Two Newbie Questions re April '61 CSA Campaign

[Johnny Canuck]

After playing around with the demo, I finally purchased the game on Monday & have been playing as the CSA in the April 1861 campaign, & have two questions:

1. Regarding the rail & river transport pools, what does 'full transportation' actually represent? Does it mean that I have enough points to move supplies & ammo sufficient to keep all my units supplied, or enough points to move all supplies & ammo produced by my cities, or something else? The reason I ask is that obviously the CSA starts out at less than full transportation, and I am wondering how high a priority expanding the rail & river transport pools should be. Can I get away with less than full transportation in the long run, or should expanding the pools be a top priority?

2. At the start of the April 1861 campaign, the CSA has a number of coastal artillery batteries in forts that are significantly understrength. However, the cost of replacements for heavy artillery is prohibitive ($47 & 15 War Supplies), & I don't think I can possibly afford enough replacements to get all the coastal artillery batteries up to full strength before the Union fleets start bombarding. Is there something I'm missing, or should I accept that some coastal forts will not be at full strength?

My apologies if these questions have been answered somewhere else - I've looked through the manual, but haven't been able to figure them out. Thanks for any suggestions anyone might have.

BTW, this game is awesome.

[Stonewall]

1. No idea what full capacity means. With regard to investing, however, as the CSA I try to invest in 10 rail points per turn as an expansion. Sometimes I have other more pressing needs, but I try to average 200 points per year expansion of the rails.

2. Coastal Artillery is a waste of resources. The Union Navy will just destroy the guns anyway. I usually place 2 or 3 brigades on a rail junction behind the main coastal areas as a rapid reaction force that can rail to any point of invasion within 10 days or 1 turn at most. That said, the ai does not yet like to launch coastal invasions, so for the most part, I leave 2 forces in the rear areas (one around Camden and the other around Mobile) just in case. Human opponents are another story entirely.

[Johnny Canuck]

Thanks for the tips, Stonewall.

As for the CSA Coastal Artillery, I tweaked one of the CSA free replacements events to add a few free heavy artillery replacements. In the long run, though, as you suggested, those guns will last as long as the USN lets them.

[Wilhammer]

The Capacity of Rail (and River Transport as well).

The Number you have is used for this;

1. Supply distribution.
2. Unit/Element Transport Capacity.

You have rows on top, 0, 1/3rd, 2/3rd, 3/3rd and Full your capacity needed for a complete SUPPLY Network; how much of the supply to be stockpiled in your depots and other eligible locations is going to get there relative to available rail capacity. So if you are expecting 100 to arrive in Sometown, USA, if you are at 1/3rd, you get, you guessed it, only 33/100 Rail Transported supplies get on the trains to Sometown.

(I am sure it actually calculates this by 'supply available/supply needed' for the deliveries)

--Transport. When you put your guys on a train, they use up Rail Capacity by subtracting from your Transport Pool.

Click on a unit, see the Rail (or River) Transport points go down. Undo it to get them back. Notably, distance traveled on the rails does not seem to matter to cost.

You can purchase as much rail as you want; I try to keep a surplus that will meet all my transport needs and keep the supply net at 100%. Try.

The tool tip will give you further details concerning your numbers.

[Johnny Canuck]

Wilhammer - I understand what you are saying, but I guess my question is how much supply does the system attempt to stockpile at given locations?

Here's a specific example - say I have the ANV at Manassas, with a depot, & I have 50% rail transport. Does the depot attempt to draw just enough supplies to meet the supply needs of the ANV, & thus only gets 50% of the supplies the ANV needs (in which case the ANV would eventually run out of supplies), or does the depot attempt to draw as many supplies as it can (i.e. more than the ANV needs), in which case 50% of 'as many supplies as it can' might be more than the ANV needs?

In essence, can all of my armies stay fully supplied even if rail/river transport is not at 100%?

[Spruce]

hey Johny, nice to see you over at these boards.

What I know is that you buy "rail stock", like locomotives and wagons. You don't actually expand your network. It seems logical, the more "rail stock", the more capacity in supplies to ship. But I think, troop movement comes first - and not second!

I'm a bit puzzled to by these figures to and could use a good oversight on the matter.

