[PON] Conflict in Europe - General Thread

[bjfagan]

Any thoughts on the excessive charges for ironclad battleships?

Haven't seen any comments to indicate whether others have this problem or it's an Austria only issue.

Are the excessive charges at the point of sale (construction) or is it continuing costs afterwards that make it excessive? The costs appeared fair when hovering the cursor over the ship icon.

[nemethand]

I know it but now this factories are useless no one use this factories, I think this factories must have a role.

Ojo,

The price of MfG is lower (5) then standard (6), hence thos factories currently are not profitable. Should the price increase, they would be profitable.

In addition, if you cannot buy, let's say, MfG on the market but have a lot of woods, you can still use a furniture shop to transform woods into Mfg.

[Jim-NC]

Are the excessive charges at the point of sale (construction) or is it continuing costs afterwards that make it excessive? The costs appeared fair when hovering the cursor over the ship icon.

The 1st turn looks correct, then after it starts (on the 2nd turn) it shows the excessive charges. He should have already paid the full price, but now it appears that he is being charged extra.

[lukasberger]

The 1st turn looks correct, then after it starts (on the 2nd turn) it shows the excessive charges. He should have already paid the full price, but now it appears that he is being charged extra.

Right. That's it exactly.

[Kensai]

What about the 3rd (or later) turn? Perhaps costs are simply deferred to the second.

Ojo, the importance of the minor manufactured goods facilities is against worldwide shortages of certain raw resources. As Greece, I would have never been able to build (and get some income) in any way other than building a cannery in Athens to make "canned fruit" and "canned fish" for the world to enjoy!

Also, it seems to me that once your reach the tech for factory (superseding a manufactory) the initial costs are prohibitive for the main man. goods facility. Their purpose is important.

[lukasberger]

Its not a matter of costs being deferred. The initial cost as listed on the tooltip is deducted the first turn, as normal. 100 steel etc. per squadron.

Then next turn, an additional 300 steel, etc. is deducted on top of the correct initial cost already deducted. I believe the same occurs on the third turn too, though I'm not sure whether it was two turns or three turns before I deleted the squadrons the first time. Think it was three though.

It's happened two different times now, so it's not just a random thing.

Even worse the last time it happened one of the squadrons refused to delete, so I had to disband it, which lost me VP, morale and the cost that I'd put into it, including the inflated charge from the second turn. I thought that disbanding would at least give me the costs back but it didn't.

So as is I can't build battleships, unless I want to pay 3-4 times what each squadron is worth in steel and a significant, though lesser, increase in the other costs.

Plus I'm down 400 steel and a bunch of other costs, which just vanished into thin air with the disbanded squadron.

[Sir Garnet]

Brazil has some canneries and furniture makers to bring employment to farm and forest areas.

[Kensai]

Report this to Pocus directly. Honestly, I had no idea there was something like that, I haven't tried to build big ships after we installed the updated executable.

In game terms, let's say you had an explosion in the shipyards and all construction was lost... mwahahah!

[bjfagan]

Sir Garnet advised me that he will not be running the Ottoman Empire anymore. I want to handle their turns until someone is willing to takeover. We cannot let the OE turn to AI at this moment.

[Vezina]

I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with that. I did not take over Austria when Howdy left, and you shouldn't take over OE. Find one of the neutrals that would be willing to run it or leave it AI.

[unclejoe]

I'll take over the Otto's..... if that be okay.

[bjfagan]

I'll take over the Otto's..... if that be okay.

Sounds great. Thank you.


In regards to shipbuilding I tested Lukas' problem too. Building the light cruisers is fine, but when I build the Ironclad Battleship squadron the first turn uses 160 steel, which is correct. Then the second turn is 300 steel, followed by 400 and then 600. I stopped running it after that fourth turn. It is possible the costs will keep going up until the squadron is finished, not sure though. I wonder if there is some kind of loop in the code.

[Kensai]

Early October 1874

There is definitely something wrong going on. Those of you that have working experience of the problem, please write to Pocus with examples.

OT: sorry for the late crunch, it is totally Spinoza's fault ( ) it is too engaging to play strategy titles with this guy... HOI3 was this time (him GBR, me USA... a blast... I wish more of us were on the same time zone so we could arrange more of these MPs)

[Savoyard]

So I took the MME today and there was an uncanny number of questions on the industrialization and westernization of Japan during PON's timeframe. Good thing I play PON and read Kensai's news! I'm confident I slaughtered the Social Studies section.

[Kensai]

OMG, I probably ruined you because I believe (I hope!) I am more advanced than the real-life equivalent of Japan.

One thing I have noticed lately is that I cannot keep up with internal consumption asked by my growing population. Is this the reason why nations tried to expand back in the day?! It makes sense...

[Boernes]

If there ever is a right moment for saying 'told you so', this is it

[video=youtube;GHBB3WWhxr4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBB3WWhxr4[/video]

[coolbean]

If there ever is a right moment for saying 'told you so', this is it

[video=youtube;GHBB3WWhxr4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBB3WWhxr4[/video]

I am still waiting for the "explosion" of USA immigrants!!!

[unclejoe]

Early October 1874

There is definitely something wrong going on. Those of you that have working experience of the problem, please write to Pocus with examples.

OT: sorry for the late crunch, it is totally Spinoza's fault ( ) it is too engaging to play strategy titles with this guy... HOI3 was this time (him GBR, me USA... a blast... I wish more of us were on the same time zone so we could arrange more of these MPs)

Hi Kensai......I would love to play sometime.....maybe put me on a let-X-know list and if I can make it, I will.... I think I have HOI3 (Gamers Gate or Steam).....my email is in dropbox.
aloha,
joe t.

