Economics - Not adding up

[deguerra]

Perhaps one of the devs/Gray/veterans know what I am missing:

I am trying to get an detailed economic overview. I had hoped the Economics Screen would help me, but when I add up the production numbers per State, I get a total that falls short of the predicted total in the bar at the top of the screen.

At first I thought some sort of modifier was at work, but then I figured out that regions not accessible in the scenario but under CSA control count too. At first this meant that I had to add the not-yet-seceded states, but also it means that French and GB's numbers have to be added.

For Turn 1 of the 1861 w/ Kentucky Scenario the numbers were as follows:



with Expected Total being what I get by adding up all the States' production values, and Actual Total being what the game says I will get next turn.

As you can see, I still fall slightly short. Is there some sort of off-map modifier? Or did I miss someplace?

edit: Sorry just realized my pic cuts off the Column Headers. It's General Supplies, Ammo, Dollars, Conscripts, War Supplies

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

What's your NM modifier?

[deguerra]

Not sure about modifier, but on Turn 1 of 1861 w/ Kentucky scenario (which is where the numbers are from) Confederate NM is 100.

edit: Just saw in game what this affects, good to know. But as it is 100, the co-efficient is 100%, so presumably this isn't the issue. But I will keep that in mind, thanks!

edit2: WRT the Union Bockade. Does this function as a modifier that gets added by the game before presenting the final numbers at the top of the screen, or does it actually affect the production in cities and therefore the totals of states?

[Jim-NC]

What about KY/MO? I don't see them in your spreadsheet. You could get CS from Lexington? KY and from Jefferson City MO. I know KY stays neutral for a while (usually).

[deguerra]

that's almost certainly it! Sigh, I really ought to have thought of that myself, really. Will check when I get home. Thanks!

Does anyone have any idea about the effect of blockades? Does it affect total production? Or individual regions?

[GraniteStater]

The BlockBoxes pertain to Southern 'national production', I believe, i. e., total. Also, whatever figure is shown is double the impact (from another thread/poster somewhere) - so, 50% shown on the BBs is reducing the 'national Southern war effort" (not conscripts) by one quarter.

The Union can amplify this blockade at particular ports by a 'brown-water' blockade of the same - the BrownBlock reduces that city's 'efficiency' by one-half, no more, no less.

I could be mistaken in the first paragraph's assesment of the percentage, but believe I have it right. If so, this means that a 90% BlockBox figure (about the max possible) coupled with a Blockade of Port A would reduce Port A's 'output' to: 0.45(0.50 A) = 0.2 A, or 20% of full output, if one is persnickety and rounds error correctly, which the code may or may not do.

[Jim-NC]

Ah, but to get that 90%, you must brown water blockade (or capture) ports. There is a list of ports that add to your blockade % (IIRC Richmind, Norfolk, Wilmington, Galveston, etc). It was posted a while back. I don't have the entire list memorized. So to get the most from your blockade, you have to both blue and brown water blockade.

[GraniteStater]

Ah, but to get that 90%, you must brown water blockade (or capture) ports. There is a list of ports that add to your blockade % (IIRC Richmind, Norfolk, Wilmington, Galveston, etc). It was posted a while back. I don't have the entire list memorized. So to get the most from your blockade, you have to both blue and brown water blockade.

I agree with your last statement, but I haven't been doing any brown blockades at all for quite a few games now (no real reason, just not) and I've seen 90% in the BlockBox - by late '63 or '64. That's if you build Blockade Flotillas and shove them into the Gulf and Altlantic boxes.

I haven't blockaded any ports for awhile now, just running fleets offshore in a (mostly vain) attempt to catch Runners.

Upon a re-read, I do usually capture New Orleans by early to mid '62 and if it's a '62 start, Charleston, also. I also usually try to follow up N. O. with an operation towards Mobile.

[Cromagnonman]

Interesting that you get conscripts from Canada right off the bat.

[Ol' Choctaw]

I agree with your last statement, but I haven't been doing any brown blockades at all for quite a few games now (no real reason, just not) and I've seen 90% in the BlockBox - by late '63 or '64. That's if you build Blockade Flotillas and shove them into the Gulf and Altlantic boxes.

I haven't blockaded any ports for awhile now, just running fleets offshore in a (mostly vain) attempt to catch Runners.

Upon a re-read, I do usually capture New Orleans by early to mid '62 and if it's a '62 start, Charleston, also. I also usually try to follow up N. O. with an operation towards Mobile.

I would assume that the brown water ports are also the strategic objective cities with ports.

I have not tried to run too many brown water blockades though.

I have had more than 100% blockades though. Up to 100% you get a number figure. When you exceed requirements there are no numbers at all.

[Fingolfin]

Interesting that you get conscripts from Canada right off the bat.

"Well, that's nothing but a new occasion to kick some american arse, eh ?"

[GraniteStater]

I would assume that the brown water ports are also the strategic objective cities with ports.

I have not tried to run too many brown water blockades though.

I have had more than 100% blockades though. Up to 100% you get a number figure. When you exceed requirements there are no numbers at all.