[Pocus]

no there is no magical setting that allow all your armies to stay at 100%, even if full railroad capacity. It depends on how much supplies you have on map, where are your depots and where are your armies. The supply system is a sophisticated algorithm which attempt to automate how supply is spread in all your depots and cities, taking into account many parameters.

The more rail capacity you have, the better and farther your supplies can travel by railroad, so it allows basically the function to optimize better things.

But as with all things regarding logistics (and this is particularly true in the ACW era), there is much wastage or rotting stocks. Actually I think the automated supply system does a job vastly more efficient and optimized that the quatermasters could do during the era, but this is another story.

If you are not satisfied with the supply distribution, you have a manual tool in your hand: supply wagons. They will only give back their supply to units, so you can stockpile manually with them.

[Spruce]

Pocus,

can you explain the tooltip when you mouse over it (I mean the little table up there where the actual figures are described)

[Hobbes]

Wilhammer - I understand what you are saying, but I guess my question is how much supply does the system attempt to stockpile at given locations?

Here's a specific example - say I have the ANV at Manassas, with a depot, & I have 50% rail transport. Does the depot attempt to draw just enough supplies to meet the supply needs of the ANV, & thus only gets 50% of the supplies the ANV needs (in which case the ANV would eventually run out of supplies), or does the depot attempt to draw as many supplies as it can (i.e. more than the ANV needs), in which case 50% of 'as many supplies as it can' might be more than the ANV needs?

In essence, can all of my armies stay fully supplied even if rail/river transport is not at 100%?

On the question of depots; if I build a depot in a region this depot will attempt
to draw an increased amount of supply to it's general area. In doing this I assume it could have a negative impact on the amount of supply recieved
by my troops in other areas?

[Gresbeck]

If you are not satisfied with the supply distribution, you have a manual tool in your hand: supply wagons. They will only give back their supply to units, so you can stockpile manually with them.

That's a point I'm not sure I get. Since BoA, I thought supply wagons distribute their supply to units to which they are attached. In AACW it seems supply wagons can distribute their supply to supply depots. But how does it work? Are supply wagons supposed to unload automatically their supply when they arrive into a province with a depot? BTW, does the same system work for riverine transports?
Two other questions about river supply net:
1. Do riverine transports contribute to the automated distribution system?
2. What should I do to improve my riverine transport capacity? Is it better to build riverine transports as reinforcements or should I "buy" riverine transport points through the economic screen?

[oldspec4]

That's a point I'm not sure I get. Since BoA, I thought supply wagons distribute their supply to units to which they are attached. In AACW it seems supply wagons can distribute their supply to supply depots. But how does it work? Are supply wagons supposed to unload automatically their supply when they arrive into a province with a depot? BTW, does the same system work for riverine transports?
Two other questions about river supply net:
1. Do riverine transports contribute to the automated distribution system?
2. What should I do to improve my riverine transport capacity? Is it better to build riverine transports as reinforcements or should I "buy" riverine transport points through the economic screen?

I have the same questions

[Johnny Canuck]

Hi, Spruce. I've been reading this forum for a few weeks, but only downloaded the demo a few days ago. Two days with the demo was enough to convince me I had to get this game ASAP.

Pocus - Thanks for the detailed response. I really like how so much of the detailed supply movement is handled automatically. I guess over time players will figure out intuitively how much transport is needed, in terms of where there armies are located in relation to depots, rail lines, etc.

BTW, I've noticed that the amount of rail/river transport needed to reach 'full transportation' increases as the size of my armies increase. Is there a relationship between the two?

[Hobbes]

Do the lack of answers to this thread mean that everyone is confused?

[Conhugeco]

hey Johny, nice to see you over at these boards.

Hi Spruce, hi Canuck, hi Wilhammer.

Dick

[Pocus]

Do the lack of answers to this thread mean that everyone is confused?

speaking of me it just meant I was sleeping

[Pocus]

Here are some of the hints messages we will add soon in the AI phase, to let you wait more easily, they are all about the supply rules:

Supply Rule: Each unit can carry an innate stock in food & water (also known as General Supply or simply Supply) and Ammo. Most units will use General Supply each turn and Ammo in battles.

