Places to Attack

[GraniteStater]

Oh. Those objective cities are mostly a suggestion. You get the victory screen based on NM, as listed on the obj screen. I won my current game without having advanced south of a Petersburg-Nashville-Little Rock line. But I did put 100k secesh in shallow graves and another 20k in federal prisons.

Well, well, well. Learn something every day. A tip of the kepi to you, sir - you are a bloodspiller par excellence.

Their blood, of course, not yours. That is the general idea, I assume.

[Cromagnonman]

Thank you, sirrah. I managed to starve about 35k secesh during the first winter, including Longstreet, T Jackson, and Beauregard. That definitely helped. Ironically, I used the strategic defensive to draw them into an overextended offensive; Clasewitz even might have approved. My total losses are running roughly half theirs.

In my experience, destroying elements is the best way to move NM. Remember that Grant finally won by targetting Lee and forcing him to battle over and over. A war of objective cities favors the South; a war of manpower attrition favors the North.

Regarding conscription, you do get CS from tents you've captured.

PS- I'd love to see your save file. All I can figure is that you paid pretty heavily to push Athena back into those few states, while she kept her armies intact. IRL, The CSA didn't surrender until Lee and Johnston were almost back to back.

[GraniteStater]

Thank you, sirrah. I managed to starve about 35k secesh during the first winter, including Longstreet, T Jackson, and Beauregard. That definitely helped. Ironically, I used the strategic defensive to draw them into an overextended offensive; Clasewitz even might have approved. My total losses are running roughly half theirs.

In my experience, destroying elements is the best way to move NM. Remember that Grant finally won by targetting Lee and forcing him to battle over and over. A war of objective cities favors the South; a war of manpower attrition favors the North.

Regarding conscription, you do get CS from tents you've captured.

PS- I'd love to see your save file. All I can figure is that you paid pretty heavily to push Athena back into those few states, while she kept her armies intact. IRL, The CSA didn't surrender until Lee and Johnston were almost back to back.

"Get CS points" - where? Under what circumstances? I would swear that you can't recruit in hostile territory.

I read Liddel-Hart's Strategy many years ago. Later, I discovered Sun Tzu's The Art of War. I like to take your underpinnings out from under you.

Nothing wrong with your approach.

You beast, you.

Oh, BTW, with respect - 'sirrah' is not a complimentary term. Look it up. In Shakespeare's plays, if a character addresses another as 'sirrah', he is not speaking kindly to him.

[Cromagnonman]

Ah, thank you again, sir. I took it as a antiquated version of the preceeding salutation. Not a contemptuous one, and no disrespect intended to anyone previously so addressed.

I know that I am currently getting CS from a conquered (liberated?) Richmond. I think that, for all resources, there is no consideration of who started the scenario with what. After all, a few months before the game started, they were the sane country. However, accumulation of resources is affected by NM and regional loyalty. With an NM somewhere north (ha!) of 200 and Richmond loyalty around 17%, I'm getting about 4 CS per turn. If people like you and you're winning, they'll sign up. If unwilling to consider them as fair-weather friends, maybe think of them as liberated (and grateful) enslaved persons.

[dolphin]

"Get CS points" - where? Under what circumstances? I would swear that you can't recruit in hostile territory.

.

He is not talking about recruiting. He is talking about conscript points.

Now we have the answer. You do get extra CS from capturing tents.

[Cromagnonman]

Perhaps what you mean is, capturing tents (or even states) does not add units to your recruitment force pool on the reinforcement page for that state, nor does it allow you to raise units within that state. On the contrary, your recruitment pool is fixed from the start except thru events (AFIACT). I could definitely understand being able to recruit militia in any state provided a high enough loyalty, but I have not yet encountered any such phenomenon.

I have noticed the issue you describe, where states & their units still appear for purchase in the reinforcement page. However, I believe they have to spawn in a city you control in that state. Ergo, if you control no cities in the state, they never spawn. I do not know whether the resources you spent to buy them are refunded next turn, lost, or if the units show up in the nearest friendly city. Harbors cannot be entered by infantry and so they cannot be raised there, but maybe ships can. I suggest you load as Athena, order some units in a state she doesn't control, end the turn, and see what happens.

It does bring to mind a particular gripe I have. Conscripts are produced locally, accounted nationally, then spent locally. Which means that you can accumulate most of your CS in NY but spend them all in, say, Iowa. I think that requiring CS raised in a state to be spent only in that state would enrich the flavor of this already delicious game, but it could also complicate things a lot.

