victory points

[moni kerr]

Does anyone know how I can tell if I'm getting vp for strategic regions? Only the major objectives are on the list but the rest may not always be giving vp when I occupy them. How many elements do I need as the Union to get vp for Bowling Green (20% Union loyalty) for example.

I'm certain I've shortchanged myself in the tourney by under garrisoning some of these towns, but which ones?

[charlesonmission]

Good question. As far as I know, if it says "controlled' in the region description, you get the VP. You usually need an infantry element there to control it.

Does anyone know how I can tell if I'm getting vp for strategic regions? Only the major objectives are on the list but the rest may not always be giving vp when I occupy them. How many elements do I need as the Union to get vp for Bowling Green (20% Union loyalty) for example.

I'm certain I've shortchanged myself in the tourney by under garrisoning some of these towns, but which ones?

[Jim-NC]

As I understand it, you can't use Militia to garrison, unless the loyalty is in your favor.

The Screen with objectives are for NM gains/losses. The VP cities are not listed (they show up on the map as strategic cities).

[gchristie]

Given how far I am behind in victory points in the tourney I'm hardly the expert, but I'm wondering if these items from the wiki help?

Victory Points (VP)

Each side accumulates VP’s every turn by controlling important cities and objectives or by destroying enemy units. The objectives screen (F9 key) shows on the left page how many VP’s you gain each turn (VP’s can be expended during the course of the game, as a currency, but remember, he who has the most at scenario’s end wins if nobody achieved an automatic victory). On the right page, each objective is listed with its worth (this amount is how much NM is gained/lost when capturing/losing an objective). Current VP level is also tallied in the upper left corner of the main screen and is your main indicator about how well you are doing in the game.
VP Accumulation
• Strategic city – 1 VP/Turn
• Objective city – 1-3 VP/Turn depending on the value set by scenario designer
• Destroyed units – Per each unit
Note: You don’t lose VP’s when your own units are destroyed.

I assume when they say controlling a SC or OC they mean military control. Again from the wiki.

Effects of various levels of control
More than 25%
You can use any rail lines in the region, both for moving units and for moving supply.

More than 50%
You will have a detection value of at least 2 in the region.

Gaining control

Whenever you have combat units in a region, they will increase your control of it, depending on how many and how large the units are, as well as their police rating.

They don't define what a "combat unit" is for these purposes but I think Jim is right that militia garrisoning probably won't do as i think they have a low police rating.

Failing to properly garrison will lead to a revolt in some cases.


That's my understanding at any rate.

[moni kerr]

Thanks everyone. I think Jim is right about militia and low loyalty. So the logical question is what is the loyalty threshold to use militia and get the vp?

[Altaris]

If loyalty is 51+, it does not have to be garrisoned.

If loyalty is 50 or lower, it has to be garrisoned by at least 1 regular element.

[Durk]

To emphasis what Altaris is saying, 51% plus, militia is fine.
50% or lower, get a regular unit in the area.

[Captain_Orso]

One thing that is a bit confusing is that while looking at the tool-tip of a region with an Objective City it will show for example(This is in Union controlled Norfolk VA):

Strategic Objective Union (or -United States- I don't remember at the moment)
Strategic Objective Confederacy: uncontrolled

It's somewhat ambiguous as it doesn't say that it is United States controlled;only CS uncontrolled. Better would be if is simply stated:

Strategic Objective: United States controlled

or

Strategic Objective: Confederate controlled.

Regions with strategic towns/cities don't display this information, they just show the military control and loyalty of the region.

It wouldn't be bad if the tool-tip also stated whether or not you are getting VPs for the region or not.

Aside from the obvious military aspects of it and the VPs, the only thing I know of that garrisoning actually does is gradually raise loyalty and prevent the population from revolting and generat a militia unit in the region. For this AFAIK a militia regiment alone is enough; artillery alone I know won't work because I've had revolts in some of the Missouri towns while temporarily garrisoned with a lone artillery battery. It's probably the same with supply units.

Edit: *duh*

[lodilefty]

One thing that is a bit confusing is that while looking at the tool-tip of a region with an Objective City it will show for example(This is in Union controlled Norfolk VA):

Strategic Objective Union (or -United States- I don't remember at the moment)
Strategic Objective Confederacy: uncontrolled

It's somewhat ambiguous as it doesn't say that it is United States controlled;only CS uncontrolled. Better would be if is simply stated:

Strategic Objective: United States controlled

or

Strategic Objective: Confederate controlled.

Regions with strategic towns/cities don't display this information, they just show the military control and loyalty of the region.

It wouldn't be bad if the tool-tip also stated whether or not you are getting VPs for the region or not.

