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Hobbes
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Supply Questions

Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:20 pm

Supply around Richmond is becoming critical in the PBEM game I am playing with Gene. I need to understand it thoroughly. Are all the following true?

1. Only depots and towns of 3+ will push supply outward (up to a max of 5 regions per supply phase). Will forts also push supply out? (I assume not)

2. Towns of level 2 and below will not push supply to any other region, they can't even provide supply for units in adjacent regions?

3. Supply wagons will recieve supply but not push it on although if I put a wagon in a level 1 or 2 town it will then supply units in adjacent regions using the supply it gets from the level 1 or 2 town?

Thanks for any supply related thoughts!
Cheers, Chris

Mack the Knife
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Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:42 pm

i'm just playing the demo but i thought any town with a depot would forward supplies.

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Duc_d_Heilsberg
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:18 am

Hobbes wrote:1. Only depots and towns of 3+ will push supply outward (up to a max of 5 regions per supply phase). Will forts also push supply out? (I assume not)

2. Towns of level 2 and below will not push supply to any other region, they can't even provide supply for units in adjacent regions?

3. Supply wagons will recieve supply but not push it on although if I put a wagon in a level 1 or 2 town it will then supply units in adjacent regions using the supply it gets from the level 1 or 2 town?



1. All towns, harbours and depots (all these structures are supply sources that create supply) will push supply.
Wagons will receive supply but don't push it to any other source, just to units.

2. See 1.

3. See 1. It's more efficient to put empty wagons near a great supply source to fill them and then take them back in the region or an adjacent one where are the units that need supply.


I strongly advice you to read the AACWwiki or to search in the forum for other players' experience. (I'm not an experienced AACW player yet)
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Hobbes
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:19 am

Mack the Knife wrote:i'm just playing the demo but i thought any town with a depot would forward supplies.



Yes if it has a depot it will forward supplies - if it has a depot you don't have to worry about the town size.

Cheers, Chris

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Hobbes
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:26 am

Duc_d_Heilsberg wrote:1. All towns, harbours and depots (all these structures are supply sources that create supply) will push supply.
Wagons will receive supply but don't push it to any other source, just to units.

2. See 1.

3. See 1. It's more efficient to put empty wagons near a great supply source to fill them and then take them back in the region or an adjacent one where are the units that need supply.


I strongly advice you to read the AACWwiki or to search in the forum for other players' experience. (I'm not an experienced AACW player yet)


Hi Duc, there is a difference with town size on their ability to push supply forward (at least in AACW).

I'm mainly wondering if wagons can take supply from level 1 or 2 towns and then supply adjacent regions. I assume they can.

Supply I think is not very well understood so I thought this post might be a good chance for people to get a better understanding or post a few tips (I am in need of them at the moment as my armies starve)

Cheers, Chris

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Pocus
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:21 am

Level 1-2 towns & harbors 1-4 don't send supplies, they only produce a few and can receive some.
Wagons don't send supplies 5 regions away.

Level 3+ towns, depots and Wagons can receive supply up to 5 regions away. Wagons = special 'magnet' unit.

Every structure or wagons can give supply adjacent to them.

There are 2 phases in supply: how it is distributed to structures (and wagons) and how 'mundane' units use it.

So you can discriminate like this:

supply repartition phase:

Town lvl 1-2, fort, wagon, harbors 1-4: don't send, can receive
Town 3+, harbors 5+: can send
units: ignored

supply consumption phase
any unit can ask for supplies from any structure or wagon, adjacent or in same region.
any unit can ask for supplies from another unit, if within the same stack.
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Hobbes
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:33 am

Thanks Pocus!

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GShock
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:07 pm

This is definitely material for the wiki. Great clean explanation, thx !
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jhdeerslayer
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:28 pm

Still love learning these little details!

supergamelin
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:25 pm

If I understand correctly this means that a unit on a railway or a navigable river won't get supply if it has no wagons and it's not adjacent to a structure............

