Exchanging Army Leaders

[Longshanks]

This seems to remain a mystery area to me.

I'm trying to get two generals to exchange the leadership of an army, but the button won't butt. That is, the button in the upper left of the command buttons is lit up, but can't be pressed. The button reads "General Floozy will take over the command of the Army of Hobbiton, thus discharging General Flopsy. This will cost you 4 National Morale points and 1 bazillion Victory Points."

Both generals are active. Even if I put them in their own stack, nuttin'.

The button implies that it only need be pressed to make the switch. The alternative is to discharge General Floozy separately, and then appoint General Flopsy. I am quite aware that will about double the cost (this was the original subject of the 'A Series of Unfortunate General Swaps' thread). Obviously, I'd like to avoid that.

So, please, how does that button work, and if it doesn't why is it there?

[Captain_Orso]

I read this after watching The Late Late Night Show with Craig Ferguson and couldn't stop hearing Craig's voice speaking the words with Geoff Peterson throwing comments in between



So anyway, I noticed this a long time ago, but never bothered to look into it further, until now . The button works half way. If the new general introduced to the army stack is higher ranking than the current army commander, the button will switch the Army HQ unit to the higher ranking general. If it's the other way around, even if you have just switched generals and want to switch them back, it won't work.

Work Around:

1. Put the new, lower ranking general into the army stack
2. Click on the army commander
3. Click on the Dismiss Army Commander button to split the Army HQ unit from the current army commander
4. Now remove the previous army commander from the army stack
5. Click the Create Army button

et voila you have put your new army commander in charge of your army .

On a side note all these steps are transient, that is to say, anything you do in between the turn's starting setup and the orders saved before executing the turn (when you click the bugle directly, your orders will be saved automatically) have no meaning.

This allows you to disband an army and re-create it in the same planning phase so that it's name will be changed to that of the historical army of the grand region. So if you've created the Army of the James and sent it down to New Orleans, if you disband and then recreate the army, it will now be named the Army of the South.

One Caveat, when you do this, all corps attached to the army will be detached and revert to non-corp status regardless of how far way they are. So if they are out of range of the army they lose their corp status and cannot regain it until they are within range of the army. If they are however within range of the army, you just re-attach them to your newly named army and the boni they got from the old army remains unchanged.

[Longshanks]

Thanks, Orso. Of course, the work-around is precisely how I DON'T want to do it, as it is very much more expensive. But thank you for explaining why the button isn't working.

This is just one of those cases where the button label implies more than the button can deliver. As I said in the original post, "the button won't butt."

[Captain_Orso]

Hi Longshanks,

I'm not sure how you are assessing that exchanging army commanders per my method is any more expensive than were the button to work the way it is described, as since it AFAIK has never worked any other way than how it works now, there is nothing with which to compare.

Remember, dismissing a general/disbanding an army is always affected by a loss of MN and VP (amount depending the the political level of the dismissed general), unless the Army HQ immediately goes to another general with a higher seniority, in which case the button will work.

Just because the Exchange Army Commanders tool-tip only hints at the MN/VP loss (which is only the loss due to dismissing the army commander and the same as the Disband Army button tool-tip shows), doesn't mean that (were it to work as described in the manual) the MN/VP loss for giving an army command to a general with a lower seniority, while a general with a higher seniority is passed over (or had it taken away), would not still be paid. I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't.

I believe that other than the complications of having to manually do what the Exchange Army Commanders button should do, there is no difference in outcome.

[Longshanks]

In that case, I put it that the button is very misleading indeed!

[Captain_Orso]

I guess it is . Since I learned to play AACW as the Union many or most of my first changes of command were High-Seniority-Less-Than-Competent-Commanders (HSLTCC) for Lower-Seniority-Better-Than-Less-Than-Competent-Commanders (LSBTLTCC) for Good-Lower-Seniority-Competent-Commanders (GLSCC). So I very seldom have had the opportunity to actually use that dusty button . I learned to do it my way and have always looked at both costs because of it.

In a world full of HSLTCCs and a few LSBTLTCCs, I've always payed the price for the very few GLSCCs

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

That's why I always leave an extra HQ lying around. Send crappy old general with his HQ for latrine duty and just give the new guy his own HQ.