Aside from the obvious military aspects of it and the VPs, the only thing I know of that garrisoning actually does is gradually raise loyalty and prevent the population from revolting and generat a militia unit in the region. For this AFAIK a militia regiment alone is enough; artillery alone I know won't work because I've had revolts in some of the Missouri towns while temporarily garrisoned with a lone artillery battery. It's probably the same with supply units.

Edit: *duh*

The reason Strategic Objectives are listed twice is that there are several "Assymetric" Objectives, where only one side has it as Objective.

WAD

[Captain_Orso]

but not in AACW, or have I no idea

But it still doesn't actually state that the one side controls the objective, just that the other doesn't, which doesn't necessarily mean that the first side does.

In a game as complex as AACW the less ambivalence the graphics and displaying of information the better, even if it were to state this in the manual somewhere.

[Altaris]

To emphasis what Altaris is saying, 51% plus, militia is fine.
50% or lower, get a regular unit in the area.

I don't think that's right. I think 51+, you get VP irregardless of whether there are units there or not, no need even for militia (though it's possible I've never actually seen this as most of these have a static militia in them).

I do know for a fact that you don't get VP from 50 or lower loyalty objectives unless you have 1 Regular element garrisoning the region.

Any way going, the Objectives show up on the Objectives screen with a different looking flag if they are not giving the owner VP (been a while since I've seen it, IIRC, it looks like a red pirate flag).

[Captain_Orso]

[font="Tahoma"]I'm going to ask everybody to stop using these ambiguous terms such as 'regular unit', of which there is no definition. It doesn't help if we aren't specific in what we state.

My assertion is that to control any structure you need only have occupied it last with a 'combat unit'.

From the Wiki under Manual:Army organization[/font]

[INDENT]What is a Unit?
---------------------
The Unit Panel shows all of the different components of a Force, which fall under the term “unit”. There are many types of units in the game representing anything from full divisions to independent artillery batteries or administrative staff (headquarters), but they all share the ability to be moved and be given orders individually if needed. This makes them the smallest elements in the game that you can manipulate, although they seldom operate alone and are usually grouped into forces, as explained above.

Exceptions: Divisions are a special case of units, as they can be further split into several units.

Leaders are also treated like units in most respects and can be manipulated just like them. However, they are rated differently. The main characteristics of combat units and leaders are displayed right on their counter in the Unit Panel.[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]Link to another Wiki page from the above word unit[/font]

[INDENT]Unit
---------------------
Units are the basic playing pieces of AACW and can represent anything ranging from a regiment (single-element units), to multi-regiment brigades to divisions. Units are in turn collected into stacks, which represent forces of any size.
[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]From this we see that everything depicted in the Unit Display is a unit and that it differentiates Leaders from being 'Combat Units'. But are other 'units' also not 'combat units'? Yes, well hidden from the beaten path in the Wiki under Frontage we find:[/font]

[INDENT]Combat Units Quota
---------------------
For each terrain type, there is a Combat Units Quota and a separate Support Units Quota which limits the number of combat and support elements on each side that can engage in combat during a single combat round (the quota covers all units participating in the combat, not separately computed for each division or stack). The quotas are unaffected by weather, except in the case of cities and forts, where for some reason they are somewhat reduced in clear weather.

Important: for purposes of frontage, artillery is considered [to be] a support unit, so it fills up the Support Units Quota.[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]Also further down, under 'Army' sub heading 'Procedure' we find:[/font]

[INDENT]Notes: An army HQ with combat units will react quickly to support corps formations but should not be viewed as a super combat stack. It is important to note that a lone army HQ stack will never initiate combat by itself.
[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]So, an Army-HQ is also not a 'combat unit'.

In the Wiki Manual:Complete manual[/font]

[INDENT]Military control
---------------------
Military control is represented as a percentage of control in each region. As such, a region’s control ranges from 50/50, representing a region that is equally contested by both sides, to 100/0, where one side has absolute control of the region.

If both sides have troops present in a region, neither may increase military control until one side assumes an offensive posture in an attempt to increase control of the region. If the attacker is successful, the beaten defender will lose a portion of military control and either retreat locally, in which case it will stay in the region, or retreat to an adjacent region if soundly defeated. Note that Force’s in passive posture or those composed exclusively of support units will not contest control of a region, meaning the enemy will increase its military control without fighting.

If you manage to push back the enemy from a region and leave some units to occupy it, you will gain complete military control in one or two turns, depending of the amount of troops you have. A corps on the march can even convert a region in a few days!

Effects
---------------------
Having military control of a region greatly increases both your chances of stopping an enemy force trying to cross it and the cohesion cost incurred by enemy units moving into/through the region. It also affects the chances of a corps successfully “marching to the sound of the guns”.