[GraniteStater]

Well, I'm thoroughly confused at this point.

[dolphin]

Well, I'm thoroughly confused at this point.

If you capture an enemies tent in a state that you cannot recruit elements/regiments/brigades in because you have no force pool in if you look in your economics screen it will still give you an increased production total in Conscripts.

Conscripts of course can be used for replacements anywhere and recruitment of new elements/regiments/brigades in states you do control and have a force pool to draw upon.

[George McClellan]

Sorry, Conscripts. It's the shorthand around here (or was at any rate).

CS - Conscript points
WS - War Supply
$ - money

Yes, we know $=money. OVER $9000 tons WS in CS!

[GraniteStater]

I hate to say this, but if you were a movie, I'd say you have continuity issues.

[Cromagnonman]

I hate to say this, but if you were a movie, I'd say you have continuity issues.

I am reminded of why my wife can't make it thru 'Raising Arizona.' "It's just too silly."

[Jim-NC]

You win by getting a high enough NM (or your enemy getting a low enough NM). You can capture every objective city and still end with a stalemate. This is due to 2 factors. The 1st is the cities NM gain/loss is just barely enough to give victor, the 2nd is what I call the "equilibrium" factor in the game. If your NM gets too high or too low, it begins to move back towars 100. So for example, if your NM is 70, after the turn processes (after day 15, but before your can move the mouse), you "gain" 1 or 2 NM to bring you back towards 100. The same if you are too high, but you will "lose" NM.

If you capture/lose a few objective cities each year, then in between your NM will drift back to 100. You must also destroy enemy armies (pre 1.15, you had to destroy elements, with 1.15 and 1.16, you can get NM for causing more casulaties with no element destruction).

I believe that the farther away you are from 100, the bigger the push to go back. So yes, you can capture all the cities and not hit your victory target, without destroying enemy armies.

PS. Sorry about the confusion with recruiting and CS points. You can only recruit new units in states you control at the beginning of the game (except KY). You get CS points for holding the cities with tents (even enemy). So if you are the union, you get CS from Richmond, but you can't raise Virginia units. As the south, you can't raise units in Maryland (but you do get unit by event). You can get CS for capturing Maryland however. Hope this clears the issue.

[GraniteStater]

How about Jeff City and St. Louis - may I conclude that I deny CS to the CSA if the Union holds it and gain CS for the Union? If the CSA holds St. Louis, does it deny Union CS and gain it?

[dolphin]

How about Jeff City and St. Louis - may I conclude that I deny CS to the CSA if the Union holds it and gain CS for the Union? If the CSA holds St. Louis, does it deny Union CS and gain it?

I think that pretty much follows the logic.

Whoever holds any tent gets a boost to conscript production.

[GraniteStater]

My question is more - can both sides recruit from MO & KY? If one side has all the Tent(s) in either State, does that deny recruitment to the other? I would think that this condition would mean Conscripts=0 in the Econ screen for the side so denied.

[dolphin]

My question is more - can both sides recruit from MO & KY? If one side has all the Tent(s) in either State, does that deny recruitment to the other? I would think that this condition would mean Conscripts=0 in the Econ screen for the side so denied.

I can't say for sure, but I am almost positive that losing a tent will not prevent you from recruiting full brigades from a states force pool using your existing pool of conscripts.

The only way I think you could possibly be able to prevent recruiting full units out of a particular states force pool would be to control every single city in that state thus depriving reenforcements from being able to appear on the map.

Of course even that would have to be tested to verify as it is possible they might enter in the closest city in a neigboring state. I say this because I do in fact remember reading about a situation where if certain event renforcements cannot arrive at a designated city because it is under enemy control they can appear in other cities. I think what I was reading refered to certain units sceduled by event to arrive in Richmond and what I read said that if Richmond is no longer controlled there is a city in Georgia (Atlanta) and another city in Tenessee (Nashville) where they would appear instead.

Since conscripts are not State specific and can be used to build units anywhere no matter where you get them from I would have to say losing conscript production from a specific State is not going to affect buying full unit reenforcements from that state.

[Cromagnonman]

Yeah, certain brigades appear near their assigned city- Gamecocks in Henrico, eg, altho their nearest friendly town/force was in Carolina. So long as you control a town in a state, you can recruit in that state. CS are produced locally, accounted nationally, and spent at a state level.