[Captain_Orso]

Ahhh those generals that overestimate themselves so much, I don't want to give them anything other than a broom and a dust pan and directions to the stables

Could it be, I'm standing in my own way like that

[Longshanks]

That's why I always leave an extra HQ lying around. Send crappy old general with his HQ for latrine duty and just give the new guy his own HQ.

Ultimately, that's what I did. However, when I promoted the 2-star to a 3-star I was harshly reminded that promotions do not always a better general make: he went down in several key command areas. So, for now the third star has been taken off, and I still have a spare Army Command.

[Stauffenberg]

Just because the Exchange Army Commanders tool-tip only hints at the MN/VP loss (which is only the loss due to dismissing the army commander and the same as the Disband Army button tool-tip shows), doesn't mean that (were it to work as described in the manual) the MN/VP loss for giving an army command to a general with a lower seniority, while a general with a higher seniority is passed over (or had it taken away), would not still be paid. I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't.

This is exactly the sort of paragraph that should be flagged as unsuitable for ACW newbs to read, on the grounds that it will induce mental paralysis and a loss of morale.

[Captain_Orso]

Ultimately, that's what I did. However, when I promoted the 2-star to a 3-star I was harshly reminded that promotions do not always a better general make: he went down in several key command areas. So, for now the third star has been taken off, and I still have a spare Army Command.

That's why I always have the Generals Lists handy Updated Generals Lists 1.15 Legacy Patch Don't leave home without them

This is exactly the sort of paragraph that should be flagged as unsuitable for ACW newbs to read, on the grounds that it will induce mental paralysis and a loss of morale.

Unfortunately it's a fact of life. Having been a programmer, I have some idea of how these things come about. It took me a large amount of time and effort to recognize such anomalies and I came close to throwing in the towel a couple of times. The best thing you can do is to understand that the Devs attempted to put everything into place they way the players would like to have them, and an enormous achievement has been the outcome. There are some small corners that could use some rounding, but sometimes rounding those corners require an immense amount of effort.

Knowing where these corners are can increase the pleasure of the game greatly; they then become just minor inconveniences. Having people in these forums point such corners out to me is what saved this great game for me. I'll certainly not withhold them for other for just that reason.

[Stauffenberg]

Knowing where these corners are can increase the pleasure of the game greatly; they then become just minor inconveniences. Having people in these forums point such corners out to me is what saved this great game for me. I'll certainly not withhold them for other for just that reason.

Agreed... of course!
Mine was a tongue-in-cheek wag at the rhetorical vehicle... certainly not the worthy content, nor the illustrious writer.
The fine work is much appreciated.

[Captain_Orso]

Yeah, I know, but that sentence of mine is a dozy arty: Comes from many years of reading the Advanced Squad Leader Rulebook aka "The Tome"


Stand back kids, that's only the basic rules. With night and weather, desert, jungle, beach landings, marines, Japanese, Nationalist and Socialist Chinese rules it gets a bit bigger

[Stauffenberg]

I hear you.
A player's head had to have an awful lot of RAM back then, as in memorizing 30+ pages of rules, and being prepared to be a rules-lawyer with your opponent.

[Jim-NC]

Ah, those were the days. Argueing for 30 minutes over whether you could "see" me or not.

[Captain_Orso]

..and how fat or thin the LOS thread had to be

I had the longest discussion with a friend from Prague about what "if any" means

[Stauffenberg]

LOS?
Add range to that calculation, as in playing out Jutland on a 12 x 12 carpet on the floor (preferably blue) every weekend in 8-hour shifts, 4 guys a side clutching the rules, range-finders etc etc. Very exciting... in a slow-mo sorta way.

Does anyone else miss dice?

[Captain_Orso]

LOS = Line-Of-Site. In ASL every hex had a center dot in it. Draw the LOS thread taught between the center dot of the firing hex and the center dot of the target hex; if any obstacle cross the LOS so that they can be seen on both sides of the thread, then LOS is blocked and fire has no affect on the target location/units.

Jutland! Many Sundays spent crawling the carpet I still catch myself saying, "the Möltke" and now I can actually say it correctly and not Moltke .

Miss dice? I've still got all of mine. All different colors and sizes. May favorites are a pair of black ones (I lacquered them myself), one with white dots the other with gold so you can tell which one the CDR (Colored Dir Role) is for Sniper Checks, only used when playing the SS