---> AACW Official Patch 1.09e

[arsan]

The easiest way is not updating the game pass 1.04 patch (or was it 1.05??)

[Evren]

Isn't it technically still possible to play with Div HQs? Not that you can do it without a fair amount of modding and other hassle, though

general.opt:

Code: Select all

RemoveDivHQ = 0

Thanks Rafiki. Your answer brings another question though

I'm not as old as you are (in the forums i mean ), so i've never seen the divisional HQs. Was commander seniority important in creating divisions?

Thanks in advance.

[Le Ricain]

Thanks Rafiki. Your answer brings another question though

I'm not as old as you are (in the forums i mean ), so i've never seen the divisional HQs. Was commander seniority important in creating divisions?

Thanks in advance.

No.

[Rafiki]

As the Ricain says, no.

Also, for the record, I mentioned the technical possibility of still using Div HQs as a curiosity. I *strongly* recommend *against* trying to play a game with a recent patch, using div HQs

[GShock]

I know of this DIV HQ setting but why no Corps HQ ?

And besides, we should all play the same game, im just wondering why this choice was taken.

It's evidently OT, i just hope the 09e is fixed

[Chamberlain]

BTW, fellas... Now, that I'm finally through the gruelling real life work schedule and v1.09e is an "official" patch. I have resumed the RR Accuracy work. Currently working with Florida, but will be moving up into Indiana and Ohio after Florida.

Great news Gray_Lensman !!!



Chamberlain

[arsan]

Hi, just my 2 cents...
While people here talks about reintroducing Div HQ, and even implement Corps HQ (which have never existed on the game)... i think it will be better to eliminate the only kind of HQ that remains on the game (Army HQ) at least for Athena (AI)
Why???
Check the attached picture and see by yourself.
This is standard 1.09e april campaign.
I play the Union, and the AI plays the CSA...

Behold how she uses her meager southern resources and organizes her forces leure:
By building 3 expensive army HQ and then sending them all to Bragg's stack which have the "very important" mission of watching Fort Pickens garrison since half a year ago
Meanwhile, AS Johnston is strolling around Kentucky with half a dozen militias, and the main CSA forces on the west (a bunch of divisions and independent brigades) are scattered around under one star leaders and fighting with 35% penalties commands leure:
The only CSA Army on the map is the Potomac one under Beuregard... the one Athena receives already formed at campaign start

I have asked for it on other thread but i will ask for it again: please do something to help Athena create armies!
Without them, single player game (the one most of the buyers play) is crippled as the AI cannot do anything useful with all her units leure:

I understand AI programming is difficult, but giving the AI already formed armies on the scenario setup or even letting her create armies just with 3*** leaders without need of a HQ will be a great help.

She can create troops, organize divisions... but without Armies she always fight at 35% penalty, cant use the "march to the sound of the guns" etc... leure:
Pocus, pleeeease!
------------
About div and corps HQ issue, even for PBEM play, i can't find any advantage and only increased and boring micromanage on it
Certainly, i don't miss the "old times"

Regards

[Evren]

Arsan, you're quite right, these kind of HQs can ruin Athena, but i was just asking for a PBEM game, where both human sides can handle without any problems (in case both sides prefer the micromanagement, yes, some of us prefer more micromanagement ), and bringing lots of lethal choices to the game. But it's not meant to be vanilla, just for a mod.

Regards,

[Franciscus]

Hi, just my 2 cents...
While people here talks about reintroducing Div HQ, and even implement Corps HQ (which have never existed on the game)... i think it will be better to eliminate the only kind of HQ that remains on the game (Army HQ) at least for Athena (AI)
Why???
Check the attached picture and see by yourself.
This is standard 1.09e april campaign.
I play the Union, and the AI plays the CSA...

Behold how she uses her meager southern resources and organizes her forces leure:
By building 3 expensive army HQ and then sending them all to Bragg's stack which have the "very important" mission of watching Fort Pickens garrison since half a year ago
Meanwhile, AS Johnston is strolling around Kentucky with half a dozen militias, and the main CSA forces on the west (a bunch of divisions and independent brigades) are scattered around under one star leaders and fighting with 35% penalties commands leure:
The only CSA Army on the map is the Potomac one under Beuregard... the one Athena receives already formed at campaign start

I have asked for it on other thread but i will ask for it again: please do something to help Athena create armies!
Without them, single player game (the one most of the buyers play) is crippled as the AI cannot do anything useful with all her units leure:

I understand AI programming is difficult, but giving the AI already formed armies on the scenario setup or even letting her create armies just with 3*** leaders without need of a HQ will be a great help.

