Attack Stance while entrenched...

[Banks6060]

I have a not-necessarily quick question that involves a situation here...

The question:

If units that are entrenched enter an offensive posture....do they receive a bonus from entrenchment during battle?



Let's say...perchance...I've got a corps sitting at entrenchment level 6 with 100 percent control of the region it's sitting in....the corps is in "Defensive" Posture

Then enemy marches their army into the region in "Passive" Posture and does not come into contact with my troops, but also does not increase their Military Control over the region. If I were to attack them (because whatever they do...they'll end up in either passive, or offensive posture)...would I end up with my entrenchment bonus??

[W.Barksdale]

If you have 100% MC the enemy stack will adopt an offensive posture.

[Banks6060]

If you have 100% MC the enemy stack will adopt an offensive posture.

I know, however if they remain in passive posture they will not assume an offensive posture no matter what their MC in the region is...see the manual on that one.

Armies in passive, despite the enemy's MC in a region will never assume an offensive posture...

....my question is whether or not MY troops will get an entrenchment bonus if in offensive posture...I don't want his army to just pass me by and enter my rear so the smart move would be to attack him...

so will my troops get the entrenchment bonus??

Basically...the general question is whether or not troops that are entrenched receive the benefit of being entrenched when attacking....if they do...then I would have an issue with that...because it makes no sense...if you're attacking...you've left your entrenchments.

[W.Barksdale]

Read the tooltip for offensive posture.

[arsan]

Basically...the general question is whether or not troops that are entrenched receive the benefit of being entrenched when attacking....if they do...then I would have an issue with that...because it makes no sense...if you're attacking...you've left your entrenchments.

I would say they wont.
As the will "leave" their entrenchment's to attack the passive stack.
Now, i will bet next turn they will still remain entrenched.
Cheers

[W.Barksdale]

I know, however if they remain in passive posture they will not assume an offensive posture no matter what their MC in the region is...see the manual on that one.

I believe this information from the manual to be out of date.
Can anyone clarify?

[Brochgale]

The passive posture is a pain. Dont be surprised if you see your troops in a passive posture and you try to change it and in the next turn nothing happens - enemy troops just skip around you - especially if you are the more powerful force - or they just retreat back the way they came. It will be infuriating? Entrenching has its downside - immediate attacks are out of the question it seems? Check also that you dont have long delays on your settings? This can also cause delays to attacks - such that it looks as if your units dont take any actions at all when encountering enemy?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Clovis]

With a date stamp on the latest manual of 6/20/2007, it is rather obviously out of date since there have been literally hundreds of changes to the code since then. The current manual is only useful for getting a general idea of how to play the game, not for detailed information. Tooltips on the other hand, are generally updated much more often, since they are part of the game itself.

The NCP manual is more interesting for AACW as game engine is the same. Much more detailed and up to date, it's a wonderful mine of informations.

[Coregonas]

It seemed clear to me than OFFENSIVE posture AVOIDS bonus from TERRAIN / TRENCHS.

So, no one of 2 Offensive - Postured armies get bonuses at all.

However, I believe trenches remain after a battle (exception-> if retreated), so if next turn defensive posture is selected, the trenched army gets the bonus (both trench / terrain)

Perhaps im in a mistake, but seems this is the way this is designed.

[Coregonas]

Armies in passive, despite the enemy's MC in a region will never assume an offensive posture...

....my question is whether or not MY troops will get an entrenchment bonus if in offensive posture...I don't want his army to just pass me by and enter my rear so the smart move would be to attack him...

so will my troops get the entrenchment bonus??

Basically...the general question is whether or not troops that are entrenched receive the benefit of being entrenched when attacking....if they do...then I would have an issue with that...because it makes no sense...if you're attacking...you've left your entrenchments.

I believe you are right, about passive posture, but not sure if battle can be avoided so easily by a big stack. Really a lot of time enemy corps enter well defended areas without battle... disrupting defender somewhat, as it expects a big battle!

Having 2 separate corps (one in offensive / other defensive) allows you:

in case the enemy holds passive: to attack the enemy, supported by the other (march to the sound) and adding the malus from pasive mode to the enemy

in case it goes offensive (or defensive-> turns to offensive): the enemy attacks both of your corps, supported by the march of guns. Some luck is involved, if your Defensive corps is first targeted, you will add the trench bonus, if the offensive you will not.