[Lindi]

I need to know the true situation, the Ottoman said I am neutral in the war againist Prussia and Egypt, but the Ottoman are in Suez (3 or 4 turn) so is a small desornored or not?

[Jim-NC]

Britain was unable to purchase anything from North or South America this past turn. Did anyone else notice that problem as well? It's now Early October 1874. I was able to sell some stuff to them however.

[Sir Garnet]

The Americas are last in the transaction sequence, meaning that is where shortage of PC becomes most evident. Requests for Brazilian products often exceed actual sales even when there is supply available. The main reason is probably shortage of PC. Another may be excess requests exceeding supply being dropped even thought those first in line don't buy all they request.

That is a question for the devs I suppose.

[Sir Garnet]

Observers in South America interpreted Austria going to war as a second, more coordinated attempt to displace German dominance - more coordinated in going to war at the same time as France (roughly) rather than Austria and then France each fighting alone and being defeated piecemeal. Given that time is not on Austria's side relative to the German Empire, going to war was a natural extension of a long struggle for dominance in Germany, but obviously undercut by Russian support for Germany.

An Austrian decision to accept Prussian hegemony in Germany could in treaty negotiations manifest itself as providing some support to Germany - what was done is passive in nature.



There are competing arguments in a standoff with a neutral. Realistically, there is either a standoff, one side backs down, or they go to war.

So, in a neutral standoff in a region "confrontation" I think there should be a mini-crisis roll - perhaps determined by the penultimate digit of some number published daily and generated by a semi-random process (such as financial market averages). This is a second draft built on prior discussion.

Raw score is from 0 to 9. A "defender" equal or better in strength in the Confrontation region gets a +1 while an Invader more than 50% stronger in the Confrontation region(s) gets a -1 modifier.

-1 Neutral defender retires all blocking forces from anywhere in or adjacent to Confrontation regions and avoids Confrontation for 6 months.
0 Neutral defender retires blocking forces from Confrontation locations and avoids Confrontation for 2 monhts.
1 Neutral defender retires blocking forces from Confrontation locations this coming turn only.
2 Incident occurs - war breaks out with Invader the aggressor (1 Diplomat charge event) and DAs triggered
3 Tensions critical - side which does not withdraw from Confrontation this coming turn declares war, triggering DAs
4 Confrontation continues
5 Confrontation continues
6 Confrontation continues
7 Incident occurs - Defender either switches to option -1 and backs down accordingly or Defender automatically DOWs Invader.
8 Confrontation continues
9 Invader retires from Confrontation locations.
10 Invader retires from Confrontation locations and may not Confront in any region where Defender is static for 2 months

[bjfagan]

Moving the discussion from the Diplomacy thread...

Bjfagan, rest assured there is nothing underhanded about the USA owning the coal mines in Lille. The province was taken from Belgium when they invaded, and the US got control of the structures when they pushed the Belgians out. As you know, there were no scripts or anything giving control of the structures to the USA. In the past, it has been policy to wait until wars are over before returning structures. I think you even ran into this problem this go around when Russia got control of German structures that Austria had previously controlled, but Kensai said something to the affect of it's been policy in the past to wait until the end of hostilities before a final return-of-everything script.

So, it was as I thought, the USA gained control of the structures after taking them back from Belgium. I don't believe there is any kind of policy/rule stating structures cannot be returned to the rightful owner until after a war is concluded. The game engine should return all structures captured by an ally back to the original owner. The game currently returns all provinces and some of the structures captured by an ally, but not the economic structures. So, I believe there is a problem with the game engine. Those structures in Lille, both mines and factories, should have been returned to France. I guess Vezina did not need the production, but I sure would have wanted them back. Of course, considering the current circumstances, I probably would not want them back.

[Ojodeaguila]

How I can decree a demobilization?

[Kensai]

It will happen automatically six months (12 turns) after you've been in peace.

bjfagan, no rule, but let's keep that limited as a script is always a script. Btw, costs for diplomats should apply.

[Kensai]

Hi Kensai......I would love to play sometime.....maybe put me on a let-X-know list and if I can make it, I will.... I think I have HOI3 (Gamers Gate or Steam).....my email is in dropbox.
aloha,
joe t.

Joe, sure, why not.
What would you like to play? We are only on early 1938, perhaps you can join with a nation. Contact Spinoza for the details. It would be hard to coordinate due to the different time zones but perhaps you can join us on weekends.

[Ojodeaguila]

Joe, sure, why not.
What would you like to play? We are only on early 1938, perhaps you can join with a nation. Contact Spinoza for the details. It would be hard to coordinate due to the different time zones but perhaps you can join us on weekends.

I want to play HOI3 too What versión do you use?

[Kensai]

The latest and greatest (v4.02). If we are many, perhaps we should start a new one once we are done with the previous one (which only has Spinoza and myself atm).

[nemethand]

Additionally, American observers couldn't help but notice a string of Austrian "peacekeepers" in front of the main axis of the French advance.

OOC - Was that seriously an effort to exploit an already known bug for a second time by placing Austrian units in every German city on the border with French held territory?

Something similar to what US troops are doing in China?

[ATTACH]21887[/ATTACH]

[Kensai]

If there ever is a right moment for saying 'told you so', this is it

Hah, nice. However the question remains: minors were not accounted for and their production is added to the grid. Perhaps the need to limit the structure pools (to half) is still there. Nonetheless, I have to give it to the developers, the design is pretty neat: Japan's voracious appetite for resources makes sense in the historical era leading to the obvious results, colonialism and expansionism.