Brown water means a 'next-to' blockade, where you need a certain number of naval Elements to effect the blockade at that particular point. TPs don't count for this, 'tho you'll need them to stay on station.

Any coastal port can be blockaded - so can riverine ports, by a river naval force - yes, you can blockade Memphis and Nashville, etc. Forts on rivers or on the coast are subject to blockade, also.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Cromagnonman]

"Well, that's nothing but a new occasion to kick some american arse, eh ?"

I hadn't realized that the Confederates had as many Canadians in their ranks as North Carolinians and Georgians combined. Or any other 2 states, save Virginia.

Does brown water blockade affect CS?

[Fingolfin]

I hadn't realized that the Confederates had as many Canadians in their ranks as North Carolinians and Georgians combined. Or any other 2 states, save Virginia.

Well, if I were a Yank, i'd better fight 100 Georgians than a single freaking Cajun

[GraniteStater]

Inaccurate. Though any point can be blockaded in game. The term Brown water in an AGEod game is actually used to define those harbors that have an addt'l effect on blockading efforts. They are specifically defined in the various campaign scenario setup files.

For the main 1861 scenarios they are:

$Warwick, VA|1|$Norfolk, VA|5|$Currituck, VA|1|$Tyrell, NC|1|$Hyde, NC|1|$Beaufort, NC|3|$Carteret, NC|3|$New Hanover, NC|5|$Charleston, SC|8|$Hardee, SC|1|$Beaufort, SC|1|$Ebert, GA|1|$Chatham, GA|6|$Carroll, GA|1|$Pullman, GA|1|$Wayne, GA|1|$Leon, FL|1|$Wakula, FL|1|$Duval, FL|1|$Saint John's, FL|1|$Volusia, FL|1|$Tampa, FL|1|$Hale, FL|3|$Milton, FL|1|$Gulf, MS|1|$Springfield, LA|1|$Iberville, LA|16|$St Joseph, LA|1|$Alexandria, LA|1|$Pierre, LA|1|$Berwick, LA|1|$Matagorda, TX|3

Oh, thank you very much! IOW, you gain little or nothing from blockading points not on the list.

And the corresponding numbers show that blockading Charleston, for example, is more worthwhile than Beaufort, for instance, I would infer.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Inaccurate. Though any point can be blockaded in game. The term Brown water in an AGEod game is actually used to define those harbors that have an addt'l effect on blockading efforts. They are specifically defined in the various campaign scenario setup files.

For the main 1861 scenarios they are:

$Warwick, VA|1|$Norfolk, VA|5|$Currituck, VA|1|$Tyrell, NC|1|$Hyde, NC|1|$Beaufort, NC|3|$Carteret, NC|3|$New Hanover, NC|5|$Charleston, SC|8|$Hardee, SC|1|$Beaufort, SC|1|$Ebert, GA|1|$Chatham, GA|6|$Carroll, GA|1|$Pullman, GA|1|$Wayne, GA|1|$Leon, FL|1|$Wakula, FL|1|$Duval, FL|1|$Saint John's, FL|1|$Volusia, FL|1|$Tampa, FL|1|$Hale, FL|3|$Milton, FL|1|$Gulf, MS|1|$Springfield, LA|1|$Iberville, LA|16|$St Joseph, LA|1|$Alexandria, LA|1|$Pierre, LA|1|$Berwick, LA|1|$Matagorda, TX|3

Wait, Richmond isn't on the list?

[deguerra]

Thanks for the answers re the Blockade, and for the further elaborations on the blockade. There is so much to learn about this game.

Have added numbers for KY and MO areas controlled by the CSA, and it pretty much works out. Money, Conscripts and WS all add up, there is a bit of a discrepancy remaining re Supplies and Ammo, but its tiny and probably because I missed something somewhere. But it hardly matters.

I suppose you can justify the various additions from foreign soil as foreign aid and foreign volunteers. It is a shame that there isn't at least one additional economics screen that gives you more of a breakdown, but that can wait til AACW2.

[Cromagnonman]

It probably has more to do with a coding oversight, such that those items should not be available unless/until FI is triggered. After all, if there's a blockade, how are foreign recruits reaching the South? And where are the Union's immigrant soldiers?

[deguerra]

Oh yes, I agree. I assume its perhaps a game engine limitation such that if the CSA is ever to control those areas (even if only as proxy for the FI powers) it has to be given their production. Alternatively a coding error. Really, I suppose, areas outside the US don't have to have any production at all, so long as the FI armies get decent supply stockpiles.

My point was merely a justification, although I agree its one that kind of flies in the face of the whole blockade thing.

[Cromagnonman]

Stragely enough, when I invaded England, the forces consisted mostly of an English division (~10 elements) and a 5-element force of Arkansans under Stand Watie. I thought that there were originally a lot more Britons than this, but they never showed up anywhere else that I could divine. 90 supplies might simply not have been enough. Also not sure how those Arkansans ended up available for burial in England's green and pleasant land.

[Jim-NC]

I believe that the union capturing a port is the same as brown water blockading. That would allow you to reach 90% blockade by capturing the important ports (see Gray's list). Hence, in the later stages of the game, the union blockade % increases as it captures more CSA ports (as long as they are ports on the list).