User avatar
Aphrodite Mae
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: With Dixicrat

Our Community

Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:47 am

These forums used to be a lovely and wonderful place. I'm not talking about "birds and bunnies and butterflies", I'm talking about practical, sensible considerations: it was a community of intelligent men who shared a common interest, and who engaged in cool conversations that were interesting and instructive to read, and sometimes delightfully funny, too! :) Disagreements weren't uncommon, but when they occured they were argued in sane and sensible ways that appealed to reason. Sometimes there were unfortunate misunderstandings, but the moderators of the forums acted wisely, and with measured responses. At that time, we could probably have survived without moderators, because for the most part, the forums were self-moderated.

Well, times have changed.

Frankly, guys, I'm appalled at many of the posts that I've seen, lately. In some cases, it seems as if people are eager to start a fight at the slightest provocation. There's no effort to see if there's some misunderstanding; it's just a knee-jerk reaction: Attack! In other cases, people mock and insult one another, in a way that's just disgusting to me. And in many other cases, there is an utter lack of civility that just poisons the atmosphere. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I no longer look forward to logging on here. In fact, I am quickly coming to dread it. The fact that I continue to do so is only because of a sense of duty. A duty to... the memory, I guess, of what these forums once were. But it's also that sense of duty that compels me to try to find a solution to this "issue" of what the forums have become. If we don't solve this, the problem will only grow worse. If the problem grows worse, the attrition of good men who have the knowledge and skills to make our gaming better will not only continue, but will grow worse. And of course, so will the mood.

Here's what I'm thinking, about how we can deal with this problem. If you've got a better idea, we're all eager to hear it.

Maybe you've heard the expression, "Ignore the problem, and it will go away."
That's exactly what I propose that we do... but in a way that might be a bit different than what you might think I mean.

If someone makes a post that you think is offensive, don't respond. At all. In any way. No matter how mad you are.
You see, some people, for whatever reason, think it's fun to "get a rise" out of someone. These guys think it's entertaining to watch someone get angry.
Well... don't give them the pleasure. In fact, don't even give them the courtesy of a response, since such "courtesy" can be misconstrued as "a rise".
Instead, hit the little red and white button at the bottom of the avatar panel of the offending post. That will set off a silent alarm.

Then, the provocateur can enjoy getting a rise out of a Moderator, instead. Since you won't be a part of the conversation, the Moderator will focus all of his or her love on the provocateur. :evilgrin:

In the panel on the left of your User Control Panel, you'll find a button that's labeled "edit Ignore list". If someone is consistently rude, aggressive, or obnoxious, then I suggest that you put them on your "Ignore" list. Many of you have made new friends, here. I propose that you inform your friends via Private Message that you are putting the provocateur on your "Ignore" list, explain why, and invite them to join you in doing the same thing. If your friend agrees, then he, in turn, will PM his friends, and do the same thing. It will be a chain reaction that will spread.

Of course, the idea is that if enough people ignore an offensive person, he will eventually find himself alone, with no one to hear him except others of his kind. Indeed, he will find that even his legitimate questions and concerns won't be heard, except by his fellow provocateurs and the forum moderators... and I somehow suspect that because of their heavy workload, forum moderators won't be able to respond right away. If ever.

He'll either change his behavior and join our community; or, he'll eventually leave, because no one responds to his posts except for other people who have the same aggressive, rude tendencies. So: no need for finger pointing; no need to make threats of "banning" someone; no need to make threats of any sort, at all. Silence is the key. I think of the idea as "The Silent Revolution"! :)

So, what about those people who have an abrasive personality, but who have strong skills that are of value to our community?
Well, that will have to be your decision, on a case by case basis. Even so, I strongly believe that sometimes, we have to swallow a bitter pill to heal what ails us. For me, deciding to ignore such a person will be a sacrifice which must be made, for the greater good of "us", the AGEod community.

