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Pocus
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Feature #28 : Industrialization

Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:55 pm

Industrialization

Although AGEod's American Civil War is not a civilization-like game, we felt it necessary to give some tools to the players so that they could experience some of the problems that faced Davis and Lincoln, relative to sustaining the war effort. The challenge was far more daunting for the Confederates, who started the war with less than 10% of the industrial potential of the North. The industrial output of the South in war materials amounted to nearly nothing in the summer 1861, with the Tredegar Ironworks (the most famous foundry in the South) unable to mount even a single gun at the start of the war. Still, four years later, their total production was above 1000 rifle guns (out of 2200-2500 actually produced in the South). Other famous accounts include stories of how the Southerners managed to grab every piece of metal available to be melted in rifles and gun (from bells and such), or how they managed to produce enough black power for their armies from basically nothing to start with.

In AACW you act at the State level to industrialize your country. Each state where you own at least a strategic city can have its output improved in supply, ammunition and war supplies (heavy materials). You just have to request the desired level of industrialization and as time passes you will get new factories, magazines and ironworks (simulated through the increased production of these 3 assets) in some chosen regions of the state. It is generally better to develop continuously, even at a slow pace, the industry in a given State but the North can afford to spend much more in this area and can engage in a heavy and fast industrialization process if this is the priority of the player (but the return on investement will be lower, for the same level of spending, compared to a slower pace).

Also to be considered is how fit is the choosen State for industrialization. Some were very biased towards agriculture with poor possibilities of sudden industrial expansion and this is also taken into account. As you can guess, some Union States have a very good potential and, on the other side, some Confederate States (Texas, Florida etc) won't give a good return on investment even with large investments (not that the CSA has the resources to spend anyway!).

The South won't be able to keep pace with the North here but significant progress can still be made during the war, and this will be needed as losses can be extremely costly to replace. You will have many guns or butter choices presented to you, between developping your industry, equiping your conscripts, replacing your rolling stock, forging new guns and mortars or perhaps even constructing some ironclads?

And let's not forget one of the wild cards of the South: Blockade Runners and Commerce Raiders... more later!

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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Le Ricain
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:14 pm

Nice work.

I am also pleased to see that flag on the riverine icon is blowing in the same direction as the smoke from the smokestack.

Also interesting is the fact that it appears in the actual game being portrayed, Tennessee has remained in the Union.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'

Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Pocus
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:36 pm

Note that Tennesse can be contested with both side allowed to invest money in the cities they own.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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WallysWorld
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:04 pm

I have to comment that I like the little things added graphically to the game screens like the fountain pen pictured in the above screenshot. Eye candy like this really gives the game a nice 19th century atmosphere.

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Sol Invictus
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:04 pm

More good meaty gameplay options. I love it!
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Florent
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:38 pm

Always more and more interesting. Are the upgrade levels annual, every 6 months, or at will ?

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Le Ricain
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Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:02 pm

Pocus wrote:Note that Tennesse can be contested with both side allowed to invest money in the cities they own.


This is a really nice feature as Tennessee raised 90 RGT's for the Confederacy and 50 RGT's for the Union.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Pocus
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:49 am

yes, we took that into account and both can enlist at the same time TN, MO or KY soldiers if they both control at least a city.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Le Ricain
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:30 pm

Pocus wrote:yes, we took that into account and both can enlist at the same time TN, MO or KY soldiers if they both control at least a city.


Does the same feature work for Confederate states where the Union controls at least one city? I am referring to my earlier post on Union recruitment of pro-union Southerners. ARK and LA each supplied 10 regiments for the Union cause.

On the Confederate side, the Union state of Maryland supplied more regiments to the Southern cause than did the Confederate state of Florida. This was without the South controlling any MD cities. Presumably in AACW, if the South were to gain control of a MD city, they should be able to recruit troops.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Pocus
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:02 pm

We have reached the user interface limit for regular regiments, at least for the Union side (40). But we can add some for the CSA, and there is also room for more Militia regiments without problems. Provide us with some figures please :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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James D Burns
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Pocus wrote:We have reached the user interface limit for regular regiments, at least for the Union side (40). But we can add some for the CSA, and there is also room for more Militia regiments without problems. Provide us with some figures please :)


Careful, if there is an upper cap to regiments that can be raised, then you need to figure out historical ratios between north and south and apply those.

So if the union historically raised 4 times as many MD regiments as the south did (this is just a random ratio I made up for use in this discussion), then the south should only be allowed to raise 25% of the union cap (or 10 regiments if the cap is 40) total even if they mustered far more than that.

I personally hate the idea of caps to the number of regiments allowed, but understand it is probably a necessary evil. I’d far prefer to see all the historical units available, no matter how obscure the unit might be in history books.

Jim

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Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:48 pm

Wait does that mean you can't have more than 40 rgts in existence ? Or that you can't raise more than 40 rgts per troop raising phase ? I don't really understand what you just said...

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Pocus
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:16 pm

You are both mistaken, it must be my feeble frenglish which is doing you that trick ;)

I'm speaking of the number of units types. The interface can handle 40 units types for each troop category. Categories are regular infantry, irregular, militia, artillery, ships, cavalry. The problem only exists for the regular infantry, where you have a combination of brigade kind and state of origin. For example in VA, the CSA can recruit 3 differing kind of brigades. Multiply that by the number of state (although some are only allowed to recruit a single type, Florida eg) and you can reach the 40 limit.

Force pool number is a different thing. You can recruit perhaps a total of 36 brigades in VA for the CSA (of the 3 types). Add other units too like cavalry and such.

