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Generalisimo
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Empire Total War is coming... and an expansion too?

Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:13 pm

Yesterday I was looking in Steam to see when this game was coming... to my surprise, it will be finally released on March... but, I had an even bigger surprise when I saw the first expansion already available too... :w00t:

WAIT? WHAT??... AN EXPANSION?? :blink:

Yes, the game hasn't been released yet, and you can buy the original game:
Empire Total War -> $49.99
Or the expansion pack:
Empire Total War: Special units -> $69.99

So, I decided to look to see what this "early expansion pack" adds to the game... and the list is incredible:
In a time when a soldier's life could be given easily and quickly, it took extreme courage and determination for a true hero to forge a reputation for themselves.

Whether through harsh and highly disciplined training, generations of successful military tradition or world-leading technology, the units available as part of the Empire: Total War Special Forces Edition are among the very best of the best.

The Special Forces Edition introduces six of the most influential military forces of the 18th Century. True to the period, these exclusive elite units become available on the campaign map via a certain faction or once a specific geographical region is under control.

Each elite unit brings with it the potential to open up dramatic new strategies and turn the tide of your campaign. A cornerstone of your Empire's land or naval forces, each has the potential to be used to decisive and devastating effect.

Empire: Total War Special Forces Edition consists of the following premium content for aficionados of the Total War series. This content is for use with Empire: Total War. Once Empire: Total War is installed the elite units will become available in the single player game.

* HMS Victory — The Royal Navy's most distinguished and formidable first rate ship of the line; Lord Nelson's 104 gun flagship is one of the most heavily armed ships of the 18th Century.
* Rogers' Rangers — Major Robert Rogers' company of rangers are highly trained elite light infantry, specialising in reconnaissance and special operations. They are extremely mobile in even the most challenging environments.
* Ottoman Organ Gun — A viciously powerful field gun, able to inflict incredible damage on the opposing army. Emphatic proof of the Ottoman Empire's advanced knowledge of gunpowder and firearms technology.
* Ghoorkas — "Better to die than be a coward" has been the motto of these elite Nepalese soldiers for centuries. Disciplined, tough and courageous, they carry a deadly 18-inch long, curved knife known as the kukri.
* Corso Terrestre Guerillas — An independent light infantry guerrilla regiment, experienced in skirmish and stealth tactics. Surprise raids and ambushes are the guerillas' favoured tactics, a way to compensate for their limited number and light armour.
* Bulkeley's Regiment — A French unit of Irish mercenaries with a fearsome reputation for hardiness. Exceptionally tough and resilient, they make for a highly flexible and dependable regiment.


So, I am paying an extra $20.00 for six units??? :blink:

Really, incredible... can someone explain this to me?... I MUST be missing something here :wacko: ... or maybe not, it IS that simple... :w00t:

:D
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lodilefty
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:23 pm

Wow! A level of greed approaching that of the US Banking system :wacko:
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Carnium
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:28 pm

Generalisimo wrote:Really, incredible... can someone explain this to me?... I MUST be missing something here :wacko: ... or maybe not, it IS that simple... :w00t:


Not really.They just know how to cash in double time.
Why offer an "expansion" after the release of the game if you can add a thing or two and call it "a collectors edition" :D
Imagine how much could AGEOD earn if they would charge for all the improvements for its games.Or just for AACW...

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Generalisimo
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:36 pm

Carnium wrote:Not really.They just know how to cash in double time.
Why offer an "expansion" after the release of the game if you can add a thing or two and call it "a collectors edition" :D
Imagine how much could AGEOD earn if they would charge for all the improvements for its games.Or just for AACW...

But this is definitely a different thing... I LOVE collectors edition, like for example, the Fallout 3 one. You can buy the normal version or the collector's edition that includes:
# COLLECTOR'S EDITION: Presented in a customized, metal Vault-Tec lunch box
# COLLECTOR'S EDITION: Collectible 5" Vault-Tec Vault Boy Bobblehead
# COLLECTOR'S EDITION: 'The Art of Fallout 3' hardcover book, featuring never-before-seen concept art and commentary from Bethesda Game Studios artists
# COLLECTOR'S EDITION: 'The Making of Fallout 3' DVD that includes an inside look at Bethesda Game Studios and the team behind the game.

I will surelly pay for a collector's edition that include those SPECIAL bonuses... you can even have the funny little bobblehead:
[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]

But, adding 6 units to a game (that should be in the original game)... is really FAAAAAR beyond what I can expect for a "special version" on the day of release :bonk: ... and my extra $20.00 :grr:
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Franciscus
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:00 pm

The solution is very simple, really ;)
You just have to...not buy it. It is YOUR choice, after all... :cool:

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TiFlo
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:02 pm

Just wait a few months. There will likely be some mods around adding those units anyway, along with more realism.
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Generalisimo
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:06 pm

Franciscus wrote:The solution is very simple, really ;)
You just have to...not buy it. It is YOUR choice, after all... :cool:

That was OUT OF THE QUESTION :w00t: ... really... did you ever doubted that I will buy the "super special pack of +$3.00 per unit"? :w00t: :D

I was only surprised at this.... I never thought they will go that far... :blink:
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runyan99
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Based on past experience, Empire will be buggy as hell on release and the AI will be dumb as a bag of hammers, so I would not bother with it for a year or two after release, then pick up the Gold Pack, or whatever.