Are you sceptical about that? Well, I have two simple questions for you to think about:
How many good men have left our community in disgust, because of this issue that just keeps growing worse?
If we keep one talented but obnoxious contributor to our games at the expense of losing other men in droves, is that an attrition that we can endure?

Before I go on, I want to say that everybody gets angry, sometimes. Everybody has said things that they regret. But here, we have the luxury of editing our posts. Correcting our mistakes. Adding an apology, if its the right thing to do. Mistakes happen; but the wise learn from their mistakes. So: give people a chance to "wise up", before you consign them to oblivion, OK?
[CENTER]
*************************[/CENTER]

In my other threads, I always talk a lot about being a "gentleman". Let's make sure we're on the same page, OK? By "gentleman", I mean a man who is courteous, who avoids brash words and behavior, and who is tolerant of opinions which differ from his own. It doesn't require a college degree, discriminating taste, fancy clothes, or a big bank account to be a gentleman. All it requires is the common sense to see the wisdom behind the ideal of gentlemanly conduct, and the strength of character to act that way, even when it isn't easy.

I'm not talking about being a "boyscout"! My husband is the consummate gentleman. He's also unquestionably one of the toughest and meanest s.o.b.s that his foes will ever meet, if they push him to that extreme. I've seen him 'mop the floor' with "tough guys" who mistook his soft-spoken courtesy for weakness. I wish I hadn't, and that's all I'm going to say about that. My point is that courtesy and tolerance aren't signs of weakness in a man. More often than not, it's a sign of strength, especially when it's tough to restrain your urge to lash out. Call it "strength of character", if you want to. I do.

Speaking from a woman's perspective, I'll add that thugs attract the kind of women that they deserve.
So do gentlemen. ;)


[SIZE="4"][font="Book Antiqua"]Havely[/font][/size]

User avatar
ERISS
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 2115
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:25 am
Location: France

Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:02 am

Sure I'm not a gentleman, and don't want to be one.
As french, I like american words, and find some fun in bad words, and I may not see how strong they are as for me they are mainly 'typical'.

After so many years of East/West only truth, it's boring seeing them again and again everywhere*. USA is for Freedom, USSR is for People. May Punk spirit enlight you.

However, I'm ok for the forum rules. I may forgot them sometimes.

* EDIT: "again and again everywhere": Sorry, that's not that here. I just lived far too long in cold war propaganda that I can't bare seeing it just once now.

User avatar
caranorn
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: Luxembourg

Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:18 am

Can't say I've noticed any worthening of forum etiquette lately. But I'm not looking into all topics and I quickly start to ignore any that seem to veer off from the constructive (for instance PoN turn resolution topics)...
Marc aka Caran...

User avatar
Citizen X
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:34 pm

Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:14 am

caranorn wrote:Can't say I've noticed any worthening of forum etiquette lately. But I'm not looking into all topics and I quickly start to ignore any that seem to veer off from the constructive (for instance PoN turn resolution topics)...


Same here.
A quickly tempered guy myself I am not easily offended by a single expression of anger anyway.

However, I want to take this opportunity to apoliogize to everybody I may have insulted here. I assure that this has happened completely without purpose for I have the greatest respect to everybody here, especially the crew.

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:34 pm

I was away from the forum for some time but I haven't noticed increased incivility (but I don't read everything).

Anyway if some "trolls" are wandering in the forum I agree with our most delightful queen : let's ignore them.

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:47 pm

Mae, are you talking directly to trolls? Because I haven't seen a fight nor even a small "shuffle" since I've joined. And that was almost 3 days ago.
- Confederate

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:07 pm

Actually, the think that annoys me is proper grammar. Use capitals. Spell words right. Make your sentences actually MAKE sense.

Aphrodite, you do a good job at paragraphs & grammar.
- Confederate

vonRocko
Colonel
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:28 pm

Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:09 pm

Nice plea Havely, good luck with it.

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:17 pm

Confederate wrote:Actually, the think that annoys me is proper grammar. Use capitals. Spell words right. Make your sentences actually MAKE sense.

Aphrodite, you do a good job at paragraphs & grammar.