She can create troops, organize divisions... but without Armies she always fight at 35% penalty, cant use the "march to the sound of the guns" etc... leure:
Pocus, pleeeease!
------------
About div and corps HQ issue, even for PBEM play, i can't find any advantage and only increased and boring micromanage on it
Certainly, i don't miss the "old times"

Regards

I couldn't agree more with you arsan, and your observations are exactly mine, from the CSA point of view.
The sad truth is that Athena does not know what to do with army HQs. She does not seem able to create new armies. This is major issue, certainly way above the discussions about attrition, mud and etc.
I also agree that a good way to solve this would be to get rid with HQ altogether, at least for the AI, or else the AI should have her armies formed by event.

[Le Ricain]

Le Ricain, Jojo and Lasse, is the bug repeatable? ie, you revert to the previous turn and redo an end turn, does the problem appears again?

Sorry, I did not save that turn and so cannot answer your question. I forgot about it until I saw Lasse's post. I could try to back the turn up and see if I can find it.

Pocus,

I did find the turn and then reverted back to the previous turn. Hitting the next turn button gave me again the start of the previous turn. The bug is repeatable.

[GShock]

I wasn't asking to produce Corps HQ i was just wondering (since i arrived after the Div HQ had just been removed) why that choice was taken.

Ewww that SS on Bragg's HQ stack is terrible. Might be the answer to my question.

I can hardly really imagine how the AI can ever be good at employing units in such a terribly complex game. This about the unit employment is a big point...the lack of real amphibious assaults is another. Of course the AI can't put units in transports and assault New Orleans...that's considerably more complex indeed

I'm sure Pocus will find a way, he always does

[Jojo le Gouffy]

Autant que j'ai pu le constater, le bug signalé se répète si l'on retourne au tour précédent.
En revanche, il n'apparait pas forcément si l'on revient en arrière de deux tours.
Ceci étant je n'ai fait l'opération qu'une fois (les deux tours) considérant que c'était la chose à faire si le bug signalé réapparaissait.
(excusez-moi pour le français mais ce que je dis est trop compliqué pour mon niveau d'anglais)

[Franciscus]

...I can hardly really imagine how the AI can ever be good at employing units in such a terribly complex game. This about the unit employment is a big point...the lack of real amphibious assaults is another. Of course the AI can't put units in transports and assault New Orleans...that's considerably more complex indeed

I'm sure Pocus will find a way, he always does

I must stress again this problem of armies and AI, as I feel that it is really a major point, possibly game-breaking. I would also like to further expand some thoughts:
1. To me Athena is not a bad AI, far from it. In my ongoing campaign as CSA, the USA AI has managed to made some very interesting moves: A Texas invasion, with 2 forces that after they got cut away from supplies captured Matagorda, and only after some fierce battles were dislodged; A run past Island 10 with a full division that then proceeded to lay siege to Little Rock ; reinforced Sumpter before I was able to capture it leading to a months long siege ; a siege of Donelson and some menacing moves toward Paducah with Grant's command; a cavalry raid through the Carolinas; and to my immense chagrin a sound thrashing of Jackson's corps while it's divisions were being reorganized; so, not bad at all
2. The problem is that with the exception of the eastern theatre all those clever moves were made with independent commands all with 35% penalties leure:

I may be wrong, but to me the AI should be able to at least follow the rules of the game; she is able to form divisions, with more or less satisfying results; but she does not form armies or corps. Divisions are "just" really a group of elements; corps also, but they depend upon the existence of an army; armies, on the other hand, are different. A 3 star general and an army HQ combined are already an "army", that serves as center, coordinator, etc of corps and divisions. And the AI seems to be unable to follow the games rules to form armies and corps. And this, in my opinion is the main factor that cripples an otherwise very good AI.

This should be solved. Either it is possible to code the AI to understand the games rules or else it would be necessary to "script" the AI (forming armies by event) for her to be able to have armies.

Pocus ?

[Pocus]

Le Ricain, can you send me the saved game?

About Armies HQ. Aaaargh!!! Something must be really broken, but I did my homework and it worked in my tests. I'm almost pi*** of seeing what this Athena thing manages to not do with them

I would really like to have this save too Arsan. I have a save of Franciscus on that too, but two is better. The AI will get some attention in april anyway, this was planned.

[arsan]

Hi
Thanks, Pocus!
I will send you the save this evening when i arrive home.
I completely agree with Franciscus.
Athena is reasonably good in many aspects but this Army HQ problem is a very important handicap for her.
It will be great if you could fix/improve the AI behavior so she learned (or remembered) how to make armies/corps.
But if it’s too difficult/impossible some setup changes or events could help her a lot, I think.
Even in addition to the AI fix.
There are some examples where the leader could arrive already attached to a HQ without creating any controversy, IMHO. AS Johnston is probably the most clear example.
With him, the CSA ai at least would have one army on the east and another on the west to organize his forces around.
Bragg, Buell/Rosencrans… could be another candidates for this at least when played by the AI.
Regards!

