now, wait a minute, here

[Rafiki]

Mmmm, I'd say the 1.07 new blockade system (ie, by elements, modified by forts) as at least as major a change as the div HQs. I am eager to see how well it works!

I don't consider it to be as large, both because it is so clearly an improvement of an existing feature, without changing the principle of it, and also because it seems a lot less controversial

My number 2 biggest AACW change since release would be the change in artillery strengths/costs, if we're compiling a list

[gap10]

Gentlemen,

As you can see by my # of posts, I'm a lurker here. I just had to put fingers on the keyboard for once to make several points:

If this game was not absolutely fabulous right out of the box, this thread (and undoubtedly many others on this forum) would have garnered maybe 2-3 responses. Nobody would care. It is strong testament to the game that it generates such passionate concern.

To pasternakski:

I generally don't care what side of an argument someone is on or whether or not their opinion jives with mine as long as it is succinctly and cleverly stated I will read on and award mental 'style points'. My hat is off to you, sir! As someone mentioned above, this discussion has been informative and interestng to read. Winston Churchill, a man of privilage, once remarked to his secretary about the lives of his constituents as they found themselves lost in a poor section of an English city (forgot which); 'Never to have seen anything beautiful..never to have tasted anything savory..never to have said anything clever.' Which leads to--

I haunt several forums regarding games and this forum has the most respectful, measured, educated, and social posters of any of them. The posts rarely denigrate to name calling, 'I know more about this than you do, so shut the *$^# up', or just plain off topic BS (does that translate to French? Not sure). All of you moderators and frequent posters should give yourselves a warm pat on the back.

I add my heartfelt thanks to AGEOD for their continued commitment to this great game. It has been years since I have been this fascinated by a computer game; I bounce back and forth between computer and board games but generally consider myself more of a boardgamer. I have several new board wargames that are languishing on the shelf for lack of time as I play this.

Lastly, yes, if we are making a list of best improvements, mark me down for the weather fix! Boy, was that one bothering me. leure:

Regards,

Gerry

[tagwyn]

Pocus: I will not be uipgrading anything not officially integrated into a patch by you and the team. I am also offended just like Patternaki. You whippersnappers could not carry my briefcase. L3

[pasternakski]

I am also offended just like Patternaki.

Down boy! Stop biting the postman's ankle!

I am not offended (and my online moniker is not 'Patternaki'), but look where we are. In other threads, posters are voicing confusion about whether the graphics package is necessary with v. 1.07b, about what was actually changed in 1.07a and whether those changes perpetuated into 1.07b, and about other subjects I don't even recognize because I had no idea they even existed - even though the posters seem persuaded that everyone understands exactly what is being discussed.

I think this - Pocus or some other of the AGEod pantheon needs to say, "STOP," then give us a patch that includes everything official up to this point so that we can all get to the same COMFORTABLE point with the game.

Then, the "official" path and the "modding" path need to go down their separate paths with a clear distinction maintained between the two.

I will add only this. Anyone who says that customers are not confused enough to be skeptical of buying further games from AGEod is kidding himself.

Should we take a poll to see who is playing which version and ask them to list which mods they have added? Then, should we take the results and show them to the casual buyers of the game (and, I suggest, this describes the vast majority of customers) and ask if they can make heads or tails of that information?

I am guessing that there are more buyers of AACW out there who have no idea that the game has been modified to eliminate division HQs than do.

[Korrigan]

As the moderator, may I add that I'ld appreciate if some modders could stop posting about their work in the General forum (I move their posts anyway... ).

IMHO, this only adds to confusion.

The AACW Headquarter should be only about the "Official game", there is a dedicated forum for Mods discussion and work. This way it should be clearer for people who don't want to get mixed up with mods, they just have to stick to the content offered in the Headquarter.

Best regards,

Korrigan

[Rafiki]

I am not offended (and my online moniker is not 'Patternaki'), but look where we are. In other threads, posters are voicing confusion about whether the graphics package is necessary with v. 1.07b, about what was actually changed in 1.07a and whether those changes perpetuated into 1.07b, and about other subjects I don't even recognize because I had no idea they even existed - even though the posters seem persuaded that everyone understands exactly what is being discussed.

To me, this calls for clearer/better information when patches are released.

I think this - Pocus or some other of the AGEod pantheon needs to say, "STOP," then give us a patch that includes everything official up to this point so that we can all get to the same COMFORTABLE point with the game.

Any patch published by Pocus is, by definition, official. Anything included in it is official, and anything official is included in them (unless it was in the game when released).

The 1.07 releases have had a few kinks, but once they get sorted out, I think we'll have a patch that makes AACW better than it has ever been before, and something that can be played for quite some time (at least till something better, i.e. the next patch, comes out )

Then, the "official" path and the "modding" path need to go down their separate paths with a clear distinction maintained between the two.

I don't think I could disagree more As shown with 1.07, mods can explore various aspects allowed by the game engine and provide a testing ground for what could be. If testing shows that the changes made in a mod improve the game, I see no reason why the people sticking to the official patches shouldn't benefit from it.

And here's the bottom line in my reasoning; I trust Pocus' judgement as to what will ultimately improve the game he has made and knows better than anyone else. By exporting variables to allow modding, and by letting game data be in files that are accessible and modifiable by the general public, he shows that he is interested in looking down the roads previously not taken.

I will add only this. Anyone who says that customers are not confused enough to be skeptical of buying further games from AGEod is kidding himself.

