Brown Water Blockade Constantly Bombarded

[elxaime]

Two questions for Union blockade experts:

- I have a Union naval brown water blockades of a number of CSA ports. These are ports whose protective forts I have already captured

- every turn it seems, the CSA forces garrisoning the population centers bombard the Union blockade naval units. They typically are getting 40-50 hits and taking no losses in return

- the USA naval units are set on defense and are not set to bombard; they are stationary, not moving

- these are not CSA forts - these are just garrison units, presumably with some artillery, perhaps coastal guns

Does this have something to do with the water level or type of water the blockaders occupy? Some of the CSA major ports require you to put blockaders in estuary and adjoining rivers. Is this something coastal guns can do? I had thought you needed to move past them to get bombarded.

From this I gather that, for example, if you take the fort outside Savannah and then blockade the port city itself, even then you are in a losing situation. Every turn your blockading fleet gets bombarded and you do little to no damage in return.

Thoughts? What am I doing wrong here? I can't imagine brown water blockading would be this much attrition after you had taken the CSA covering forts.

[DarthMath]

Hi,

A strong garrison with artillery inside the city in "bombarding" mode can achieve the results you describe. Nothing to do as USA except avoiding brown water blockade of those cities in particular, or strenghten your naval forces for returning fire more effectively.
To take the forts guarding the cities only allows you to blockade ports with fewer naval units, and to not take damages when you remove your fleet for repairs.

Hope this helps.

[blackbird]

Here is a word of warning, in a short PBEM game for learning purposes with another new player, he(USA) brown water blockaded Richmond which yielded results like those that you mention. His fleet took a good deal of damage, and to make things worse(or better depending on your point of view!), his blockade and the subsequent artillery duel unlocked the sizable locked force in Richmond including the two high ranking generals, Lee and Cooper. I could not care much less about Cooper(plus, he disappeared in a turn or maybe two), but Lee rocks and will bring the pain of a bunch of headaches for the USA when let loose early.

[elxaime]

Thanks - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Sounds like you really cannot Brown Water blockade the bigger garrisoned cities unless you bring a huge fleet and are prepared for big losses each turn.

Seems a big strange though, since it really removes the purpose of taking the outer forts. You cannot blockade the city itself without an artillery duel with the shore guns each turn? I would assume the ships can lay off outside the range of the guns and blockade, which is what they did in real life. I doubt the shore guns reach so far out into estuaries in particular.

It is particularly strange with a place like Savannah. Historically, the Union took Fort Pulaski and the historical accounts say this "closed" the port. Apparently not. You have to also blockade the estuary of the city itself. Fair enough. But once you do so the Savannah garrison starts pounding your blockade fleet into splinters. I realize there are counters like bringing the whole US Navy to engage in a more or less permanent shore duel. But why bother? The cost-benefit analysis is lopsided to the point of absurdity by then.

[W.Barksdale]

Ouch..if this is correct as it is written here they killed the bw blockade. I wonder whos idea this was .. Are you playing with any mods? Also are you sure your ships are not set to bombard??

[blackbird]

Does this have something to do with the water level or type of water the blockaders occupy? Some of the CSA major ports require you to put blockaders in estuary and adjoining rivers. Is this something coastal guns can do? I had thought you needed to move past them to get bombarded.

One thing that confuses me a little is this 'double adjacency' thing. I've read a bunch of posts and thought, as you do, that the ships would have to go past the guns too, going through two adjacent naval regions in order to trigger the shore guns. But, I am still new and learning something new about this complex(and great) game every day, so who knows? In any event, I don't see how the ships could go through two zones adjacent to Richmond since I don't believe that there are 2, only one. Maybe it is different for guns in a fort? Maybe they fire with any adjacent enemy ships?

Ouch..if this is correct as it is written here they killed the bw blockade. I wonder whos idea this was .. Are you playing with any mods?

Not in my case. I am playing v1.07 straight from cd-rom, no mods, patched up to v1.15.

Also are you sure your ships are not set to bombard??

I'm sorry, but I can't answer that since I was the bombardee and not the bombardier.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[elxaime]

...the bombardment itself is perfectly legitimate and at the control of the player who owns the land units. He has the choice to bombard or NOT to bombard adjacent naval units.

Just to confirm, we are playing with 1.15, no mods. And this involves USA blockade ships that are not running the guns, nor are they set to bombard themselves - they are just sitting there performing the blockade function.

The usual result is 50 or so hits on the Union ships and 0 or just a few hits on the CSA. These are CSA units that are not even in a fort (although I assume they are well-entrenched).

The historical blockade of CSA major ports after their covering forts have been stormed is simply not possible when the game requires the Union blockade fleets to operate within range of land-based guns in order to be effective.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Pocus]

Just to confirm, we are playing with 1.15, no mods. And this involves USA blockade ships that are not running the guns, nor are they set to bombard themselves - they are just sitting there performing the blockade function.

The usual result is 50 or so hits on the Union ships and 0 or just a few hits on the CSA. These are CSA units that are not even in a fort (although I assume they are well-entrenched).

The historical blockade of CSA major ports after their covering forts have been stormed is simply not possible when the game requires the Union blockade fleets to operate within range of land-based guns in order to be effective.

you can only be bombarded if you move, if they are sitting in a region, they can't be bombarded turn after turn.
As for the differential in damages, this is an endless debate, whatever you do, you'll find cases where you think fleets deal too much damages, and cases where you'll find land based batteries doing too much damages too.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[elxaime]

...something that was not done to great effect historically but COULD have been done under the correct circumstances.

OK, thanks. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I can think of some counters to this already.