[Franciscus]

I wasn't asking to produce Corps HQ i was just wondering (since i arrived after the Div HQ had just been removed) why that choice was taken.

In direct answer to GShock, the main (sole ?) reason for removing div HQ was precisely because Athena had severe difficulties forming divisions back then. This was much improved by this good decision of the devs, as now the AI is able to use her resources to form divisions.
The problem now is the armies. Maybe this problem was allways there ? It is not impossible. I just recently have begun to really play the grand campaign seriously . Most players probably do not pay much attention to the way AI's forces are organised. And some of the best and brightest minds around here (Hobbes, Gray, runyan, Clovis, Jagger, Jabber, etc ) are either PBEM players or, I suspect, have not played much, being involved in laying RR tracks or modding the effects of mud on the unionist shoes (my southern boys unfortunately rarely have that luxury)

I'm sure Pocus will find a way, he always does

I couldn't say better

[GShock]

I see the reason finally. Perhaps the solution could be to autospawn the HQs once the costs for DIV/Corps/Army are paid.

Include the cost of the HQ in the paying process and that means if you create an army, the HQ joins automatically the *** and next turn you autopay HQ and form army costs (currently not present if im not mistaken).

At this point, neither the player nor athena need to buy HQs or to relocate them merge/unmerge with the *** and that's about it as a solution.

This also allows to reinstate DIV HQ and put in the Corps HQ that i think are needed. At the same time, when a corps or an army or div are destroyed, so is the HQ and the player and AI have to pay the costs again to rebuild it (no more Corps commander with active Corps but no troops).

BTW looks like Johnston got killed in TN but his army wasn't so are we sure the wounding of a general doesn't comport the destruction of his army? That's a serious check to be done.

[Clovis]

Hi
Thanks, Pocus!
I will send you the save this evening when i arrive home.
I completely agree with Franciscus.
Athena is reasonably good in many aspects but this Army HQ problem is a very important handicap for her.
It will be great if you could fix/improve the AI behavior so she learned (or remembered) how to make armies/corps.
But if it’s too difficult/impossible some setup changes or events could help her a lot, I think.
Even in addition to the AI fix.
There are some examples where the leader could arrive already attached to a HQ without creating any controversy, IMHO. AS Johnston is probably the most clear example.
With him, the CSA ai at least would have one army on the east and another on the west to organize his forces around.
Bragg, Buell/Rosencrans… could be another candidates for this at least when played by the AI.
Regards!

Just for info, I'm posting here what I've done for Halleck. The first event will fire only for USA AI and will give to Halleck an army HQ when he appears on the map. The second event will fire only for USA human player and is the same as in vanilla, ie Halleck coming alone.

I've done the same for Buell ( army of the Ohio) and AS Johnston and Pemberton for the CSA. Unfortunately, this can only work for leaders appearing as 3 stars.

SelectFaction = $USA
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_HalleckAI|1|1|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/11/01
MaxDate = 1862/01/01
CheckAILevel = 1
EvalUnqUnit = Henry W. Halleck;NOT
SelectRegion = $Saint Louis, MO
PickFromRegList = NotEnemy;NotAdj
GenMsg
SelectRegInArea = $MO;Squared;OwnedCities;CondSkip
GenMsg
PickFromRegList = NotEnemy
GenMsg
EvalRegionSel = NULL

Actions
GenMsg

SelectFaction = $USA
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Land
Entranch = 0
InCS = 0
FixType = 0
SetName = Western Command
Apply
CreateUnit
GMEParam = Western Command
SetType = $uni_USA_Hq2
FlavorName = Brig.Gen. Henry W. Halleck
SUFlavorName = Western Command HQ|Tennessee Art.
SetName = Western Command
Apply
CreateUnit
SetCommit = 1
SetType = $uni_USA_Halleck3
SetName = Henry W. Halleck
Apply

EndEvent


SelectFaction = $USA
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_Halleck|1|1|NULL|NULL|NULL|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1861/08/19
MaxDate = 1862/01/01
EvalEvent = evt_nam_USA_HalleckAI;<;1
EvalUnqUnit = Henry W. Halleck;NOT
SelectRegion = $Saint Louis, MO
PickFromRegList = NotEnemy;NotAdj
GenMsg
SelectRegInArea = $MO;Squared;OwnedCities;CondSkip
GenMsg
PickFromRegList = NotEnemy
GenMsg
EvalRegionSel = NULL

Actions
GenMsg

SelectFaction = $USA
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Land
Entranch = 0
InCS = 0
FixType = 0
SetName = H. Halleck
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_USA_Halleck3
SetName = Henry W. Halleck
Apply

EndEvent

[Jabberwock]

Just for info, I'm posting here what I've done for Halleck. The first event will fire only for USA AI and will give to Halleck an army HQ when he appears on the map. The second event will fire only for USA human player and is the same as in vanilla, ie Halleck coming alone.

