I think, and I stress as a beginner, I think, that I'm beginning to get a grasp on the game but the whole issue of Movement and its relationship to Cohesion and Attrition is causing me some grief. Grief I can live with if I have to but its grief non the less that I would avoid if I could.
Now as my simple mind understands it....If I move I will suffer Cohesion loss. In addition I will suffer Attrition loss. Cohesion loss will be based upon how far I move, by what method...eg land or rail and what the weather conditions are like in any area I enter. Attrition losses will be based on weather conditions and movement mode but also on the amount of Cohesion loss.
Now if I'm right how do experienced players handle not knowing until after movement has been completed what the likely losses to cohesion and attrition are.....or do you just adopt either a suck it an see mentality or go for overwhelming odds?
Currently I'm with the suck it and see brigade...damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.
You just come to anticipate what your troops state will be on arrival.
I am a little surprised to see so many post about this issue lately, as I have never found myself halted by the effects.
As I posted in another thread: use passive stance. Both in movement, as well as while recovering from it. Plan your moves more than one turn in advance. And don't get stuck on one particular line of thinking with regards to objectives, etc.
I haven't played the Federals much, but it seems that they have more issues with it.
Use feints and diversions to give your larger stacks time to recover from a large fight, and use rr destruction to funnel your foes efforts to where you are ready to face him/her.
I am a little surprised to see so many post about this issue lately, as I have never found myself halted by the effects.
As I posted in another thread: use passive stance. Both in movement, as well as while recovering from it. Plan your moves more than one turn in advance. And don't get stuck on one particular line of thinking with regards to objectives, etc.
I haven't played the Federals much, but it seems that they have more issues with it.
Use feints and diversions to give your larger stacks time to recover from a large fight, and use rr destruction to funnel your foes efforts to where you are ready to face him/her.
My name is Aaron.
Knight of New Hampshire
Knight of New Hampshire
I suppose Solowolf that part of my problem, being a Brit and a real lover of the Napoleonic era at heart is that I cant abide the idea of playing the CSA and then merely defending. If Wellington had done that in Spain we'd have never have made any headway.
By the same token I'm only playing PBEM that means even in 61 my aggressive Union opponent attempts to outflank me in the area of Richmond forcing me, sofar as I cant work out any strategies to combat, to move to defend by assaulting him. Now often that means moving at the most inopportune times and to move 'passively' under such a senario is not effective if you get my drift
By the same token I'm only playing PBEM that means even in 61 my aggressive Union opponent attempts to outflank me in the area of Richmond forcing me, sofar as I cant work out any strategies to combat, to move to defend by assaulting him. Now often that means moving at the most inopportune times and to move 'passively' under such a senario is not effective if you get my drift
Advice here ofc depence on what type attrition rules u use aka historic or normal.
For a beginner i would advice normal so ill use that.
First off u only lose cohesion when moving in/into a province u dont have military controll off.
So the only thing that could then cause u attrition in own territory is being outside a building in harsh weather = snow. So this is either u do or u dont situasion.
Is there any reasons to move or not. That will decide whether its worth teh risk + size of moving force. The larger ofc more casulties.
1 trick is move by rail and end in a building/structure, aka use the move into structure option. Since the check is made either before or after move, i ferget u can "island hop" from city to city via rail if ending in a strucktur u can avoid the winter attrition in own lands. The larger the struckture the bigger chance of avoiding hits.
As to move into province where u dont have military controll u will take a cohesion loss and since for movement: Hits are proportional to the cohesion cost of the move.)
Bad weather will do 2 things. Cohesion loss goes, up = more attrition, than non bad weather.
Apart from that u just like in own territory if not inside a build u get attrition weather based hits. Since movement takes longer u will be "outside" longer which in turn gives u more weather based hits.
In general that means i will suspend operations in the winter months atleased in area's of lesser concern. For example trying to take the North Arkansas hills in bad whether just going to make u die. Where an advance a single province in VA might be worth the risk. Its all very situasional. Just remember moving in bad weather and chances are that u cant make it into buildings "fast" u going to take lot of attrition hits so avoid it.
Ok that out of the way. This is my ways of dealing with cohesion.
Since in the eastern theather advances generally around much more than 1 max 2 provinces until u make contact there its more or less as u say damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. Assuming and this is importand that u are starting at full cohesion. If not i'd stop at leased one province before i hit teh enemy to stay there, regain cohesion and then advance again. Ofc u face teh risk of being counter attack, and not get the time to regain cohesion.
Still overall if u start with fresh troops and i generally try and make it that way. Moving 1, 2 provinces is fine, no problem. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.
In the west its some what different. More hills and the forces are in less direct contact. This mean i use in anticipating of combat or even moving up to a city to besiege it, the tactic of moving up too 1 province away from objective. Stay there and regain cohesion before attacking. Again depence on what ur starting cohesion and territory u pass through is. If u making a broad advance in no particular hurry. U can always use the advance 1 province at a time. Lets say u use 8 days on the move. Means remaining 7 days u rest and regain cohesion and u gain control of territory. Many times u can actually keep ur cohesion at max doing that(not counting through out the turn, but from turn to turn). At the same time u gain military control, which means u secure ur supply line. This is in it self essential if in a general advance.
As solowolf points out. Knowing which stances to use, when and when to be inside buildings to regain cohesion is importand to understand too. Luckily the tool tips on what u regain in which situasion is a much better teacher than words on a forum is. In my experience.
Hope it helps else ask away,
Rasmus
For a beginner i would advice normal so ill use that.