Supply Rule: A valid supply source during the supply distribution phase is a one of these three structures types: City (any level), Depot, or Fort.

Supply Rule: A valid location to stockpile General Supply during the Supply Distribution Phase is a City (level 3+), Depot, Fort or a Supply Wagon. Towns (level 1-2 'city') never request General Supply.

Supply Rule: General Supply is only generated by structures which is then distributed to others structures or nearby units.

Supply Rule: Having enough rail points and river points in the Transport Pool helps greatly when it comes to distributing supply (only if there is a controlled network in the area where the supply moves though).

Supply Rule: The Supply Distribution Phase is split into three Distributions Segments. Each segment allows the spread of the supply from sources to nearby stocks. Rail and River points will help this distribution.

Supply Rule: When a supply point is given to a supply stock which is also a source during one Distribution Segment, it can be pushed forward further, in Distributions Segments #2 and #3.

Supply Rule: Ideally, you will want to establish Supply Depots (supply lanes) so that your supply points can spread smoothly and intelligently without bottlenecks and gaps.

Supply Rule: Beware of not having major gaps between two parts of your supply network. Supply can't move farther than five regions during a given Distribution Segment (Each Supply Phase has three such Segments). It is advisable to create Depots every three to five regions.

Supply Rule: Supply Wagons have the unique ability to attract supply in the Supply Distribution Phase several regions away from any supply stockpile (only structures can stockpile).

Supply Rule: Supply Wagons can't establish a supply lane themselves. This means that a chain of wagons won't be able to transmit supply at the end of the chain. For that you need a chain of structures (Depots generally).

Supply Rule: Supply Wagons never give back their stock to structures. This means that you can manually move your depleted wagons to your rear area stockpiles, have them replenish, and then move them back to the front (by train ideally).

Supply Rule: When the Supply Distribution Phase is done, military units will seek to be replenished from structures or Supply Wagons. They can be replenished even if adjacent to such points of supply.

Supply Rule: The Union has the advantage of having a Naval Supply System. Ships with a Cargo Capacity in the Atlantic Blockade Box will try to reshuffle supply between the Union-controlled ports and Depots on the coast.

[tagwyn]

Pocus: Thanks!

[Wilhammer]

Thanks.

Just how does RR and RT influence supply distribution?

[Hohenlohe]

Thanks Pocus,I have now understand how supply functions...

[jimwinsor]

Ah one more question: Ships units with a cargo capacity (River Transports, Ocean Transports, Brigs, Gunboats, etc...)...would be it accurate to say that when not out in a sea box, they can function exactly as Supply Wagons as described above?

[Pocus]

Thanks.

Just how does RR and RT influence supply distribution?

there is a temporary supply wagon created during the supply phase, which move around (with full pathfinding calculation) to see where supply can be delivered. If you have enough rail and/or riverine, he will uses rail cost and will move on rivers, thus the supply can reach better the destinations. Between 2 depots in plain and clear weather, this won't be important, because by wheel the wagon would have reached it, but in many cases (difficult terrain, bad weather), the rail/river move will help him move in a much more efficient way. Just see how long are 5 regions of rivers and you will understand how interesting it can be for this little wagon to have some riverine points around.

[Pocus]

Ah one more question: Ships units with a cargo capacity (River Transports, Ocean Transports, Brigs, Gunboats, etc...)...would be it accurate to say that when not out in a sea box, they can function exactly as Supply Wagons as described above?

not exactly, you need ships which are 'support ships', so this exclude brigs and gunboats. Only transports are pure transports and act as a supply wagons in all ways (including being converted into a depot if anchored at an harbor)

[tc237]

there is a temporary supply wagon created during the supply phase, which move around (with full pathfinding calculation) to see where supply can be delivered.

AH HA!!
I see know. A little wagon.
So, in theory, the excess rail and river points are used to move imaginary supply wagons around.

If the player looks at his supply routes as avenues for the imaginary supply wagons, they should have an easier time figuring it all out.

Brilliant!

[Johnny Canuck]

Pocus - Thank you for the detailed comments regarding the supply system. I think I've got a much better grip on how the movement of supplies works, & how rail & river transport affects it.

[Gresbeck]

Thanks Pocus.