In addition, if you control at least 51% of a region your detection level will increase.

Finally, you cannot retreat from battle into completely hostile regions (i.e. less than 5% military control).

Note: Engaging in a battle deep within enemy territory is a very risky proposition, as losing it will result in complete destruction for lack of a retreat path!

In regions with 5% or less military control (i.e. enemy territory), a force will automatically adopt offensive posture in an attempt to get a foothold there. However, forces in passive posture or those composed entirely of cavalry, irregulars and support units may transit through enemy territory without switching posture.

Note: When penetrating into enemy territory, a force will have to face opposing forces blocking the main avenues of advance, unless fast-moving/stealthy enough to attempt infiltrating deeper into enemy territory. A force can also attempt to retreat to its lines through enemy territory, trying to avoid contact.

During amphibious assaults and river crossings into regions where you have 10% or less military control, your posture is also automatically set to offensive (unless the force is entirely composed of irregulars).

Note: Armies amphibiously landing or crossing a river have no choice but to fight the enemy defending the crossing or beach at a disadvantage. However, forces crossing/landing into a region where you previously secured a beachhead/bridgehead (more than 10% military control) can reinforce it without fighting. Irregulars are also considered stealthy enough to cross/land unopposed.

Controlling structures
---------------------
To control of a structure, you must simply be the latest to have occupied it with a combat unit.

Note: You don’t necessarily need to leave a unit garrisoning the structure, although it is good practice to do so. Indians and partisans will only take control of a city if the population in the area is friendly (51% Loyalty or more). They cannot capture depots or forts and will instead destroy them.[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]Extract from the Wiki[/font]

[INDENT]Structure
---------------------
City

Harbor

Depot

Fort

Stockade

Indian village
[/INDENT]

[font="Tahoma"]So, we see that to control an 'Objective City' you need only have occupied it last with a 'combat unit', of which are explicitly excluded Leaders, Support Units, army HQs and I will also exclude Artillery Batteries from experience and from the insinuation in the frontage entry of the Wiki, even thought artillery batteries can do combat without other units; this leaves all regiments (infantry {including militia, and with enough loyalty, partisans, rangers and indians} and cavalry {including early war, if you have enough regional loyalty}) and brigades that could otherwise capture the structure in question.[/font]

[Longshanks]

As Freud is reported to have said: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

In the context of the discussion a "regular unit" is an infantry unit that is not militia.

[moni kerr]

As Freud is reported to have said: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

In the context of the discussion a "regular unit" is an infantry unit that is not militia.

Maybe for the discussion but....

I left a unit in Lexington and thought it was enough to garrison, but I'm not so sure. When looking at it on the lower bar it is one of those off colour militia units that has the militia symbol but in the element section on the right it is a line infantry. It is a militia unit that upgraded but does it still count as a militia for purposes of garrisoning even though it fights like a full line infantry?

[Captain_Orso]

As Freud is reported to have said: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

In the context of the discussion a "regular unit" is an infantry unit that is not militia.

Okay, I will test this out, when I find the time. I know that if you don't have a proper garrison in an Objective City and your loyalty is too low that in the Objectives page of the ledger that the flag next to the city is red with a cross or something similar.

Maybe for the discussion but....

I left a unit in Lexington and thought it was enough to garrison, but I'm not so sure. When looking at it on the lower bar it is one of those off colour militia units that has the militia symbol but in the element section on the right it is a line infantry. It is a militia unit that upgraded but does it still count as a militia for purposes of garrisoning even though it fights like a full line infantry?

Militia units that evolve into either conscript or line infantry still have the same unit icon in the Unit Display or on the map; this includes the NATO icon with the 'm' in it. This can be misleading.

The only thing that actually counts however is what the Unit Detail shows. In the Unit Display, click on the NATO icon of the unit in question and look at the Unit Detail. At the top it will say whether the Unit is militia, conscript or line infantry.

[lodilefty]

Also note that you can control a Region, but not control the structures there.

Tooltip will show the Region Control as % for each faction, and the structure will show the appropriate flag of owning faction.

Militia can only control a structure for VP purposes if Loyatly is 51% or more in your favor.

With newest patches, Control changes slower with a small force in region. It may take 2-3 turns for a Militia Unit too gain significant control [see Norfolk at start of April 61 Campaign. Suffolk Militia captures, but it takes several turns to gain control.]

