William T. Sherman

[sage]

233 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman4 $Hated_Occupant NULL NULL NULL 3 5 3 3 General 1 NULL 6 5 4

I might consider giving him the "HQ_COMMAND" trait that provides a small bonus to all divisions under his command. His orders were notoriously clear and well organized.

[Chris0827]

We already have a Sherman thread and I believe HQ_Command is an ability only division HQs get although I could be wrong.

[Chris0827]

My memory is going. We don't already have a Sherman thread. Sorry.

[runyan99]

By the way there are 4 levels of Sherman

233 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman4 $Hated_Occupant NULL NULL NULL 3 5 3 3 General 1 NULL 6 5 4

243 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman3 $Charismatic $Hated_Occupant $Forager NULL 3 5 3 14 General 1 NULL 6 5 4

272 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman2 $Charismatic $Hated_Occupant $Forager NULL 3 3 2 17 General 1 NULL 6 5 4

297 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman $Charismatic $Hated_Occupant $Forager NULL 2 2 1 8 General 1 NULL 6 5 4

Sherman was an excellent Division and Corps commander. I am really impressed with his defensive performance at Shiloh, where he held his and Grant's other divisions together on the first day.

He sure wasn't Charismatic though. You can probably remove that trait and replace it with something else.

[sage]

I'd agree that charismatic might not apply.

Perhaps good administrator instead?

[Chris0827]

I don't get hated occupant. He didn't really occupy Georgia and South Carolina he pillaged them. I agree that charismatic should go. He was well liked but far from charismatic. I would replace hated Occupant and charismatic with Plunderer_pop and forager at army level. He didn't start doing that sort of thing until late 1863. He was very much against it early in the war. I'd also give him Strategist and GoodSub_Cmd. He put together a good team of generals and handled multiple armies well against a good oponent. I'd lower his attack rating to 3. many of his direct assaults were failures. His successes mostly came from outmaneuvering the confederates. In the Altanta campaign his direct assaults failed but he outmaneuvered Johnston and then Hood and withstood Hood's attacks while cutting the cities supply lines and forcing Hood to retreat.

[marecone]

I don't get hated occupant. He didn't really occupy Georgia and South Carolina he pillaged them. I agree that charismatic should go. He was well liked but far from charismatic. I would replace hated Occupant and charismatic with Plunderer_pop and forager at army level. He didn't start doing that sort of thing until late 1863. He was very much against it early in the war. I'd also give him Strategist and GoodSub_Cmd. He put together a good team of generals and handled multiple armies well against a good oponent. I'd lower his attack rating to 3. many of his direct assaults were failures. His successes mostly came from outmaneuvering the confederates. In the Altanta campaign his direct assaults failed but he outmaneuvered Johnston and then Hood and withstood Hood's attacks while cutting the cities supply lines and forcing Hood to retreat.

Very good suggestion. I second that one

[frank7350]

i agree.

we should lower shermans att rating, but if we go to a 3, we really have to look at the "completed" generals... not that thats a bad thing once you look at marecones chart

[Korrigan]

Hated_Occupant This leader will apply with extreme severity Martial Law in any rebellious city he has to pacify.

Occupier This leader will not hesitate to proclam Martial Law in any rebellious city he has to administer.

Plunderer_Pop If the most senior commander in the region, this leader will burn and plunder the countryside without regards for justice. Only the most loyal and policed regions will be spared by his uncivilized behavior.


Pocus, can you explain to us more precisely how work the Hated_occupant, Occupier, and Plunderer_pop in order for us to see what would be the best.

IMHO Sherman has lead a deliberate Terror campaign to break the morale of the South, this does not mean he would have pillaged allied regions...

[Pocus]

Hated_Occupant was made with Butler in mind (New Orleans). Occupier is less harsh than Hated Occupant, and can be used for any leader which is strict but not without fairness (like reestablishing order after food riots).

Plunderer pop is for leaders like Quantrill or some Indians leader, not for Sherman. Sherman case is tricky, has the march to the sea is a special case I would say. Better give him only forager, so that he can reenact his long march, but don't necessarly add something like plunderer_pop which imply massacring civilians.

[Chris0827]

Does anything in the game cover what Sherman and Sheridan did? If I capture a city as the union player and the confederates retake it will they get the same industrial output as they had before I captured it?

[Pocus]

I will expand what can be done with the Forager ability, lets say there will be Forager and Forager_ScorchEarth which will be used for Sherman and will let him destroy for good the industrial output of disloyal cities.

[Korrigan]

For these kind of abilities (plunderer, scortch earth, etc.) Perhaps we could also imagine to add something like an anti Good_Admin_Pop, that is lowering the population political support in the region.

[Pocus]

Plunderer do lower the political support, Scorch earth should too, yes.

[Korrigan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_T._Sherman

If anyone deserves Strat 6, it's him.
I'm not convinced he deserves 5-4 in Att/Deff: 4-3 or 3-2 will be more accurate (we can imagine some kind of improvement overtime).

The new ability Scorch Earth will be perfect for him at Army level.

I think he also deserves Poor_Spy_Network at Division level (Newspaper were calling him crazy due to exagerated rebel army figures).

I'm not sure he was that much Charismatic. Gifted_cmd might be better.

I would also give him Master_Logistician at Army_level

Fast_move at Corps and Army level might appropriate.

Thoughts?

[frank7350]

just trying to consolidate the above thoughts for ease...included all suggester traits in some places, have to eliminate some:

233 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman4 $ Strategist $Occupier $Gifted_cmd $GoodSub_Cmd $Master_Logistician NULL NULL NULL 3 5 3 3 General 1 NULL 6 4 3

243 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman3 $Fast_mover $Occupier $GoodSub_Cmd $Master_Logistician $Forager $ Scorch Earth NULL 3 5 3 14 General 1 NULL 6 4 3

272 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman2 $Gifted_cmd $Fast_Mover $Occupier $Forager NULL 3 3 2 17 General 1 NULL 6 4 3

297 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman $Occupier $Gifted_cmd $Forager $ Poor_Spy_Network NULL 2 2 1 8 General 1 NULL 6 3 3

[Korrigan]

233 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman4 $GoodSub_Cmd $Master_Logistician $Scorch_Earth NULL 3 5 3 3 General 1 NULL 6 4 3

243 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman3 $Fast_mover $GoodSub_Cmd $Master_Logistician $Scorch_Earth 3 5 3 14 General 1 NULL 6 4 3

272 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman2 $Gifted_cmd $Fast_Mover NULL NULL 3 3 2 17 General 1 NULL 5 3 3

297 USA William T. Sherman ldr_USA_Sherman $Gifted_cmd $Poor_Spy_Network NULL NULL 2 2 1 8 General 1 NULL 4 3 2

[frank7350]

i like how you increased various traits as sherman moves up the chain.... should make things interesting!