First off u only lose cohesion when moving in/into a province u dont have military controll off.
So the only thing that could then cause u attrition in own territory is being outside a building in harsh weather = snow. So this is either u do or u dont situasion.
Is there any reasons to move or not. That will decide whether its worth teh risk + size of moving force. The larger ofc more casulties.
1 trick is move by rail and end in a building/structure, aka use the move into structure option. Since the check is made either before or after move, i ferget u can "island hop" from city to city via rail if ending in a strucktur u can avoid the winter attrition in own lands. The larger the struckture the bigger chance of avoiding hits.
As to move into province where u dont have military controll u will take a cohesion loss and since for movement: Hits are proportional to the cohesion cost of the move.)
Bad weather will do 2 things. Cohesion loss goes, up = more attrition, than non bad weather.
Apart from that u just like in own territory if not inside a build u get attrition weather based hits. Since movement takes longer u will be "outside" longer which in turn gives u more weather based hits.
In general that means i will suspend operations in the winter months atleased in area's of lesser concern. For example trying to take the North Arkansas hills in bad whether just going to make u die. Where an advance a single province in VA might be worth the risk. Its all very situasional. Just remember moving in bad weather and chances are that u cant make it into buildings "fast" u going to take lot of attrition hits so avoid it.
Ok that out of the way. This is my ways of dealing with cohesion.
Since in the eastern theather advances generally around much more than 1 max 2 provinces until u make contact there its more or less as u say damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. Assuming and this is importand that u are starting at full cohesion. If not i'd stop at leased one province before i hit teh enemy to stay there, regain cohesion and then advance again. Ofc u face teh risk of being counter attack, and not get the time to regain cohesion.
Still overall if u start with fresh troops and i generally try and make it that way. Moving 1, 2 provinces is fine, no problem. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.
In the west its some what different. More hills and the forces are in less direct contact. This mean i use in anticipating of combat or even moving up to a city to besiege it, the tactic of moving up too 1 province away from objective. Stay there and regain cohesion before attacking. Again depence on what ur starting cohesion and territory u pass through is. If u making a broad advance in no particular hurry. U can always use the advance 1 province at a time. Lets say u use 8 days on the move. Means remaining 7 days u rest and regain cohesion and u gain control of territory. Many times u can actually keep ur cohesion at max doing that(not counting through out the turn, but from turn to turn). At the same time u gain military control, which means u secure ur supply line. This is in it self essential if in a general advance.
As solowolf points out. Knowing which stances to use, when and when to be inside buildings to regain cohesion is importand to understand too. Luckily the tool tips on what u regain in which situasion is a much better teacher than words on a forum is. In my experience.
Hope it helps else ask away,
Rasmus
Thanks Walloc,
Its not the West, the west I can handle, its the East from 61 against an aggressive human player who knows the weight of his advantages. I've quickly discovered with the Jackson's corp so isolated its easy to put weight on PTB's position with overwhelming strength early on and to bypass him on the push to Richmond so that the CSA just has to attack...and in force. Was just hoping, given other posts and the thread on attrition that moving in 'mud' overland was not as distructive as some are posting.
The only way I'm managing at present is to focus entirely on the east which means the Army of Tennesse goes and hangs until late 62 at best. Not that I'm really complaining its fun to try and combat
Its not the West, the west I can handle, its the East from 61 against an aggressive human player who knows the weight of his advantages. I've quickly discovered with the Jackson's corp so isolated its easy to put weight on PTB's position with overwhelming strength early on and to bypass him on the push to Richmond so that the CSA just has to attack...and in force. Was just hoping, given other posts and the thread on attrition that moving in 'mud' overland was not as distructive as some are posting.
The only way I'm managing at present is to focus entirely on the east which means the Army of Tennesse goes and hangs until late 62 at best. Not that I'm really complaining its fun to try and combat
Frankly if i was playing CSA pbem and US player did that. I might let him through. Then cut of his supply line back to Washington, move capital from Richmond. US player has 2 choices either attack back or move to the coastline or establish a supply line via the coast or else he will find him self out of supply very fast. If he choses to to go to teh coast ok but be better not lose a battle he cant retreat from. If he tries to fan out and establish a supplyline out to the coast, he splits his forces. Divide and conquere.
Considering the problems with US activation early on i'd say he might very well find him self in trouble.
Not to forget i'd be willing to trade Richmond for DC any day as CSA.
Sounds good on paper, right?
Kind regards,
Rasmus
Considering the problems with US activation early on i'd say he might very well find him self in trouble.
Not to forget i'd be willing to trade Richmond for DC any day as CSA.
Sounds good on paper, right?
Kind regards,
Rasmus
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Jabberwock
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That's highly imaginative; even riskier than most of my ideas . . . excellent!
Richmond is still a major source of CSA war supplies.
A slightly less risky ploy - you could use it in conjunction with Walloc's ideas . . . I'd try to build up some divisions under Lee in the Richmond defenses. Wait, and hope McD does attack him (freeing him, by the way). Then crash the party with Bory, Stonewall, & JJ.
anvil & hammer
Richmond is still a major source of CSA war supplies.
A slightly less risky ploy - you could use it in conjunction with Walloc's ideas . . . I'd try to build up some divisions under Lee in the Richmond defenses. Wait, and hope McD does attack him (freeing him, by the way). Then crash the party with Bory, Stonewall, & JJ.
anvil & hammer[color="DimGray"] You deserve to be spanked[/color]
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