It is not possible to post about spelling without making a mistake or two. Is there a Hofstadter type law relating to this?

Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:25 pm

I would say things have been worse than they are now, IMHO...

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:51 pm

Hobbes wrote:It is not possible to post about spelling without making a mistake or two. Is there a Hofstadter type law relating to this?

Cheers, Chris


I'm not talking about little mistakes, because everybody makes mistakes. But I'm talking about the people that NEVER use capitals, always spell words wrong, always use comma's and period's in the wrong place, etc. all the time
- Confederate

User avatar
Hobbes
Posts: 4378
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:18 am
Location: UK

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:07 pm

Confederate wrote:I'm not talking about little mistakes, because everybody makes mistakes. But I'm talking about the people that NEVER use capitals, always spell words wrong, always use comma's and period's in the wrong place, etc. all the time


But apostrophe misuse is OK? I'm on shaky ground here :)

Cheers, Chris

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Hobbes wrote:But apostrophe misuse is OK? I'm on shaky ground here :)

Cheers, Chris


Well, yes. As long as your not like:

"well ive been playin as, teh CSA and i love tis game"

I see that crap everyday.

Now, like Aphrodite said, I'm just going to ignore this thread to spark another argument.
- Confederate

User avatar
Longshanks
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:48 pm
Location: Fairfax Virginia

Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:13 pm

Mostly, behavior here is fine. You should see the other forums I have to look at.

Once you've been in the business world a while, you learn not to hit the Send key quite so quickly as you once did. One can lose one's employment. But everyone has to learn that their own way.

Yeh, bad grammer cn b annying, but mebbe im on mi celphn.! :mdr:

I see bad grammar in advertisements, on the news channels and (of course) on the web all the time. I have come to assume that good grammar is only the foodstuff of a select group. Plus, bad grammar can be a literary device, yo!

User avatar
Jim-NC
Posts: 2981
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Near Region 209, North Carolina

Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:37 am

Franciscus wrote:I would say things have been worse than they are now, IMHO...


It comes and goes.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

charlesonmission
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:55 am
Location: USA (somewhere)

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:51 am

Mae,

Thank you for your post. I believe it is very well thought through. I'm rather new to games and forums and this is actually the only forum I regularly participate in. I have been here long enough to see Gray and Clovis decide to leave for some reasons. Losing experienced people is a negative. I've also noticed that most people that are on the forum are guests and don't actually do posts at all. That always surprises me. However, clearly more people are reading what is written than just the members.

Charles

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 pm

charlesonmission wrote: I've also noticed that most people that are on the forum are guests and don't actually do posts at all. That always surprises me. However, clearly more people are reading what is written than just the members.



That's something common on internet forums. It's the 1% rule or participation inequality.

User avatar
gchristie
Brigadier General
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:31 pm
Location: On the way to the forum

Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:00 pm

I appreciate the sentiment, and try to practice it myself. At times I've tried to get combatants to change the subject and return to the point of the original poster when they go off topic, though I've contributed to wandering off into the weeds from time to time. I work in politics (and that's all I'm going to say about that...) and have learned to be diplomatic (my tongue has the bite marks to prove it). Doing so costs very little, if anything, and what you gain is your dignity and the good will of others which is worth more than an occasional ding in one's pride (hope I used the apostrophe correctly there :) ).

Unless a person is exceptionally good at conveying the intention behind what they are writing, the reader is left to infer as to what their intention is. And that inference is subjective and informed by assumptions which aren't always correct. I've had a couple things taken either the wrong way or out of context here recently and I sent a PM to the persons I offended in both cases and one cooled down, the other got more angry. But at least I tried to take it offline and will continue to do so when necessary.

All that being said, I only check the AACW related posts so don't know if there is rough housing in other parts of the forum, though we hit a low point a few months ago specifically around some back and forth over the 1.16 patches. It seems like we've been heading back to higher ground here since the summer. Mae's suggestions will keep us moving in the right direction. Compared to most other forums, this one is inhabited by well mannered folks which is what keeps me coming back.

