Nato symbol for heavy weapons

[Philippe]

From time to time I've noticed that several infantry units seem to have the Nato symbol for heavy weapons. This looks just like the regular infantry symbol, except that it has a thick vertical bar on the left hand side instead of a thin line.

Is this a graphical glitch, or is it intended to mean something?

[lodilefty]

From time to time I've noticed that several infantry units seem to have the Nato symbol for heavy weapons. This looks just like the regular infantry symbol, except that it has a thick vertical bar on the left hand side instead of a thin line.

Is this a graphical glitch, or is it intended to mean something?

Elite Infantry, late war Infantry, Zouaves, Grenadiers, Highlanders, Black Troops

[squarian]

Elite Infantry, late war Infantry, Zouaves, Grenadiers, Highlanders, Black Troops

In most of the AGE games the heavy bar on the left indicates "heavy" infantry (i.e. elite formations like grenadiers, guards, etc), but it seems that in AACW it also is used for "line infantry" i.e. fully trained infantry as opposed to conscripts (which get the usual NATO infantry symbol). Given that the ACW was fought originally with poorly-trained volunteers, this isn't completely incongruous - by the standards of that war, merely fully-trained troops might be considered "elite".

[Captain_Orso]

The simple NATO infantry icon denotes conscript and normal line infantry



In Sedgewick's division the 79th Pennsylvania is a conscript regiment



and the 78th Pennsylvania are 'normal' line infantry.



The 1st DE 'Crazy Delawares' however have the heavy bar in their icon on the left,



and when you look at their values, they are somewhat better then the 'normal' infantry.

All the above units have never seen any fighting and have no experience. The values of a unit will gain tremendously with experience, even if they are still considered to be conscripts as demonstrated with this regiment



There's no sneaking that that

[ian]

The 1st DE have a weapons range of 4? Rest of the units shown have a range of 3?
Is this the difference between muskets and rifles, or something else? Just curious.

Ian

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

The 1st DE have a weapons range of 4? Rest of the units shown have a range of 3?
Is this the difference between muskets and rifles, or something else? Just curious.

Ian

That's the super line infantry, ie the ones with the black bar on the side. Never noticed that they got an extra range though. Does elite infantry get 4 range?

[Captain_Orso]

Okay, ask and you shall receive. I've culled this information from the following files:

71USAInfantry.mdl
74USAInfantry.mdl
77USAInfantry (conscript).mdl
79USAInfantry (Black Troops).mdl
81USAInfantry (elite).mdl

to be found in ..\AGEod's American Civil War\ACW\GameData\Models\ depending on where your installation directory is.

This is not all the information to be found in these files, but it corresponds to the Unit Detail Display or is obvious in its meaning.

[font="Courier New"]Char. . .Unit Type . Infantry (conscript) . . Line Infantry . . . . . . .Infantry (Black Troops) . . Infantry (Black Bar) . . Infantry (elite)
OffFire . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . .11 . . . . . . . . . . . 13
DefFire . . . . . . .15 . . . . . . . . . . . 16 . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 . . . . . . . . . . . 21
Initiative . . . . . .7 . . . . . . . . . . . .8 . . . . . . . . . . . . .7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Range . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4
ROF . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Protection . . . . . .0 . . . . . . . . . . . .0 . . . . . . . . . . . . .0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .0
Discipline . . . . . .8 . . . . . . . . . . . .9 . . . . . . . . . . . . .9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Assault . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . .9 . . . . . . . . . . . . .9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Ranged Damage */ . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Ranged Damage /* . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . .15 . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Assault Damage */ . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Assault Damage /* . .12 . . . . . . . . . . . 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 . . . . . . . . . . . . .15 . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Cohesion . . . . . . 70 . . . . . . . . . . . 70 . . . . . . . . . . . . 75 . . . . . . . . . . . . .80 . . . . . . . . . . . 85
Hits . . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 . . . . . . . . . . . . .20 . . . . . . . . . . . 20
MenPerHit . . . . . .30 . . . . . . . . . . . 30 . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 . . . . . . . . . . . . .30 . . . . . . . . . . . 30
Move Type . . . . . .Heavy Inf. . . . . . . . Heavy Inf. . . . . . . . . Heavy Inf. . . . . . . . . .Heavy Inf. . . . . . . . Heavy Inf.
Speed Coeff. . . . . 100 . . . . . . . . . . 100 . . . . . . . . . . . .100 . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 . . . . . . . . . . .110
Detect Land . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Detect Sea . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Hide Value . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Weight . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Is a support unit . .No . . . . . . . . . . . No . . . . . . . . . . . . No . . . . . . . . . . . . .No . . . . . . . . . . . No
Police . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Patrol/ . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .5 . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4
/Evasion . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .3
TechUpg . . . . . . .Line Infantry . . . . . .Infantry (Black Bar) . . . Infantry Reg. . . . . . . . (none) . . . . . . . . . (none)
SupplyUsage . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
SupplyStore . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4
AmmoUsage . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
AmmoStore . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .4
ShareSupply . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Ability0 . . . . . . (none) . . . . . . . . . (none) . . . . . . . . . . (none) . . . . . . . . . . .(none) . . . . . . . . . Strong Morale
VPValue . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . .5
MoneyCost . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . .15 . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Conscriptcost . . . .10 . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 . . . . . . . . . . . . .10 . . . . . . . . . . . 10
WarSupplyCost . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .2
BuildRate . . . . . .60 . . . . . . . . . . . 50 . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 . . . . . . . . . . . . .50 . . . . . . . . . . . 50
[/font]

Sorry about the dots between the values; the forum squeezes all multiple spaces down to one space, which messes tables up.

The first thing I realized is that it seams that the only units that are actually 'elite' are those that appear per event with the 'Strong Morale' ability (yellow circle with the grating and + in it).

This would mean that when you are playing the April Campaigns you don't need to buy any elite replacements to get you Eastern Armies up to strength.

Also, conscripts evolve to line infantry, line infantry to 'black bar' infantry, but the line stops there. Nothing can evolve into elite infantry, nor can they evolve into anything else.

Black units seem to evolve into what would be those single US infantry regiments (eg: 1st US, etc.) but I didn't actually find their mdl files, but I didn't really try hard either :neener

So that's it, take if for what it's worth and have funny looking it over

[ian]

Hmm ok so Elite and Black Bar Infantry (units with Nato Hvy Infantry icon) both have a range of 4.
Any ideas why? Assuming that they are equipped with the same weapons is it because they are trained to open fire at a longer range than other infantry?

[Captain_Orso]

I don't remember if I read this here in this forum too, but I know that I've read it in a book about soldiers' experiences called A Time To Kill, which was actually about British soldiers during WWII. What the author said was that it took a lot of courage to fire at the enemy at all, because doing so would draw fire to you.

So it may be that the range difference has to do with the mettle of the soldiers represented or their skill. Maybe the elite formations are simply deemed to be effective at a longer range.

[Stauffenberg]

The Hvy Weapon indicator for elite is good; I would, however, like to have seen all classes of infantry clearly differentiated--colour standard NATO symbols for example: green for conscripts, brown for militia unable to leave its home territory (some are M-marked militia, others are not, some have the lock symbol, some don't--render them all in brown), black for regular line, and Hvy Wpn for elite, or even give them some flash and render elite in orange or somesuch. Just a thought.