyone can offer concerning this would be appreciated

[Sir Garnet]

How does ingame pop compare with France? Half or less?

Did you tally your population points totals? Breakdown into peasants/workers/others? What is your internal market size? What are the ratios and are they consistent with comparable nations?

[coolbean]

That's what I'm trying to find out.

As far as I can tell, and add up using rough math, the U.S. has about 40% the population of France, which makes sense, because with Vezina's help I calculated that the U.S. domestic market is 38% of France's. Like I said above though, right now in history, the U.S. population should be one million more than France, but more or less comparable for our game mechanics. Vezina said I could reveal his national market size, which is 1641. The U.S.'s is 631. I don't know the breakdowns of population in terms of peasants, middle-class, etc. Because the F6 screen only lists demands by type, not total population. I could go to each province and physically add them up if I had to I guess. But it would be time consuming to say the least.

Anyway, like I said, this difference is very disparaging. My mind kind of melted when I decided to compare provinces with New York City. That's why I was kind of wondering what other nation's national market sizes are. Because theoretically, with the historical evidence I can gather, the U.S. should have one of the largest national markets, but clearly doesn't, it should be comparable to France's at the very least, except with a much higher urban population, from all of the evidence for 1870 I've gathered, if anything.

[nemethand]

Vezina said I could reveal his national market size, which is 1641. The U.S.'s is 631.

What number does that exactly refer to? Number of goods sold a given fortnight?

Also, in case anyone is curious, I have a lot of neat charts and tables concerning the Victorian period to WWII, covering all of the great powers, and shows things like population, urbanization, income, GDP/capita, militarization, size of armies/navies, relative industrial capacity, etc. If nothing else, there are very interesting to read and digest, and put in perspective with the major events of the time, like the two unifications, the ACW, Crimean War, WW1, etc. They are especially interesting when you look at them and then try to extrapolate what they are in relation to our alternate universe. I don't mind loading them to photobucket and posting them here if people want to view them.

Please, do so. I am educating myself on Russian foreign relations in the second half of the 19th century, some econimic and other additional data is likely to be useful reading, too.

*****

Anyone running the turn?

[nemethand]

Also, in case anyone is curious, I have a lot of neat charts and tables concerning the Victorian period to WWII, covering all of the great powers, and shows things like population, urbanization, income, GDP/capita, militarization, size of armies/navies, relative industrial capacity, etc. If nothing else, there are very interesting to read and digest, and put in perspective with the major events of the time, like the two unifications, the ACW, Crimean War, WW1, etc. They are especially interesting when you look at them and then try to extrapolate what they are in relation to our alternate universe. I don't mind loading them to photobucket and posting them here if people want to view them.

Please, do so. I am educating myself on Russian foreign relations in the second half of the 19th century, some econimic and other additional data is likely to be useful reading, too.