This would explain why I have some troops starving in the middle of pennsylvania................. :bonk:

dammit, union troops can't survive on railroad iron.........

ird
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:19 pm

Thanks Pocus - now I understand why my attacks keep ending with me scurrying back cos I'm out of supply

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GShock
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:38 pm

Yet another of the "game in the game" surprises AgeOD prepared with fair advance for us. :)

Keep own army supplied and try to cut off enemy supply lines. :dada:
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willgamer
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:50 pm

Whoa! Not so fast...

How do railroads and rivers come into play in supply distribution?

I guessed from the manual, on p.47, that Rail, River & Sea Transport extended the distribution range; or is 5 the max range with rail/river?

Also, just from playing, it seemed to me that unimproved, wilderness areas attenuated the 5 region range.

Is it correct to say that during supply repartition, supply may be forwarded
1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 regions away, depending on several factors including unmolested river/rail?

:tournepas

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Hobbes
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Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:02 pm

willgamer wrote:Whoa! Not so fast...

How do railroads and rivers come into play in supply distribution?

I guessed from the manual, on p.47, that Rail, River & Sea Transport extended the distribution range; or is 5 the max range with rail/river?

Also, just from playing, it seemed to me that unimproved, wilderness areas attenuated the 5 region range.

Is it correct to say that during supply repartition, supply may be forwarded
1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 regions away, depending on several factors including unmolested river/rail?

:tournepas


Yes supply will be forwarded more quickly through good terrain and along railroads and rivers (depending on your rail/rivers transport levels). 5 regions per phase is the maximum (3 phases per turn).

I'm not really sure what real advantage this brings the player as if the supply is moving slowly it will still get to you eventually in the same amounts?

I think weather impacts the speed of transportation as well.

Cheers, Chris

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Rafiki
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:57 pm

I've started collecting information about supply in http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply

Additions and corrections will be most welcome :)
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Hobbes
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:28 pm

Suppose I have a depot with a railroad link to a town 5 regions away to the east and there is also another town located through poor terrain with no railroad link 5 regions to the west.

If it takes (for sake of example) 1 day to get supplies to the eastern town and 5 days to the western town and a ‘packet’ of supplies is sent in both directions every day from the depot after 5 days both towns will be receiving a packet of supplies per day. The only advantage the railroad gives is to supply the eastern town for the first 4 days also.

Is this correct? I don’t think there is any loss to supplies during transportation?

Cheers, Chris

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Pocus
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:29 pm

there are 3 phases per supply distribution, as you know. The max distance that can be travelled is tied to the travel cost between the 2 points, in movement days for a wagon, and is never farther than 5 regions. So it is entirely possible to be prevented from moving from region A to B, if a mountain is in the middle, or if it is mud and you don't have railroad.
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Hobbes
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:35 pm

So if due to weather conditions and terrain supply does not reach a destination town by the end of the 3 phases it will be lost?

Cheers, Chris

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Rafiki
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:49 pm

I'm guessing it won't be sent at all?
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Rafiki
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:33 pm

How does rail, river and ocean transport factor into supply distribution?
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GShock
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:56 pm

Good question i was about to ask myself.

Pocus stated the supplies move like wagons do...i assume they will use the maximum possible speed according to the remaining train/river/ship movement capability remaining in the "pool" after the player hits the end turn button?

This speed would then be affected by weather and terrain the same as a cart would travel but limited to max 5 regions...correct?
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Rafiki
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:03 pm

GShock wrote:Pocus stated the supplies move like wagons do...i assume they will use the maximum possible speed according to the remaining train/river/ship movement capability remaining in the "pool" after the player hits the end turn button?

Indeed. I doubt it's coincidental that the "levels" for remaining transport capacity are 1/3, 2/3 and 3/3 when there are 3 distribution phases. My theory is the number of phases where such transport is available.
GShock wrote:This speed would then be affected by weather and terrain the same as a cart would travel but limited to max 5 regions...correct?