However, Im not sure 100% this is the way it works.

[Banks6060]

Thanks alot for the info fellas. I was really worried that I would get an unfair bonus if I attacked out of my entrenchments....and I figured the remedy for that would be to have one corps on attack and the other on defense like you said Coregonas....

As far as moving through enemy territory in passive posture goes...this might be the game's way of simulating a successful "flanking maneuvre"?

[GShock]

As far as moving through enemy territory in passive posture goes...this might be the game's way of simulating a successful "flanking maneuvre"?

Well, flankers are on the offense, passive is just avoiding contact.

Anyway, take Gray's suggestion on the engine. Too updated to be reflected in the manual coming with the game. I know someone is working on an updated version...anyone got an ETA on that (meanwhile the forums are the best source of information)?

[Banks6060]

Well, flankers are on the offense, passive is just avoiding contact.

Ah I understand your logic there, but on the contrary...Jackson't sweep around Pope (sorry to reference it again) was not intended to actually ATTACK anyone...he was just trying not to get caught and destroy his supply line...THEN find a nice place to defend. Yanno...like an unfinished rail-grade. visa vi "Passive" posture...



But I know what you mean. I think if an army of larger size, in passive posture is able to move past an army of smaller size in defensive posture, into it's rear...that this would be a solution to the lack of mobility once enemies entrench opposite one another.

[GShock]

But I know what you mean. I think if an army of larger size, in passive posture is able to move past an army of smaller size in defensive posture, into it's rear...that this would be a solution to the lack of mobility once enemies entrench opposite one another.

This is why AACW has been retrofitted with NCP engagement options. If your smaller army wants, you can engage (and eventually draw reinforcements from nearby stacks) and withdraw. The opponent in passive will be penalyzed and most likely pushed back to avoid further engagement. However, do not forget stacks automatically change posture when entering regions where the MC is very low...so it all depends on how you are controlling that and the adjacent territories...that stack will move towards you in passive, but as it enters it will likely become aggressive.

[Pocus]

Stacks in passive don't autoswitch to Offensive even in 0% MC. This is done so that a retreating stack (still in the region it attacked/defended) don't suddenly initiate a combat before the end of the turn. I guess this can be exploited somehow by trying to pass thru a defended region... except that you have the zone of control rule which will pin you in the said region (the regions behind the front should show in red). So overall I believe the system is coherent.

As for a corps attacking, there is absolutly no way it can benefit from entrenchments.

[GShock]

Stacks in passive don't autoswitch to Offensive even in 0% MC. This is done so that a retreating stack (still in the region it attacked/defended) don't suddenly initiate a combat before the end of the turn.

From the manual: In regions with 5% or less military control (i.e. enemy territory), a force will automatically adopt offensive posture in an attempt to get a foothold there. However, forces in passive posture or those composed entirely of cavalry, irregulars and support units may transit through enemy territory without switching posture.

The chapter carries on saying engaging in enemy territory is a risky proposition....etc etc.

Actually i've seen my stacks autoswitching during the resolution from passive to offensive as soon as i hit the next turn button and i do believe a region with less than 33% control is highly hostile and should block supplies and rail movement (instead of 25% we have now as you know). I think with less than 33% the stacks should autoswitch to offensive so as to increase control and allow those supplies to pass and the rails to be used with some sort of safety but that's another disquisition not for this thread.

Is there something i'm missing about the <5% MC? I thought stacks in such low MC would autoswitch...no?

[Pocus]

The manual is correct, and the code is doing what the manual says... no problem thus

[Banks6060]

Here's another one here....

What if...I am an aggressor, with an army in "offensive posture", but also with the "Avoid Battle" option selected.

I'm assuming what that will do is increase MC, but prevent the stack from engaging the enemy defenders?? That is all based on patrol/evade values I know...but I wasn't totally sure.

[Pocus]

If you manage to avoid battle when there is the check, then yes it should work, but the check has only a real chance to be made if you have a force fits for evasion, or if the enemy is not numerous. And if failed, you will attack as you are in offensive posture.