Fair enough. However, I'll also say that anyone who says that customers don't appreciate a developer who is dedicated to fixing problems in games they release and that Pocus and the rest of AGEod's post-release work on AACW won't help future sales is also kidding themselves.

[McNaughton]

I think it comes down to who has the time/energy to devote to certain testing and changes.

Everyone knows that a company has limited time for a game, and does their best to release it as 'accurate' as possible (in all regards).

However, if I, as a modder, discover that they left out some historic units in the July 1861 scenario, or placed a commander in the wrong county, do not I have the right to mod it, then if AGEOD likes it, to take this information and apply it to the game?

Tagwyn believes that you have to be on AGEOD's payroll to be allowed to do anything to AACW, official or not.

Pasternaski, I cannot really pinpoint your opinion. I believed it was that you were upset about the constant changes, but, splitting 'official' and 'modded' really has been done. Unless you are suggesting splitting AGEOD's patching into an 'Official Only Comes from Pocus' patch, and an 'Official Patch with ides from people outside of AGEOD's payroll'.

[Jagger]

As the moderator, may I add that I'ld appreciate if some modders could stop posting about their work in the General forum (I move their posts anyway... ).

IMHO, this only adds to confusion.

The AACW Headquarter should be only about the "Official game", there is a dedicated forum for Mods discussion and work. This way it should be clearer for people who don't want to get mixed up with mods, they just have to stick to the content offered in the Headquarter.

Best regards,

Korrigan

If a mod is clearly labeled a mod, I am not sure how people can be confused. A mod is clearly an option for those that desire a change or something a bit different. Some people may be offended by mods but then they don't have to use a mod or read a thread about a mod. They have a choice. Just don't read the thread and don't download the mod. Easy!!

So if we eliminate threads on mods, those upset by mods will no longer be upset by spotting a mod thread.... leure: ....but those who want to hear of new mods will no longer have that new information. It seems a bigger minus than a plus.

The mod forum has substantially less traffic than the general forum. It is primarily for those discussing how to mod the game. Many are not interested in the nuts and bolts of creating a mod and rarely visit unless they hear of a new mod.

It is your choice but if news of newly completed mods are not posted on the general forum, many people interested in mods will not be aware of their options. Which is a loss.

For example, I just updated the Brigade Name Mod to work with 1.07. How many are going to know it is now available as I have not posted a notice in the general forum?

My two cents worth.

[Rafiki]

How about having a mod announcement thread in the general forum, as a kind of showroom to the general public? It could e.g. be used to announce mod releases and mod startups, and could include links to the relevant threads in the mod forum?

(Dunno how it would work out; I read all threads here anyway )

[epaminondas]

I think this - Pocus or some other of the AGEod pantheon needs to say, "STOP," then give us a patch that includes everything official up to this point so that we can all get to the same COMFORTABLE point with the game.

Then, the "official" path and the "modding" path need to go down their separate paths with a clear distinction maintained between the two.

I think we have both of these in Pocus' post #47. Don't we?

We have the "STOP" with the team's decision to focus the updates on direct developments of the existing game mechanics. Certainly all the 1.07+ patches have consisted of fixes only. We don't have a patch that includes everything official yet, but that seems to be because the official list keeps growing as additional gliches are discovered.

I guess the team could save them all up and then do a major revision down the track aways, but there are a couple of things to be said for the drip fix approach currently used. Firstly, by involving the community in progressive testing it takes some of the load off the team; and secondly, by keeping things burbling along it continues to provide a return on investment for those who have pushed several turns into a game.

As far as the dual "official" and "modding" pathways go, we have that with the decision to provide all future major modifications to the game system as options separate from the fixes. Seems to me you can't get much fairer than that.

Indeed, a consummation devoutly to be wished.

[GShock]

Some things, got off hand here, i don't think Pasternaski was criticizing anything, he was just being confused by the ultra-fast and constant patching Pocus and the Devs are doing on the game. Never seen a game being devved so fast and patched so often.

I'm sure he'll get used to this devving style, and he'll also love it like we do.

Just give him time

[AndrewKurtz]

Here's my personal opinion (which I'm sure everyone was dying to hear )

1. The number of patches are simply a result of AACW being the best supported game I've ever seen. I hope it never changes. When something is wrong, they fix it. How wonderful is that? I actually don't think anyone is complaining about the number of official patches.

2. There is a process in place for making MODs official. AGEOD will include them in an official patch (easy to identify because you can download them from the bottom of one of Pocus' e-mails). Otherwise, they are not official and are completely a matter of personal preference.

3. Don't stop modding! Some will not meet with any approval, some will have limited approval while others will be acclaimed must-haves. In the end, I trust AGEOD that they will correctly choose which ones are improvements to the current game and they will be included in a patch (and thus official).

4. Keep MOD discussions out of the AACW Headquarters and in the MOD forum. I think this is what is causing the most confusion. Folks are not sure which threads are about official game functions and which are about MODS. They see patches to MODS and are confused as to whether they should be installed. (On a side note, my only confusion on this is why anyone else is confused. But that doesn't matter. They are. To reiterate, it's only official if it is in a patch you can download from the bottom of one of Pocus' e-mails...it really isn't that confusing).

5. I wish there was a better way (and maybe there is), to manage MODS because some PBEMers want to use some and others don't. Again, maybe there is and I don't know it.

6. AGEOD (and the games they produce) ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tagwyn]

Dear P... whatever. I beg to differ; you said you were offended. Can't have it both ways whippersnapper! Back to the drawing board. Is the latest patch fit for assimilation!!? Tagwyn