Europeans fascination with the American Civil War

[Bo Rearguard]

- does anyone rember an excelent TV series about the subject which i beleive was one of the first to extensivley use private diaries etc?

You might be thinking of the Ken Burns documentary film-The Civil War-it was something of a revelation even to Americans.

I think another literary aspect to the ACW is the fact that it probably is the closest example of a war we have between two representative democracies. Therefore, both sides were blessed--or cursed depending on your point of view--with a free press. A press which more often reviled and decried their political leadership in their many wartime editorials than cheer-leaded for them. Some the articles and journals of that era are fascinating documents in their own right.

[Jarkko]

To me, ACW is important for three reasons:

1) It is one of the four campaigns during the past 200 years have formed the world to what is today (the others being Napoleonic wars, WW1 and WW2).

2) It is the first modern modern war (minus air-power really)

3) It is, after all, about freedom and the the conflicting points of view about freedom (freedom of every man vs freedom of states)

[Spruce]

As a European (Belgium) I like to add =

- as a child, we loved the comic books about the ACW (see other posters),

- as a young adult, I got interested in the cause behind the conflict - state rights against federal legislation - slavery issue - internal differences and political games of balance prior to the ACW. Being from Belgium I'm particularly interested in that - many US citizens won't understand, anyhow,

- as a more mature adult I got interested in the people (general or politician) in the conflict. Let's confess many ACW generals became icons of their time - being perceived differently from both sides. And yet again, some generals got respected by both sides - strange

- resulting in my general understanding that this often was a conflict between brothers,

[aryaman]

As a wargamer I find it interesting because of the long campaigns, the great strategy movements and the Total War character. However, I miss the importance of cavalry, like in Napoleonic Wars.

[Carnium]

Interesting debate as I have too always wondered why we, Europeans who were never short of our own wars, are so interested in ACW.

Possible common reasons :
- no nation like the US can make such a show about a war.All these colorful uniforms and reenactors MUST catch your eye even if you have no idea nor big interest about this period
- there are tons of movies,games,books,documentaries and series about ACW and since we live in modern times all these are available to us too (as long as we have credit cards)
- since this is a distant war we can build our own (independent?) opinion about it as we were not involved.
- if you are interested in wars and strategy then you sooner or later stumble upon this first "modern" war and you either love it or hate it.Usually we prefer the first choice.

My personal reasons:
- one of my first turn based war games was Johnny Reb 2 for C=64 and was amazed by North and South on PC
- loved TV series North&South (but hated the book)
- enjoyed Gettysburg and Gods and Generals
- since my childhood I like to combine games with books, movies and documentaries.Usually I see a good movie or play a game about/set in a period and I tend to get interested in it.Then I look after books and documentaries about it.
- gotta love blue&grey

[77NY]

- no nation like the US can make such a show about a war.

Have you seen Ken Burns's documentary series "The Civil War"? (If not, you should) In it, there are some commentaries that echo your point exactly: the U.S. sees itself as the best country ever and therefore its Civil War must be the best Civil War ever!

Just wondering: Of European ACW enthusiasts, have any of you seen the Ken Burns documentary series?

[Carnium]

Have you seen Ken Burns's documentary series "The Civil War"? (If not, you should) In it, there are some commentaries that echo your point exactly: the U.S. sees itself as the best country ever and therefore its Civil War must be the best Civil War ever!

Just wondering: Of European ACW enthusiasts, have any of you seen the Ken Burns documentary series?

Yes
I have his The American Civil War book and documentary and The West series.
Gotta love eBay

[Bruit Bleu]

Just wondering: Of European ACW enthusiasts, have any of you seen the Ken Burns documentary series?

Soon !
In France (and Germany), the TV channel Arte will begin its diffusion the 1st march (see this topic) !

[77NY]

Beaucoup plus intéressant, le documentaire de Ken Burns qui suivra (Il me semble qu'il était déjà passé il y a bien longtemps sur la TV suisse ?). A vos magnétoscopes!

I hope that it will air with subtitles and not dubbed. Hearing the different American dialects spoken is part of the fun.

The final episode of the series ends with an absolutely astonishing segment that gets me every time I see it. Enjoy!

[Barker]

For truly a feel for the old girl, you need to read the original confederate veteren magazine. These are a great source of a southern view point. From life in prison to the swamps of carolina. first hand accounts byt the people who actually was there. Here in the US you can read the material in the public library. You read on about the 1919 reunion at nashville, the 1931 reunion of shiloh. you see pictures of men with great long white beards hunkering over a cane wearing a Kepi, holding the flag. You see a perspective that modern histiry book fail to print. This is the eyes of the ACW. The interviews are not one sided as one may see it. There is interviews with sherman, forrest, wheeler (who fought for the US in the spanish american war) You read tidbits from one article of one year them 2 years later in another issue another soldiers tidbits of the same event and so on. You then see a contectual picture of the event.

[Comtedemeighan]

Yes
I have his The American Civil War book and documentary and The West series.
Gotta love eBay

Not to get off topic here but Carnium is Ken Burn's 'The West' any good? I never saw it. What year does it go up to?

[Carnium]

Not to get off topic here but Carnium is Ken Burn's 'The West' any good? I never saw it. What year does it go up to?