Now, where is my copy of Strunk and White? ;)
"Now, back to Rome for a quick wedding - and some slow executions!"- Miles Gloriosus

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:02 am

Mickey3D wrote:That's something common on internet forums. It's the 1% rule or participation inequality.


I post here often and I hardly, if ever, "lurk". But lurking is common here because of the vast amount of information available; if you look, if somebody needs help on playing as the CSA in AACW, then they just go back to posts from 2007 and find it. Simply, they don't need to create a new thread.
- Confederate

User avatar
Dixicrat
General
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:55 pm
Location: East Tennessee
Contact: ICQ

Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Aphrodite, I must concur with the consensus: I don't see the problem that you seem to. Or rather, not to the degree that would seem to compel you to initiate a thread on the topic. However, I've known you for a very long time, and I trust your judgement implicitly. So, I'll go so far as to say that if you think there's a problem... then there must be a problem that I've just somehow missed. In any case, I think that your advice is sensible, and well thought out. So: whether I believe that the problem is as severe as you seem to think or not, I'll join your "Silent Revolution".


Confederate, welcome to the forums! :) I agree with the sentiments that you've expressed, regarding online "illiteracy" and so forth. I also strongly agree with your point that people start threads to ask questions that could be easily answered with a small bit of effort on their part. Even so, I attribute that to inexperience, rather than laziness. (It still bugs me, though.) There's a wealth of information here that's readily accessible by doing keyword searches in older posts, as you've mentioned, or by using the Wiki. And of course, there is the library of links that are in my signature, to help newcomers understand the complexities and nuances of AACW.

My "link library" idea is not patented, gentlemen! ;) I encourage experienced forum vets to do the same thing with other AGEod games, if you feel so led. My single suggestion is to "keep it local", within AGEod forums.
[SIZE="3"]Regards,[/size]
Dixicrat

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Basic Training for AACW newcomers

User avatar
Aphrodite Mae
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: With Dixicrat

Great!

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:00 am

I'm happy that most of you don't see a problem. That's great! :)
Even so... if you should encounter anything of the nature that I talked about in the Original Post, just keep in mind my idea of "The Silent Revolution", OK?

For those of you who said that "you see a lot worse elsewhere", well, I'm sure you do. That kinda underlines one of the underlying premises of what I wrote, in the OP, you know? This place is different, and totally unlike anything else I've found online. Bill said it well, in one of Longshank's Tourny threads: here, we have Competition, Culture, Humor, and Convivial Companionship! That's all a big part of what makes this place so exceptional.

Another thing that makes this place great is the opportunity that we have here to make new friends. I'm not talking about "Facebook" type friends; I'm talking about actually getting to know people better. I've met many new friends here. People who I care about, and who I enjoy exchanging emails with. That's one of the main reasons why I love this community of gamers: more than being a name and an avatar, many of the people here are real friends. You already know that friendships can enrich your world, and expand your knowledge. But consider how much more so, when you're a part of an international community!

Whether its interesting recipes to try from Scotland or France or Afghanistan, or cool pictures of a buddy riding his bicycle through a jungle, or an MP3 file of your pal playing a tune on some exotic instrument that's a part of his culture... there's so much to experience, through our friendships here! :) It's like a National Geographic special, where you know everybody, in every scene. ;)

Anyway, please excuse this long, rambling post. If there's a point to it, I suppose that it's simply that I love this community. Anything which hurts it makes me sad. I want to see it grow, and prosper. Hopefully, you do, too. :)

User avatar
Confederate
Lieutenant
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:32 am
Location: USA

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:02 am

For those of you who said that "you see a lot worse elsewhere"


Just check the Gameloft forums, Queen ;)
- Confederate

User avatar
Dunhill_BKK
Sergeant
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:55 pm

Thanks.

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:39 am

I didn't know we had an ignore button. I've added two people and its made a big change to the threads in one forum, although it would be even better if it hid thier threads as well.

Return to “General discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests