Ridiculous Union Defeats

[George McClellan]

I am fed up with this engine. Not much to say about turns, other than the fact of the low Cohesion of Bank's corps. Look at these pictures!


Yes, I did attack with much less men, but we suffered much less casualties than the Rebels. Help?

[dGSe]

I agree with you !!
I had the same thing in several pbem in RuS actually, a brigade of 8000 men annihilated without any loss opposite, it is just an example but that often arrives indeed this disproportion in losses is little historic (namely that in case of 0 victim it is necessary to count the persons killed, wounded or missing what represents at least some men)

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

No doubt General McDowell will be court-martialed for his incompetence in battle

[George McClellan]

I agree with you !!
I had the same thing in several pbem in RuS actually, a brigade of 8000 men annihilated without any loss opposite, it is just an example but that often arrives indeed this disproportion in losses is little historic (namely that in case of 0 victim it is necessary to count the persons killed, wounded or missing what represents at least some men)

Quite.

No doubt General McDowell will be court-martialed for his incompetence in battle

And have me take command.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Looks to me like you killed a brigade that was by itself, then when the main CSA force engaged, you skedaddled with your tail between your legs. While certainly not a tactical defeat, it very well could be a strategic defeat.

[Jim-NC]

Looks to me like you killed a brigade that was by itself, then when the main CSA force engaged, you skedaddled with your tail between your legs. While certainly not a tactical defeat, it very well could be a strategic defeat.

I agree with the above in regards to July. You engaged a single brigade of 1 Mil, 1 inf, and 1 light inf. You crushed said unit, but retreated after the first part of the battle. This is probably when the entire CSA force fought. Remember, the after battle report (your pictures) shows all units in the region, even if they did not engage in battle (for example, you see ships which certainly did not engage. Also, in the July shots, 12% of the enemy is inside the town. That equates to approximately 11 elements that were inside Richmond.

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

You may be right regarding the battle in July, but the first battle in May certainly does not seem like a union defeat. It seems McDowell engaged the main rebel army in the region and survived. If it had been a lone brigade, he would've destroyed the units like he did in July. In May he simply engaged the rebels, inflicted heavy casualties, and retreated.

The best way to tell if it really was a defeat is by the message screen. Does it say "Union retreated from battle in Richmond, VA, taking x number of hits"? If so, then you lost the battle. If the rebels were the ones who took hits during the retreat, then they were the ones who lost.

[Jim-NC]

You may be right regarding the battle in July, but the first battle in May certainly does not seem like a union defeat. It seems McDowell engaged the main rebel army in the region and survived. If it had been a lone brigade, he would've destroyed the units like he did in July. In May he simply engaged the rebels, inflicted heavy casualties, and retreated.

The best way to tell if it really was a defeat is by the message screen. Does it say "Union retreated from battle in Richmond, VA, taking x number of hits"? If so, then you lost the battle. If the rebels were the ones who took hits during the retreat, then they were the ones who lost.

In May, there is a union retreated icon (the arrow in a semi-circle). It doesn't tell why they retreated, just that they retreated (or tried to reteat) at least once during the battle.

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

George, how is it that between the battles in May and July your number of troops decreased by about 1,300 men and on both sides the number of canons increased? The number of regiments is the same; how did you lose so many troops in between?

In May, there is a union retreated icon (the arrow in a semi-circle). It doesn't tell why they retreated, just that they retreated (or tried to reteat) at least once during the battle.

Good catch Jim. But I was suggesting that maybe it was a Union defeat because the Union took lots of hits during the retreat. I don't know if this happened, but it's just a guess. A disorderly retreat can make any victory into a defeat.

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

Another suggestion:

In both battles it shows the Union was crossing a river/stream. Perhaps McDowell was trying to force a crossing of the river under heavy enemy presence. So he tried to cross, fired at the rebels on the other side and destroyed a few regiments. But then he confronted Bory's much larger army, which prevented him from completing his river crossing. So in the end McDowell is on the same side of the river he started on, and all he succeeded in doing was inflicting some casualties to no gain.

[George McClellan]

George, how is it that between the battles in May and July your number of troops decreased by about 1,300 men and on both sides the number of canons increased? The number of regiments is the same; how did you lose so many troops in between?
<snip>

Interesting you call attention to this! I don't know!

Looks to me like you killed a brigade that was by itself, then when the main CSA force engaged, you skedaddled with your tail between your legs. While certainly not a tactical defeat, it very well could be a strategic defeat.

I see how you could be correct, but my army did not leave (or start to leave) the region following the battle.

[Stauffenberg]

Just thinking out loud, but could it be that the battle being fought in Richmond VA exerts a special effect on outcomes (i.e. the enemy capital); after all, politically any rebuff of a serious enemy attack to take your capital region would count as a victory, whatever the manpower losses.

[George McClellan]

Just thinking out loud, but could it be that the battle being fought in Richmond VA exerts a special effect on outcomes (i.e. the enemy capital); after all, politically any rebuff of a serious enemy attack to take your capital region would count as a victory, whatever the manpower losses.

This is probably WAD. Let's ask Lodilefty!