As for the Union, you have a Force Pool limit so that you don't do very odd things (like recruiting only independent Zouaves regiments with 300 independents sharpshooters companies, all coming from Delaware), but thats totally impossible to deplete all the force pool of all your states, the limitation lying first on your conscript pool, and second on how you will be able to sustain the war effort (supply expense).
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:47 pm

I like the amount of thought going into the game, keep it up! And Merry Christmas to all of you as well.

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Le Ricain
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:43 pm

Pocus wrote:We have reached the user interface limit for regular regiments, at least for the Union side (40). But we can add some for the CSA, and there is also room for more Militia regiments without problems. Provide us with some figures please :)


Pocus,

If I understand you correctly, you are asking for Maryland CSA Regiments. If so, I am then unsure what information on these units you need.

1st MD Inf, CSA
June 61 - Aug 62
Raised at Winchester, VA.
Size: 8 companies

2nd MD Inf, CSA
Raised at Ricmond
Oct 62 - Apr 65
Size: 5 cos (Oct 62); 8 cos (Jan 63)

1st MD Cav, CSA
May 62 - Apr 65

2nd MD Cav, CSA
(Gilmor's Partisan Rangers)
March 61 - Feb 65

1st MD Art (Maryland)
Raised Richmond
July 61 - Apr 65
Size: 4 Napoleons 4 Parrots

2nd MD Art (Baltimore Light Art)
Raised Richmond
Autumn 61 - Apr 65
Size: ?

3rd MD Art (Ritter Battery)
Raised Richmond
Autumn 61 - May 65
Size: 2 x 6lb Smooth bores; 2 x 12lb howitzers; 2 x 3" Rifled

4th MD Art (Chesapeake)
Raised Richmond
Winter 62 - Apr 65
Size: 4 x 'inferior' guns + 4 x Parrots (Aug 62)

In November 1863, a new unit was formed. The 'Maryland Line' under the command of Brg Gen Bradley Johnson contained the 2nd MD RGT, 1st MD Cav, 1st, 2nd and 4th MD Art. The 2nd Cav was ordered to join the Maryland Line, but being a partisan unit, it never never got around to actually joining the Line.
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Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Florent
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:17 pm

Merry Christmas to all of you !! Read you soon !!

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Pocus
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:40 am

Interesting infos must I say. We have set the building of units by brigades to simplify things, with various brigades templates, so except for some units like zouaves, sharpshooters, cavalry etc. you don't recruit a unit being made of only one element, but you recruit a brigade already organized with 1-4 infantry regiments, cavalry and artillery (these 2 types being optionnal, it depends of the actual brigade type);

So the basic info needed would be how much do you think MD could have potentially fielded as brigade-equivalent for the Confederate, at a given time. The 'extended' infos, that you provided too, are historical names for brigades and regiments, so that each unit and element (a unit is made of elements) can have historical names if available.

If the numbers are too small, we add them by events though.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Pocus
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:41 am

Thanks for your wishes, we will formally reply sunday with a special "feature" ;)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

jelay14
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:51 am

Oh boy. Sunday, you say? Maybe it will be a feature on how Christmas works in the game. :innocent:

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Le Ricain
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:45 pm

[quote="Pocus"]Interesting infos must I say. We have set the building of units by brigades to simplify things, with various brigades templates, so except for some units like zouaves, sharpshooters, cavalry etc. you don't recruit a unit being made of only one element, but you recruit a brigade already organized with 1-4 infantry regiments, cavalry and artillery (these 2 types being optionnal, it depends of the actual brigade type)]

I believe I understand.

Maryland, like many Southern states, was divided in its support for or against the union. Western MD was pro-union and eastern MD was pro-confederate. Although the CSA never controlled any of the eastern MD cities, MD still provided 25,000 men to the CSA. Of these 5,000 served in MD RGT's, while the rest served with other states' units. The MD units were raised early in the war before the North was able to seal the border. It would be a nice touch if these units were in AACW to be used to build VA brigade-equivalents.

In November 1863, the CSA formed a AACW MD brigade-equivalent, 'the Maryland Line', containing 1RGT, 3 ART and 1 CAV. In AACW, if this could be done by event or by player's choice is up to you.

By contrast, the Union which did control all of MD's cities was able to raise 60,000 troops during the war. Excluding militia and home guard, they raised 16 INF, 7 ART and 4 CAV units in MD.

The potential that MD could have provided to the CSA is an interesting question. Eastern MD (pro-south) was much more populated than western MD (pro-union). MD was prevented from leaving the union by direct federal intervention. Looking at the 1860 census (in millions) for the future Confederate states plus MD gives:

State Total White Black

VA 1.6 1.1 0.5
TENN 1.1 0.8 0.3
GA 1.1 0.6 0.5
NC 1.0 0.7 0.3
ALA 1.0 0.6 0.4
MISS 0.8 0.4 0.4
LA 0.7 0.4 0.3
TEX 0.6 0.4 0.2
ARK 0.4 0.3 0.1
FLA 0.14 0.08 0.06

MD 0.7 0.5 0.2

As can be seen, available white population places MD somewhere around MISS, ALA and GA levels. Additionally, ALA and GA had divided loyalty populations similar to MD. These states gave the CSA 112 (56 inf, 26 art, 30 cav), 97 (65 inf, 18, art, 14 cav) and 114 (67 inf, 28 art, 19 cav) regiments respectively. Controlling eastern MD is going to give the CSA a tremendous boost. Recruitment in these cities should be similar to those in the other three states.

I hope that this helps. Please note that I did a quick count of the number of ALA, MISS and GA regiments so I am sure that my numbers are not precise, but do indicate a range.

Pocus, in case I do not speak to you later, I hope that you and the rest of the AGEOD team (and their families) have a merry Christmas.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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