Need help with choice of games

[blwizard]

Hi guys, this is my first post here. I'm a Paradox fan, been playing Europa Universalis 3 and Hearts of Iron 2 and really like them! I ran into this game on gamespot, then I came here and read a bit about it. It looks good, so think I might give it a try, but I also saw Birth of America: Wars in America, and it's release more recently. Which is better? I think I'll just buy one for now, so can you guys give me some opinions? Thanks .

[Clovis]

Try Wars in America. i personnaly prefer AACW but WIA is simpler to learn the game and has almost as much of strategical depth than AACW.

[berto]

Agreed. Try WIA. It's easiest to get into and feels more polished. After playing AACW for nearly a year, I recently purchased WIA, and I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying it.

[arsan]

Hi!

Of course, it also depends of what era interest you more: French&Indian wars/Revolution/1812 war (covered by Wars in America) or the Civil War (covered on America Civil War).

Both are excellent games and have a similar level of development, as "older" games like ACW are kept up to date and retrofitted with much of the new additions to the AGEOD engine.
As Berto and Clovis advise, the main difference between ACW and WIA is the level of complexity. WIA is intermediate, and ACW is high (not awfully high, but pretty high :neener
But as a player of complex games like Paradox, you won't have many problems learning them. Just remember this ones has turns

On ACW you have a degree of control on politics, economics, unit creation and a much higher number of forces to manage, with advanced rules for Army/Corps /Divisions creation.
That can make ACW a quite complex and big game to learn and play

WIA represents an older conflict, with less developed armies, no railroads and a more basic supply system. Units count is lower and the game play is less micromanagement demanding. But it does not mean its simplistic.
It just represents a different kind or era and a different kind of wars greatly.

Both are great games, with different personalities.
If you like complex and big games, try ACW.
If you prefer an introduction to the AGEOD system, and an engrossing game on its own, WIA is the perfect game.

Both game have demos. You can find them there
WIA: http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=218
AACW: http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115

Oh, and if you like the Napoleonic age, don't forget the third great AGEOD game, Campaigns of Napoleon (in complexity i would say its intermediate, between WIA and ACW)
NCP demo: http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=162
A great NCP AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7475

Regards!

[blwizard]

Thank you all very much! Also thanks for the demo, but my internet is speed-reduced at the moment, so I don't think I can try them for now.

On ACW you have a degree of control on politics, economics, unit creation and a much higher number of forces to manage, with advanced rules for Army/Corps /Divisions creation.

Does this mean that WIA is kinda shallow and has less control over such things? I don't know if you guys have played Europa Universalis 3, but I really want a game has as much strategic depth as EU3 does.

[berto]

WIA ... Units count is lower ...

This, I think is one reason I enjoy WIA so much. It is chess-like, with its small unit counts but near-limitless movement possibilities and strategies.

[berto]

Does this mean that WIA is kinda shallow ... ?

Shallow in the sense that Lake Superior is shallower than the Atlantic Ocean. But both are still deep.

[blwizard]

Shallow in the sense that Lake Superior is shallower than the Atlantic Ocean. But both are still deep.

Whats the emphasis of WIA and ACW? As for EU3, its highlights are colonisation, diplomacy, religion, trade, and demestic management, and it also has lots of other features like missions, decisions (religious, provincial and national) to keep you away from being bored. I'd choose whichever is more like this.

[berto]

Without question, AACW is more like EU3 than is WIA. But that's like saying a house cat is more like a leopard than is a puppy dog. (Not suggesting any superiority of EU3 in this analogy.) The AGEod games (so far) are quite different from Paradox games. Think "war game" and not so much "history game". The AGEod games definitely focus on warfare, and all other aspects are just sideshow.

Another huge difference between the AGEod and Paradox games. AGEod games (so far) are basically two-sided, while Paradox games have dozens to hundreds of sides (albeit most of them controlled by the AI).

As mentioned, AGEod games are turn-based, while Paradox games are pausable "real time".

The differences go on an on. Returning to animal metaphors, they're really two different kettles of fish.

[arsan]

Hi
blwizard,
Shallow is not a word that defines any AGEOD games!
But bear in mind AGEOD games are essentially wargames, not strategic games like Paradox.
On AGEOD games, the military part is muuuuch more elaborated and complex (and muuuuch more fun!!), but you don't have full control of economy/diplomacy/internal politics... like in the typical Paradox games.
On both AACW and WIA, the game try to put you on the shoes of the overall commander of one of the sides. You ar not a "all powerful and immortal" monarch/president advisor like in EU or Hoi.
In this regards, on ACW you play lets say, Lincoln, and have pretty big powers to order units formation, new taxes, printing money, taking different political measures and trying to fund transport assets and production improvements on the different states.
But all this is to support the war effort. This are not an economy game.