[Captain_Orso]

I tested this. As you stated Lodi, Militia won't control towns or cities if the loyalty is below 50%; also add light infantry to this list. I marched one of those CSA Volunteer Brigades (2x militia and 1x light inf) into Louisville with (loyalty 75% US, MC US 100%) and could not gain control of the town, even though the region was more than 50% CSA. I sent a brigade with regular (conscript/1st line) in and the town was controlled. When I took them out again leaving the volunteers alone, the control was lost again. Actually entering the town with the regular infantry does not matter; being in the region was enough.

When an Objective town is disputed the flag on the Objectives Ledger page is red with crossed rifles for the side controlling the region, but for the other side it shows the opponents flag; I guess because the region belongs to the other side and that player also doesn't control the town, even if the other doesn't either.

Also, if the region belongs to one side, but the town is not controlled the flag on the town still ganged to the side controlling the region. Bug? It would be good if the 'disputed' flag flew over disputed towns. It would a good indicator for where you are not getting points even if you control the region.

I've yet to test how cavalry plays a role in it, but I suspect that early war cavalry work like militia and late war maybe like regular infantry; but that's just a guess.

[Stauffenberg]

I tested this. As you stated Lodi, Militia won't control towns or cities if the loyalty is below 50%; also add light infantry to this list. I marched one of those CSA Volunteer Brigades (2x militia and 1x light inf) into Louisville with (loyalty 75% US, MC US 100%) and could not gain control of the town, even though the region was more than 50% CSA. I sent a brigade with regular (conscript/1st line) in and the town was controlled. When I took them out again leaving the volunteers alone, the control was lost again. Actually entering the town with the regular infantry does not matter; being in the region was enough.

When an Objective town is disputed the flag on the Objectives Ledger page is red with crossed rifles for the side controlling the region, but for the other side it shows the opponents flag; I guess because the region belongs to the other side and that player also doesn't control the town, even if the other doesn't either.

Also, if the region belongs to one side, but the town is not controlled the flag on the town still ganged to the side controlling the region. Bug? It would be good if the 'disputed' flag flew over disputed towns. It would a good indicator for where you are not getting points even if you control the region.

I've yet to test how cavalry plays a role in it, but I suspect that early war cavalry work like militia and late war maybe like regular infantry; but that's just a guess.

I vote Orso: Micro-Management AACW Guild Navigator Par Excellence. He has to be huffing some spice on this.

(and for those mystified by my comment, it's a Frank Herbert Dune allusion. 'Nuff said.)

[Captain_Orso]

I vote Orso: Micro-Management AACW Guild Navigator Par Excellence. He has to be huffing some spice on this.

(and for those mystified by my comment, it's a Frank Herbert Dune allusion. 'Nuff said.)

[INDENT]He who controls the Spice, controls the universe! [/INDENT]

..flag on the town still ganged to the side controlling the region..

I wonder what mis-typed word that was that the board changed to still gangled to

I think I wanted to write, "the flag on the town [is] still that of the side controlling the region". Forum SW

[INDENT]The spice must flow![/INDENT]

[Captain_Orso]

Okay, here's the low-down. Early war cavalry, as should be know to all, cannot capture a region with less than 50% loyalty with a town. It just stands there and looks silly while the enemy flag on the town waves in defiant opposition and the tool-tip of the region says that the town is besieged.

Militia entering a region with less than 50% loyalty with a town can control the region up to 100%, but as with the early war cavalry, the town folk just thumb their nose and make rude noises

If however you combine the two, you've got a deal. The town becomes controlled ,
and remains controlled as long as early war cavalry are present, even after the militia has left

So you can capture the region with militia, but you need the early war cavalry to capture the town; must have something to do with the sexy uniforms

Late war cavalry is awesome with regards to this, they both capture the region and the town in one fell swoop ompom: , but you still need cavalry or regular (conscript or above) infantry to maintain control over the town apy: or else it will revert to uncontrolled and nobody will receive VPs for it oke:

So, that's the last installment I've planned for this lesson. Good luck and happy trails

[Stauffenberg]

You're got to be a frustrated cartoonist. ouet: oke:


Oh, and a most useful lesson.

[Captain_Orso]

I couldn't draw a conclusion. My efforts look something like this

so I stick to things I have under my control

..eh, yeah

[Gatling]

Hi! I'm new here and I'm learning a lot reading carefully this forum.
For example I just learned that if I ever wonder how to attach some stuff to my post I just have to ask to Captain Orso!

Seriously thanks a lot for the support you are all providing to new players!

Cheers
Gatling

[Longshanks]

Hi! I'm new here and I'm learning a lot reading carefully this forum.
For example I just learned that if I ever wonder how to attach some stuff to my post I just have to ask to Captain Orso!

Seriously thanks a lot for the support you are all providing to new players!

Cheers
Gatling

Welcome to the Forums!