I have not yet been willing to part with on of my states to see if I can still recruit there

[Jim-NC]

My question is more - can both sides recruit from MO & KY? If one side has all the Tent(s) in either State, does that deny recruitment to the other? I would think that this condition would mean Conscripts=0 in the Econ screen for the side so denied.

Yes, both sides can recruit from KY and MO. As Cromagnonman states, you can recruit brigades as long as you have a city. You do not need the tent.

The level of forces you can recruit depend on scripted events. MO has the St. Louis Massacre. KY decides to join a side. On KY, when it joins a side, that side gets more units to recruit. If the state joins the other side, then your recruiting is more limited.

[GraniteStater]

OK, thx - but...

as stated above, I load up the CSA side in a 62 US start (Colonel) where it is now Feb65.

The only States that have CS>=1 are those with Tents that are not US occupied, viz., TX, FL, NC. The CS points are just 1 or 2. So the CSA CS total is 4 or 5. This is the Econ screen for the CSA.

Could a unit be deployed in TN? - sure, Knoxville is unoccipied, so is Meriden, MS, Alexandria, LA, etc. The CSA has probably a total of eight Strat Cities left, no Objectives unoccupied by the North, but a goodly number of Towns and Cities available for deployment.

Taking the Tents is worth it, right? The CSA is down to its last gasp in CS points, AFAICS...

right?

And to repeat - so, you need all Towns & Cities in MO to shut off deployment of new units there; same for KY; same for any State. But CS=0 (for the other side) for the State, if all Tents are taken, although a Unit can be raised in Reinforcements from that State and deployed there, if a City or Town is available, because CS points are pooled nationally and the Reinforcement box for those State's Units is still open for business.

I think I got it straight.

[Jim-NC]

I am not 100% sure about having to garrison all cities. As the CSA, I have raised troops in MO when the only city I owned was Charleston (on the banks of the Mississippi), which isn't a strategic city IIRC. But i owned it at the beginning of the turn.

I believe that a unit *could* be raised in a city that is not garrisoned. I have not tried it (in the scenario you describe it would be suicide to raise forces in TN, and so I would not even try).

As for taking the tent cities, yes it is worth it. Not only are you denying your opponent CS, but you get them instead. At 4-5 per turn, the enemy can not even call up 1 infantry replacement chit a turn (needs 2 or 3). Imagine, no replacements or reinforcements for the CSA while you have plenty of both (until the draft/call for volunteers options are used).

And yes, CS points are raised locally, pooled nationally, and spent locally (not in the same area they are generated).

[Cromagnonman]

Reinforcements can appear in any city you control within their state. They are more likely to appear in larger cities, but any city will do. No garrison is required.
No one has figured out what happens when you buy reinforcements from a state in which you control no cities.

Your best bet at this point in the game would be to simply smash up whatever stacks are left to your enemy. Doesn't matter if you win the battles, you should be able to wear them down through attrition if you are as far ahead as you suggest. Again, a save file would be appreciated. I can't imagine how you beat Athena back into such a corner (well, 3 corners) without a NM victory.

[GraniteStater]

Not the first time it's happened. And to tell you the truth, I probably won't even bother - it's a win.

To kinds answer your question, in this particular game, 1.16rc4a, Colonel, 62 start, it took quite a while before I finally established the upper hand. Athena dueled quite skillfully and strongly in VA. KY/TN was an ongoing struggle for two years. The Union starts in possession of Nashville, but I know from experience that Athena goes for it big time - you need to guard it for a long time in strength - and still, she took it! Had to retake it. The Colonel difficulty number of men Athena can field is significant. I had taken N. O. rather early, but couldn't expand beyond Pike and Baton Rouge for a long while, because the maw of war in VA & TN was sucking up manpower. I was burning through Replacements for Inf every turn.

Finally, by late 63, early 64, it began to turn, and by the summer of 64, I could smell victory. The Leaders start to make a difference in individual Battles, I think. Little Rock had been taken fairly early and the Trans-Miss wasn't a problem.

By summer of 64, TN was finally secured without an argument and I sent Thomas and some friends towards Vicksburg, so no Mississippi campaign; Grant sent Sherman off tackle from Chattanooga and he took Atlanta in two Turns. I had had Charlestion, SC since late 62. Athena finally made a mistake and I executed my usual Charlottesville sweep towards Richmomd and took it.

From then on, it was mostly mopping up and covering the bases; seizing Montgomery, taking Mobile. Her only centers of resistance are isolated from one another and weak - TX, FL, NC.