Railroad system
How it works. Both side have a railroad system. Do you have to buy locomative to use it ? or improve it ? If you want to move a division or corps like Longstreet at Chickamauga, how much time is needed ? For now i just now that you have to select the destination and then use the "by rail button" but what is the limit ?
you have a pool capacity representing the current rolling stock and overall network state. It erodes each turn by some percents, so if you are the Confederates chances are that you will perhaps use your war materials to seemingly more interesting things like making canons, but you always have the option to buy new pool points. The Union can do that routinely, given the amount of war materials he produces each turn.
So each force moved by train spend for one turn a number of pool points equal to his weight. Travel time is one day per region, except when crossing rivers where you get another one day cost, representing the various bottlenecks around stations and need to stop at coaling stations from time to time. This is a very fast mode of redeployement anyway (and you can combine that with riverine move during the same turn!)
So each force moved by train spend for one turn a number of pool points equal to his weight. Travel time is one day per region, except when crossing rivers where you get another one day cost, representing the various bottlenecks around stations and need to stop at coaling stations from time to time. This is a very fast mode of redeployement anyway (and you can combine that with riverine move during the same turn!)
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
Florent wrote:How it works. Both side have a railroad system. Do you have to buy locomative to use it ? or improve it ? If you want to move a division or corps like Longstreet at Chickamauga, how much time is needed ? For now i just now that you have to select the destination and then use the "by rail button" but what is the limit ?
You start out with a certain number of locomotives, or maybe rolling stock is a better term since you're dealing with transportation points. Currently, the south starts out with enough to move about 4 divisions per turn while the north has 3 times as much.
If you select rail movement for a unit, the rail points needed to move that unit (dependent on the unit size) are deducted from your pool for that turn. Using rail movement will cut the travel time down to 1 or 2 days per region. Any rail points that you didn't use to move troops are used to move supplies at the end of the turn.
YOU can increase the size of your pool by buying extra rolling stock and since the pool will degrade over time (not sure if that's in the beta yet) you'll have to spend points on 'repairs' to keep the pool up.
Pocus wrote:you have a pool capacity representing the current rolling stock and overall network state. It erodes each turn by some percents, so if you are the Confederates chances are that you will perhaps use your war materials to seemingly more interesting things like making canons, but you always have the option to buy new pool points. The Union can do that routinely, given the amount of war materials he produces each turn.
So each force moved by train spend for one turn a number of pool points equal to his weight. Travel time is one day per region, except when crossing rivers where you get another one day cost, representing the various bottlenecks around stations and need to stop at coaling stations from time to time. This is a very fast mode of redeployement anyway (and you can combine that with riverine move during the same turn!)
Pocus, how big is a region ? Is that a state or about half a state or ...
Cutting rail lines can be a huge part of the game, especially out in the western areas where you might only have one rail line in the area. In the east it still can pose a problem, but not as much of one since there are enough spurs and other routes that things can go around a break.
And to Florent, I doubt even Napoleon could have done much with the South's interior lines honestly, the lack of industrialization and rail routes (Plus the fact that the lines they did have were often of many different gauges, neccesitating frequent stops and changes), meant that a move like the one that sent Longstreet's corps to Bragg really could not be done often. The south disrupted a lot of necessary traffic to make that move, not to mention the wear and tear caused by the move caused them to tear up quite a few spur lines just to make repairs. I just thank the AGEOD team for simplifying the system, because if they had modeled the actual southern rail system with all it's problems, I doubt I'd ever be able to use it to move troops around.
And to Florent, I doubt even Napoleon could have done much with the South's interior lines honestly, the lack of industrialization and rail routes (Plus the fact that the lines they did have were often of many different gauges, neccesitating frequent stops and changes), meant that a move like the one that sent Longstreet's corps to Bragg really could not be done often. The south disrupted a lot of necessary traffic to make that move, not to mention the wear and tear caused by the move caused them to tear up quite a few spur lines just to make repairs. I just thank the AGEOD team for simplifying the system, because if they had modeled the actual southern rail system with all it's problems, I doubt I'd ever be able to use it to move troops around.
Thanks for your comments Spharv2. I spoke about Napoleon because he often use the central position to observe his ennemies and their mistakes to strike them using interior lines. Some books ( including the Civil war encyclopedia given as a link by Marecone a few days ago) indicate that the confederate discovered too late the advantage of the Chattannooga-Virginia rairoad line enabling moving between East and West. And thus wasted an advantage. Of course it was early in the war. In 1864 with Grant as General and his coordinated offensives in East (himself) and West (Sherman) it was too late. Grant didn't want an intervention from an unoccupied ennemy. As you stated the Confederate railroad line was very special and the time lost important. I think the German had this same problem when invading Russia in 1941.