That's my first thought as well, but it doesn't explain ocean-transported supply, since that clearly has a lot longer range.
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Guru80
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Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:29 pm

The inner workings are quite complex and complete indeed! All good questions and I am sure the answers will be forthcoming..

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Hobbes
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:15 am

Also if a packet of supplies arrives in a level 3 town in supply phase 2 and that town already has close to the amount of supply it needs will the extra (if such a thing is possible) be pushed further in phase 3? If it is and it does not reach a town is it then lost or can supply exists in transit in regions without depot's and structures between turns? If so that rather goes back to my first question. I'm getting confused again!

Cheers, Chris

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Pocus
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:03 pm

Supply are never lost. Either they can transit or they stay in place.

The 1/3 - 2/3 - 3/3 you see is the number of segments (out of 3) in the distribution phase where your supply have the advantage of moving by rail, river or both. This allow them to be much better repartited. Seek to have at the very least one segment with rail transportation, or some of your destination depots can never see one single pt of supply.

Supply by sea is completely different, done in another phase. Basically, you have a 10x your transport capacity in the Merchant box allowance. Ports with a lot of supply will then displace some of them to ports or coastal depots (even w/o ports) of the atlantic facade. (yes it is an english word too ;) )
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Rafiki
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:04 pm

Thanks to the information provided by Pocus (Image), the section about supply distribution at the wiki is starting to look pretty good, IMHO:

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply#Supply_distribution

All my questions about this have been answered; anyone have any other things that should be added?
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Hobbes
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:08 pm

Many thanks Pocus, I'm getting there!

Is there a maximum amount of supply that can exist in a depot or structure?

If so if this maximum exists at the start of a supply phase no supply will be 'sucked' from other depots or structures?

If I have level 3 town a, level 3 town b and level 3 town c (all 5 regions away) and level 3 town a has zero supply while level 3 town b is at max supply 5 regions to the east and level 3 town c has max supply 5 regions to the east of b - what will happen?

EDIT: (I'm assuming that all adjacent regions will get supply then the low supply towns/depots and wagons will try and suck supply from any level 3 town or depot that has excess? - within 5 regions? Depending on weather and transport?)

What is the difference betweem max supply and required supply.
I assume the code first looks at supplying everyone in the same and adjacent regions and then tries to push extra on (well suck is probably a more accurate description to push I think?)

I'm not expecting a detailed answer for this vague question, I'm more hoping to show from the thread as a whole the sort of confusion most players have about supply.

I would like to think this thread could carry on for a week or two with people getting the occasional bit of enlightment from Philippe when he gets time and at the end of it we will all be Master Quartermasters!

There are still a few other supply related things I'm not sure about but will post next week.
Cheers, Chris

grenna
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:55 pm

A very informative thread, my dear Hobbes! But please keep that food-scarfing bandit Jackson out of my depots. At the very least have the decency to refrain from complaining about the poor selection when you take my depots! :sourcil:

Cheers,
Gene

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Hobbes
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Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:34 pm

Hey get off the forum and make your turn - I'm sitting here waiting for it!
I need a few more of your depots to feed the scraps I find there to my men.

Cheers, Chris

Jagger
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Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:37 am

Does supply move at the same speed and same movement costs/restrictions as a supply wagon train?

Will supply move just as far and fast as a supply wagon train during a 15 day turn dependent on mode of transportation and terrain/ground conditions but no further than 5 regions?

For example, a supply wagon moving by rail or water will easily move 15 regions but if supply, the radius would be limited to 5 regions. However if moving through hills and mud, a supply wagon train may only move perhaps one or two regions due to movement cost within the terrain/ground conditions which is much less than the maximum 5 regions. So in those conditions, could we expect a supply radius of one or two regions as well?

Can we approximately or precisely calculate the supply radius from a source by looking at the movement ability of supply wagon trains within the particular terrain/ground conditions?

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