[PON] Conflict in Europe - Unit Upkeep Issues

[Jonathan Pollard]

I've already mentioned that China has suffered unusually high attrition casualties due to insufficient upkeep. I did not mention how high because I did not want Kensai to be able to take advantage of China's sudden weakness. But after giving it some thought and consulting with Sir Garnet I think this should be made known. Basically half of my army was wiped out. Japan's strength in relation to mine went from 136 to 270. And this happened because I used all except 6 of my conscript pool to build new units which did not leave me with the 56 I needed for full upkeep. I did not think I needed to worry because I received over 1000 conscripts per turn, and I assumed that I would get the new conscripts before paying maintenance, but I was wrong. Currently there are over 1200 conscripts in my pool. Money and manufactured goods were not a problem in the maintenance equation.

My national morale went from 75 to 67, but maybe part or all of that is from the loss of Tianjin.

I considered continuing the game as is, but maybe the game would be better for all of us if something for done to lessen or eliminate what happened from what arguably is a flaw in the game design. I do feel cheated by the game to have half my army wiped out because I overbuilt by 50 conscripts, obviously I would not have done so had I known. And maybe Kensai as Japan would have a better game if China were not a walkover as it probably is now.

So I'd like to have others weigh in on their opinion as to what should be done. One possibility is to have my replacements increased to counterbalance the disappearance of my elements. Currently there are over 4000 infantry requested, plus huge amounts of cavalry, artillery and even ships. I'm open to other suggestions, including attributing this event to a mass mutiny in the army and continuing without scripting any changes. Another possibility is to redo the turn with the only change being made is my building 1 less unit so that I would have the 56 conscripts I need. But I don't like the idea of slowing the game down for everyone else.

What are your thoughts?

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[lukasberger]

I had the same problem as Austria a few turns ago. It shocked me too and took 6-7 turns of building replacements to get fixed.

I agree that this isn't right. It makes no sense that if units don't get 40-50 conscripts that it causes so much damage that it takes 5000 conscripts to fix. That just seems silly to me.

I'm in favor of scripting you replacements. I do think we should fix this, or at least help you out a bit, but don't think that replaying the turn is a great idea.

[Jonathan Pollard]

If we go the replacement editing route, here are the replacement screens. I hope there won't be any issues if I am given more replacements than the max allowed.

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[lukasberger]

If we go the replacement editing route, here are the replacement screens. I hope there won't be any issues if I am given more replacements than the max allowed.

I wouldn't think you'd need more than the max allowed. 379 chits would fill even more than your 4353 hits.

[Citizen X]

Why not simply mediate an armistice plus stop of troop movement between the two untill the matter has solved itself naturally?


Also watch your privater capital. having less than is needed for your current buying orders and maintaining will raise inflation.

[Kensai]

This is a known issue, you have to always end the turn with some positive balance on all resources needed for maintenance. What you did in the game would have been the equivalent of what happened in real life with the Ottoman army in 1920 as it was being replaced by the Turkish National army. Kemal left the old (not loyal) troops of the Sultan to disintegrate as he recruited his new divisions and brigades for the defense of his homeland. Jonathan, you rushed to create new formations of Chinese defenders without taking care of the old ones, adequately.

I know it sucks, because you obviously did not do it on purpose, but as a technicality it was no secret for PON players. I believe it can only be corrected by Pocus at code-level. As for a truce (not armistice) as Citizen X suggests, it could be done by me out of fair play, but wouldn't that be unfair for Japan in its own way? I opted for a winter campaign with lots of extra casualties and logistics problems because I wanted to surprise Empress Cixi, not give her time to get the defenses up. One thing is for sure, if you focus on replacement chits for the next turns and nothing else, your armies will be refitted in less than a couple of months (4 turns).

(I have already given orders for tonight, but will hold off tomorrow and be on the defensive until you get your breath back, but honestly my plan was based on the surprise factor, it would turn the tables to wait for too long...)

[Jonathan Pollard]

I'm willing to continue the game without any changes due to the imminent arrival of massive amounts of international aid which hopefully should counterbalance what happened due to incompetent blundering by the Defense Logistics Agency.

[Jim-NC]

Normally, we don't re-run turns.

I think we call this a mass mutiny, and keep going. Unfortunately the massive losses due to a lack of upkeep is a code issue, and beyond our abilities to fix.