Looking at Marecone AAR, i could see the economic screen with industrial factory in Georgia and as rereading articles written in Strategy and Tactics 169 and 170( about Atlanta Campaign), i noticed in the " Storm over Georgia" article that "Sherman's focus on that city was the result of sound reasoning, easily supported by a cursory postmortem examination of any battlefield. Virtually every rebel cartridge box, cannon ball, uniform button and canteen had stamped or stenciled on it the infernal words, "MADE IN ATLANTA" " It 's nice to see that Georgia will have the same strategic importance too in the game thanks to its war supplies production. As well as a railway center.
Great work at AGEOD!
Looking at Marecone AAR, i could see the economic screen with industrial factory in Georgia and as rereading articles written in Strategy and Tactics 169 and 170( about Atlanta Campaign), i noticed in the " Storm over Georgia" article that "Sherman's focus on that city was the result of sound reasoning, easily supported by a cursory postmortem examination of any battlefield. Virtually every rebel cartridge box, cannon ball, uniform button and canteen had stamped or stenciled on it the infernal words, "MADE IN ATLANTA" " It 's nice to see that Georgia will have the same strategic importance too in the game thanks to its war supplies production. As well as a railway center.
Great work at AGEOD!
Yeah, Atlanta will be an important hub in the game, they've done a good job of creating the map in such a way to focus things on the real life important strategic points.
Just one further point on the Napoleon thing. Personally, I think the biggest difference between the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW is simply the scale. Most of the European countries are roughly the size of one theater in the ACW. It wasn't until Napoleon invaded Russia that he had to deal with anything similar, and we saw how that went. It's not like it was a continuous front as in World War One, but it still represented a vast amount of territory that would have to be defended in some manner or another.
One of the bigger problems the Confederates had with using their central position was that all of their most important areas were on the front lines. Virginia, the most populus state in the CSA. New Orleans, the biggest city, wasn't on the front lines landwise, but with US naval supremacy, it might as well have been as it turned out. Tennessee and Kentucky were important states that were, for the most part, lost relatively quickly. I've seen so many writers talk about how the CSA should have traded space for time, but unlike a country like Russia, this isn't a viable strategy for the CSA because most of their important states were the ones that would be lost first with such a strategy.
Just one further point on the Napoleon thing. Personally, I think the biggest difference between the Napoleonic Wars and the ACW is simply the scale. Most of the European countries are roughly the size of one theater in the ACW. It wasn't until Napoleon invaded Russia that he had to deal with anything similar, and we saw how that went.
It's not like it was a continuous front as in World War One, but it still represented a vast amount of territory that would have to be defended in some manner or another.One of the bigger problems the Confederates had with using their central position was that all of their most important areas were on the front lines. Virginia, the most populus state in the CSA. New Orleans, the biggest city, wasn't on the front lines landwise, but with US naval supremacy, it might as well have been as it turned out. Tennessee and Kentucky were important states that were, for the most part, lost relatively quickly. I've seen so many writers talk about how the CSA should have traded space for time, but unlike a country like Russia, this isn't a viable strategy for the CSA because most of their important states were the ones that would be lost first with such a strategy.
Yes the scale is simply outstanding !! The railroad concentration are not made as quickly as european conflict of 1859, 1866 and 1870.
About the front lines, i was actually surprised that Marecone improved his economy in Nashville vulnerable on the border but i totally agree with his race to Paducah. Taking it and fortify it will delay the battle for Donelson. I read that too many men were garrisoned in Donelson (15000) or later in Vicksburg. More heavy guns were perhaps better and the men in the main army. With the release of the game in the following weeks, there is no doubt that there will be fascinating discussions about strategy in the forum !!
About the front lines, i was actually surprised that Marecone improved his economy in Nashville vulnerable on the border but i totally agree with his race to Paducah. Taking it and fortify it will delay the battle for Donelson. I read that too many men were garrisoned in Donelson (15000) or later in Vicksburg. More heavy guns were perhaps better and the men in the main army. With the release of the game in the following weeks, there is no doubt that there will be fascinating discussions about strategy in the forum !!
Hi guys.
In defence of my strategy in AAR. Well, I am much more focused on writeing AAR's and posting pics then I am on strategy. English is not my native language so I try hard not too make too much mistakes. Consider my AAR as "what you shouldn't do"
.
As for Fort Donelson. I just started reading Grant's memoairs. I got to page 176 in one day. What a book! If anybody want's a link I'll provide it.
15,000 or so, rebs defending two forts -Henry and Doneldson. Grant starts towards them. He had a help of gunboats. Attacks Henry and get's it in a day with no major problem. Rebel leaders got scared and decided to ove to other fort.