I got this in a package with The Civil War on eBay and only had time to see the last one.The West covers the period till 1914 and only holds Burns name as it was actually done by Stephen Ives.
Episode guide is here.

[Mangudai]

I really appreciate the posts on this thread especially from Europeans.

[Franciscus]

As an european, let me also participate in this thread.
No single reason is sufficient to explain my fascination for the ACW. Yet, one factor distinguishes me from most europeans - I am also an american citizen . In reality, I was born in Norfolk, Virginia, because my father was stationed there, in Portsmouth NATO North Atlantic headquarters. Alas, I have not yet returned to the Old Dominion .
Nevertheless, I am and feel European, of course. But since I was young I was interested about my "other" country, and read some books about US history that my father brought with him.
Playing with small plastic soldiers also played a part, of course .
Then, during my adolescence, I bought the wonderful TimeLife collection of books about AACW, and got hooked - the first volume in my hand was Gettysburg . Picket's charge, Lo Armistead, hat in sword's point leading his brave Virginian soldiers to certain death, captured forever my heart and imagination.
Of course, one of the factors that most endears me about ACW is the characters. Lee, Grant, Jackson, Lincoln,... It is hard to find such magnificent characters together (of course I know much of it is a fruit of the american way to embelish things, but so be it).

Regards

[TiFlo]

Pretty interesting discussion indeed!

As several other francophones already mentioned here (I'm French, notwithstanding where I live now), the Les Tuniques Bleues comic is probably the most significant reason I came in touch with the American Civil War. It has been for a long time (since I was 8ish I believe), and still is now. But as time drags on, I read it with a different eye, paying more attention to the commanders, the uniforms, and the locations. Only to find out that the more that comic matures, the more historicity is brought in

Also, as I grew up and had to get into university, my interests in history drifted to North America. So it feels quite natural to switch back and forth between my field of research and other events taking place roughly in the same area, no matter the era.

And it probably is all in all refreshing, as it is different from the Crimean War, the War of 1870, or any other military event of that time in Europe. Exoticism I guess

[Gresbeck]

When I was 6 years old (I'm Italian) I Knew about three wars: ww 1 (the war of our grandfathers); ww2 (the war of our fathers); ACW (the war of "The good, the bad and the ugly" and of my toy soldiers). The first time I heard about the 3d Italian independence war (1866) I remember my mother saying "this war took place in the same time as the American Civil War".

[TiFlo]

ACW (the war of "The good, the bad and the ugly" and of my toy soldiers)

Excellent! And it couldn't be more right too!

[Comtedemeighan]

I got this in a package with The Civil War on eBay and only had time to see the last one.The West covers the period till 1914 and only holds Burns name as it was actually done by Stephen Ives.
Episode guide is here.

Thanks man I appreciate it

[nervouspete]

Have you seen Ken Burns's documentary series "The Civil War"? (If not, you should) In it, there are some commentaries that echo your point exactly: the U.S. sees itself as the best country ever and therefore its Civil War must be the best Civil War ever!

Just wondering: Of European ACW enthusiasts, have any of you seen the Ken Burns documentary series?

I'm six of ten episodes through it, and I find it pretty incredible. You can tell the stunning volume of research purely by the sources list in the credits! The only problem with it I can find is that it's almost terrifying me out of playing a full campaign of ACW. So many battles, so much to think about, the mind boggles!

Also, that Shelby Foote has an amazing voice, I could listen to him wax forth all day.

[77NY]

Also, that Shelby Foote has an amazing voice, I could listen to him wax forth all day.

Apparently he was a real character. Here is his obituary from the Washington Post.

[benway9]

I recently finished Foote's 3 volume Civil War history. very good stuff. while reading it i couldnt help but hear it through his voice, telling the story. some of the stories in the books i can remember him telling in Burns' Civil War.

i highly recommend these books to anyone who's interested in the ACW.

[Brochgale]

Above and beyond my general interest in the history of warfare, I am a highland Scot.

For me the fascination with the American Civil War began with a programme that appeared on TV here several years ago about Scots in the American Civil War. There was also a related programme around the same time on the involvement of Gaelic speaking Scots and about How Antietam and Gettysburg might have been more of a blow to the Gaelic langauge than even the Highland clearances.
I also had other perhaps not related interests in what I have heard you Americans call old timer music. I also rather enjoy tapping my feet to Cajun music. It was a curious mix of things coming together that sparked my interest in not just Civil War but America at that time?
So I started to read more and by the time I read about Nathan Bedford Forest and found out that Stonewall himself had even been to Scotland just a few years before the war - well I was truly hooked. It also helps that it is perhaps the most documented war to that date and the most argued about war ever? A debatable point perhaps.

[Rafiki]

It also helps that it is perhaps the most documented war to that date and the most argued about war ever? A debatable point perhaps.

Well, you know, there's that thingy with the two moustache guys and the ships and the planes and the tanks and the atomic bombs and the whatnot...

[SIZE="1"](I see what you mean; just couldn't resist pulling your leg a bit )[/size]

[Brochgale]

Well, you know, there's that thingy with the two moustache guys and the ships and the planes and the tanks and the atomic bombs and the whatnot...

[SIZE="1"](I see what you mean; just couldn't resist pulling your leg a bit )[/size]

I know what you mean but the two World Wars are of less interest to me in comparison to ACW, In relation to WW2 I am more of a Naval junkie.