On WIA, your powers outside the military are more limited.
You are on the shoes of the commanding general of lets say the British on the American revolution. As that, you can manage your troops, ask for help to the king in Europe, influencing the units and replacements you will get from there by spending Commitment Points, gaining support of the indians... and basically trying to win the war. B
ut you can't actually "build" regular regiments around or put factories on a town. Economy and unit creation is sometime the king and their advisors in Britain control, not you!
As the USA player, you have to try to control and coordinate the different colonies armies, but you have limited abilities to raise militias, as they are volunteer patriots, not conscripts.
For example, on winter a big part of the USA militia army dissolves and go back to their homes. The same happens with indians.
On spring, new militia units pop up around and raise to the banner again and you have to reorganize your efforts.
It's kind of "frustrating", but very historical and very fun. Its a handicap you have to play with, like Washington did back then!

So, basically, both games have lots of options and depth (ACW more, a there are more things under your control) but they have a wargame approach. Not an strategic/political/diplomatical/religious approach like EU.

Regards!

[blwizard]

Thank you very much arsan and berto for your patience and detailed explanation. Now I"m clear about the concept of war game and I think they're more like Total War series. I'll give ACW a go, and here's one last question. Does the box version of ACW come with a detailed hardcopy manual? If it doesn't, I'll just buy the electronic version.

[arsan]

I'm not sure about how is exactly the manual of the box as i have the direct download version. Some other guy will have to answer this...

It must have paper manual, but maybe its not the latest updated version of it.
If you want to give it a look, the latest manual on pdf for AACW is available for download here
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=105

Regards

[berto]

Thank you very much arsan and berto for your patience and detailed explanation. Now I"m clear about the concept of war game and I think they're more like Total War series. I'll give ACW a go, and here's one last question. Does the box version of ACW come with a detailed hardcopy manual? If it doesn't, I'll just buy the electronic version.

You're welcome. Sounds like AACW would suit you better.

But beware: the AGEod games are much deeper, more complex, than the Total War series.

The box version does come with a hardcopy manual, but the game is patched so often that the printed manual would in parts be outdated. For the latest info, you should look for the on-line .pdf version, the Wiki, and of course this forum.

We failed to mention: AGEod games are patched much more often than Paradox games (with improvements in newer games retrofitted to the older games), and AGEod doesn't charge you expansion pack prices for the improvements.

I think you'll find the AGEod devs and player community to be whole lot nicer (and dare I say more mature?) than the Paradox community as a whole. Excellent forum moderation at AGEod has a lot to do with the better community character around here.

[blwizard]

I'm not sure about how is exactly the manual of the box as i have the direct download version. Some other guy will have to answer this...

It must have paper manual, but maybe its not the latest updated version of it.
If you want to give it a look, the latest manual on pdf for AACW is available for download here
http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=105

Regards

Cheers, mate .

[Quote=berto]
I think you'll find the AGEod devs and player community to be whole lot nicer (and dare I say more mature?) than the Paradox community as a whole. Excellent forum moderation at AGEod has a lot to do with the better community character around here. [/Quote]

Yeah I've noticed that, thats why I'm going to buy their game .

Edit: by the way, I've just seen the AACW manual. It's version 1.05 but the latest patch is 1.11d, will AGEOD eventually get their manual up to date? This is not quite important, but I just want to know.

[Jarkko]

Now I"m clear about the concept of war game and I think they're more like Total War series.

Err... no. Nope. Not at all like TW series. At least not AACW. AACW is a bit like Dominions 3, but there is no magic, only one opponent and you can play only on one map

[ohms_law]

Edit: by the way, I've just seen the AACW manual. It's version 1.05 but the latest patch is 1.11d, will AGEOD eventually get their manual up to date? This is not quite important, but I just want to know.

Probably not... if for no other reason then printing a manual costs $$$.
The update does come with an slightly updated .pdf version, though. More importantly, the Wiki is very up to date: http://ageod.nsen.ch/aacwwiki/Main_Page
Rafinki keeps that going, and does an excellent job with it.

[Ayeshteni]

I would also suggest buying Birth Of America (the first one) as a great introductory game to the AGE system.

I believe it is going at a good price these days.

Ayeshteni

[blwizard]

Hi folks, I finally got my credit card ready to use today. I'm going to buy the electronic version of the game, but my question is, will I be able to burn the downloaded files to DVD for future install? Thanks!

[arsan]

Hi folks, I finally got my credit card ready to use today. I'm going to buy the electronic version of the game, but my question is, will I be able to burn the downloaded files to DVD for future install? Thanks!

Absolutely!
There is no activation, no need to Internet connection, no limited reinstalls... anything. Just your serial number which you will be asked for after installing.
The serial is sent to you by email and in the purchase screen.
What you download is the full game in one big executable file. You can (and should) back it up in a CD-R, DVD-R HD, or whatever for future reinstalls.
And don't forget to add a txt file with your serial number to the backup!

[NefariousKoel]

Thank you very much arsan and berto for your patience and detailed explanation. Now I"m clear about the concept of war game and I think they're more like Total War series. I'll give ACW a go, and here's one last question. Does the box version of ACW come with a detailed hardcopy manual? If it doesn't, I'll just buy the electronic version.

The boxed manual isn't huge and it's for an older version but most everything in there is still valid. It was a huge help in learning what goes on under the hood for me.

I'm sure the manual is installed in a pdf anyway, though.