Then he marches to check other one. He knows that Floyd is first in command and his old friend from West Point and Mexico is the second one. First one is not a solider so Grant calculates that his fried will set up a bad defence without skirmishers. Based on that he gives order to his men to march and close in to fort with no fear.
Ofcourse, he was correct .
Rebs id have a chance and almost broke through. Well if they did a better effort they would be saved, but they returned to Doneldson and surrendered after that. About 15,000 men!
What a blow. Anyway it is nice book on tactics as well as Grant is desribeing his every move.
I didn't realize how individuals was important before. I always did read general books on ACW and only general that I know in detail is Forrest. I figured, he had a smaller command so he, as individual could make the difference. Now I understand that Grant on yank side and Floyd and others did make a hughe difference. If there was a Jackson or Lee there, outcome would be different for sure.
P.S. Ofcourse, my favirit general Forrest did want to surrender at Doneldson and decided that he'll fight his way out.
Godspeed
In defence of my strategy in AAR. Well, I am much more focused on writeing AAR's and posting pics then I am on strategy. English is not my native language so I try hard not too make too much mistakes. Consider my AAR as "what you shouldn't do"
.
As for Fort Donelson. I just started reading Grant's memoairs. I got to page 176 in one day. What a book! If anybody want's a link I'll provide it.
15,000 or so, rebs defending two forts -Henry and Doneldson. Grant starts towards them. He had a help of gunboats. Attacks Henry and get's it in a day with no major problem. Rebel leaders got scared and decided to ove to other fort.
Then he marches to check other one. He knows that Floyd is first in command and his old friend from West Point and Mexico is the second one. First one is not a solider so Grant calculates that his fried will set up a bad defence without skirmishers. Based on that he gives order to his men to march and close in to fort with no fear.
Ofcourse, he was correct
.
Rebs id have a chance and almost broke through. Well if they did a better effort they would be saved, but they returned to Doneldson and surrendered after that. About 15,000 men!
What a blow. Anyway it is nice book on tactics as well as Grant is desribeing his every move.
I didn't realize how individuals was important before. I always did read general books on ACW and only general that I know in detail is Forrest. I figured, he had a smaller command so he, as individual could make the difference. Now I understand that Grant on yank side and Floyd and others did make a hughe difference. If there was a Jackson or Lee there, outcome would be different for sure.
P.S. Ofcourse, my favirit general Forrest did want to surrender at Doneldson and decided that he'll fight his way out.
Godspeed
And how disruption or breakdown of the railroad system is handled in a region ,visually speaking ? with an icon ? or just the tooltip ?
( as a side note , Napoléon's grognards did exceptionnaly well in forced march, as example , the day before Austerlitz , 3rd Corps of Marshal Davout covered 160 km in 36 hours! Incredible... ).
( as a side note , Napoléon's grognards did exceptionnaly well in forced march, as example , the day before Austerlitz , 3rd Corps of Marshal Davout covered 160 km in 36 hours! Incredible... ).
La mort est un mur, mourir est une brèche.
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daidojisan
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- Location: The Netherlands
This did not make it sorry. (the map with new railroads is done, so there is always the possibility of adding that into a patch, but the AI must be on par on that too, and this was not the priority...)
No, you won't be able to build where you want, there will be restrictions.
No, you won't be able to build where you want, there will be restrictions.
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
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daidojisan
- Sergeant
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:44 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Ray, railroads can be repaired by using the "repair railroad" button in the Special Orders box to the left of the message panel (same place you choose river/rail movement, but on one of the other tabs). My experience is that you can issue this order to a unit that started its turn in the region needing the repair.
jackfox wrote:Ray, railroads can be repaired by using the "repair railroad" button in the Special Orders box to the left of the message panel (same place you choose river/rail movement, but on one of the other tabs). My experience is that you can issue this order to a unit that started its turn in the region needing the repair.
Correct. Keep in mind that you need at least one regiment of troops (any type) to begin repairs. Generals can't go out and repair rail lines.
Also, engineers helping the repairs will speed the process up.you can also ask for the order and plan a move, the troop will only move after repairing the rail. So one regiment can fix a rail per turn in this manner.
Another interesting note, when you destroy a railroad, if the region is under sufficient control, you gain war supplies! The south canibalized some rail like that historically.
Another interesting note, when you destroy a railroad, if the region is under sufficient control, you gain war supplies! The south canibalized some rail like that historically.
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
jackfox wrote:Ray, railroads can be repaired by using the "repair railroad" button in the Special Orders box to the left of the message panel (same place you choose river/rail movement, but on one of the other tabs). My experience is that you can issue this order to a unit that started its turn in the region needing the repair.
Okay...
I had a heck of time finding that.
Thanks,
Ray (aka LAVA)
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