I've done the same for Buell ( army of the Ohio) and AS Johnston and Pemberton for the CSA. Unfortunately, this can only work for leaders appearing as 3 stars.

Very nice.

[arsan]

Looks very interesting, Clovis!
It seems its time to check your mod!
It's compatible with the last patch??
Thanks and regards!

[Le Ricain]

Le Ricain, can you send me the saved game?

About Armies HQ. Aaaargh!!! Something must be really broken, but I did my homework and it worked in my tests. I'm almost pi*** of seeing what this Athena thing manages to not do with them

I would really like to have this save too Arsan. I have a save of Franciscus on that too, but two is better. The AI will get some attention in april anyway, this was planned.

Pocus, the saved game has been sent.

[Clovis]

Looks very interesting, Clovis!
It seems its time to check your mod!
It's compatible with the last patch??
Thanks and regards!

The current version has only this event for AS Johnston. The next version will have for other generals I've mentioned. The current mod is certainly compatible with the current patch...However, as I don't play anymore with it, I can't be fully assured of this.

[arsan]

Thanks Clovis!
I had seen in your mod's thread that the next version is very near.
So maybe i will wait for it.
Regards!

[tagwyn]

Hey!! I may be a "dim-bulb" around here but ... for heaven's sake NO MORE HQs!! What a waste!! apy:

[Franciscus]

Just for info, I'm posting here what I've done for Halleck. The first event will fire only for USA AI and will give to Halleck an army HQ when he appears on the map. The second event will fire only for USA human player and is the same as in vanilla, ie Halleck coming alone.

I've done the same for Buell ( army of the Ohio) and AS Johnston and Pemberton for the CSA. Unfortunately, this can only work for leaders appearing as 3 stars. (...)

[/I]

Looks just like what the doctor ordered !!

[GShock]

The way it looks to me is simplicity is the key. If Athena cant handle HQ, suppress HQ all the way down to DIV as already done before. After all a general is never alone and its supposed to have with him the staff, attendants, messengers and so on which is basically what the HQ is. Corps and DIVs dont need HQ already, so ... i'd remove HQ from Armies and let the stars judge whether one can be corps or army commander. Id focus on those glitches such as Sibley being promoted 2 stars and elegible for Corps command without any notification of any kind or any action taken by the player at all.

Time saved from a basically unessential HQ AI bug could be devoted to work out a solution for the Union AI naval invasions, totally missing, imho.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Rafiki]

Indeed. Removing army HQs is a major game change, and it should not be done casually. Rather, after more analysis of what the AI really does with the HQs (compared to what it should do), as well as seeing how tweaks using the existing game mechanics in better ways, like Clovis' "3-star with a side order of HQ" work out, should it be considered, if necessary.

BTW, Clovis, I have to say that I am impressed by your ability to continuously explore the possibilities offered by the game engine to improve the game. Kudos!

[Pocus]

hi there,

Thanks Le Ricain for the save, I'll look into it within a few days.

About HQs. The code has been removed for divisional HQ, so it would not work even for a mod.
Army HQs maintained: This is also why we introduced the possibility to redeploy leaders or lone HQs, so to solve the problem for the AI. It seems a bug or two remains, but they will be cleaned, I'm pretty sure of that.

Compared to doing a proper amphibious AI (still planned), the amount of work removing div HQ (which were cumbersome in many ways) or maintaining Army HQs (and doing code for them) was very small. Amphibious AI demands planning and strategic preparation for the follow-up of the bridgehead. It is not enough to dump a big stack somewhere and pray it can live on its own

[Franciscus]

(...)
As a reminder:
Gamers must realize that ACW is now over a year old and that there are at least 3 newer games and 1 older game produced or being produced that utilize this same game engine. AGEod has stated that they will continue to support ACW and fix bugs, but they will not make major game engine changes unless it is of benefit to the entire game engine for ACW and the newer games based on this same game engine. AGEod is a rather small software company and currently I believe there are only three programmer/developers to do all this work and they do not do this as a hobby but as a business.

I couldn't agree more. Nevertheless, I feel that the fact that the AI can not handle a basic but fundamental organizational rule, that spans not only AACW but the other games of AGEOD should be without a doubt a top priority to solve by the devs, to benefit not only AACW but specially the newer games.
I am pretty sure Pocus feels this way also.
About Army HQ in AACW. Clovis workaround seems to be able to solve partially the problem, although for practical purposes the AI would be limited to the scripted armies. GShock ideas should not be dismissed right away. Even maintaining the army HQ unit, I fail to see how a way of automatizing their creation (ie, by clicking the "create army" button a new army HQ unit, would appear next turn attached to the respective general, with the respective cost payed) should not be an option to consider, if not for AACW, then for the newer games of AGEOD.