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Syt
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:17 pm

I pre-ordered the Special Forces edition from Amazon.co.uk (comes additionally with Dahomey Amazons - get it?). Considering how shitty the British Pound is doing ordering there, plus shipping, is still slightly cheaper than buying the regular version here off the shelf for RRP.

And with an English version (instead of a German language one) I will have an easier time than with M2:TW when it comes to modding.
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Jojo le Gouffy
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:20 pm

The same runyan99
I have done this with MTW2...and two years after, it's cheaper...and there is some good free mods
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Flop
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:28 pm

Usually I don't mind expansion packs, but when they contain stuff that should have been in the core game itself, I feel like I'm being cheated. It seems that some publishers are trying to turn pc games into collectible card games.

Considering they thought they had plenty of spare time to release an expansion simultaneously with the game, I hope the game has absolutely zero bugs on release.

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arsan
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:00 pm

;)
If AGEOD knew their business they should have released AACW without Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Grant, Sherman...
And sell them as an separate expansion pack.

"Tired of seeing how McClellan and Bragg mismanage your armies??"
Don't worry! for only 19.99$ more you can get the "AACW Good Generals" expansion pack!* :thumbsup:
[SIZE="1"]
*McClellan seniority reduction not included on the package. It's sold separately[/size]

:D

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Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:46 pm

I will definitely buy Empire Total War...but the game I am really longing for is Vainglory. :)

It's kind of shame that they are charging so much for flavor units, but in a game with a metric ton of 3D graphical assets, it's probably the only way they could justify the creation of very specific units which aren't likely to enter play in every game to their upper management.

Will I buy it? Maybe. :)

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:21 am

arsan wrote: ;)
"Tired of seeing how McClellan and Bragg mismanage your armies??"
Don't worry! for only 19.99$ more you can get the "AACW Good Generals" expansion pack!* :thumbsup:

*McClellan seniority reduction not included on the package. It's sold separately


:D


:rofl:
So true...
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:31 am

arsan wrote: ;)
If AGEOD knew their business they should have released AACW without Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Grant, Sherman...
And sell them as an separate expansion pack.

"Tired of seeing how McClellan and Bragg mismanage your armies??"
Don't worry! for only 19.99$ more you can get the "AACW Good Generals" expansion pack!* :thumbsup:

*McClellan seniority reduction not included on the package. It's sold separately


:D


And " your industrialization is poor? you can't equip your men? With our second expansion pack, for only 9.99$ you will get the fabulous Blockade runner.

The pack doesn't include the Northern Blockade flotilla. To be sold separately . "

Another good reason to wait for buying when cheaper...
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Generalisimo
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:12 am

arsan wrote: ;)
If AGEOD knew their business they should have released AACW without Lee, Longstreet, Jackson, Grant, Sherman...
And sell them as an separate expansion pack.

"Tired of seeing how McClellan and Bragg mismanage your armies??"
Don't worry! for only 19.99$ more you can get the "AACW Good Generals" expansion pack!* :thumbsup:
[SIZE="1"]
*McClellan seniority reduction not included on the package. It's sold separately[/size]

:D

Well, I was thinking EXACTLY the same... but for VGN... :thumbsup: :D
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Generalisimo
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:15 am

JackoWords wrote:I will definitely buy Empire Total War...but the game I am really longing for is Vainglory. :)

It's kind of shame that they are charging so much for flavor units, but in a game with a metric ton of 3D graphical assets, it's probably the only way they could justify the creation of very specific units which aren't likely to enter play in every game to their upper management.

Will I buy it? Maybe. :)

WIll I pay more than $3.00 for each "special" unit? :w00t: ... really, never...
If it had more "special" material, I will really consider it, like the example of Fallout 3 that I posted before... ;)
In this case, I preffer to waste it in buying a new song for Rock Band... :w00t: :mdr:
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:19 am

Definitely a better value. :)

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:07 am

Generalisimo wrote:WIll I pay more than $3.00 for each "special" unit? :w00t: ... really, never...
If it had more "special" material, I will really consider it, like the example of Fallout 3 that I posted before... ;)
In this case, I preffer to waste it in buying a new song for Rock Band... :w00t: :mdr:


Indeed! That Pipboy / Vault Boy figurine is ultra cool! :thumbsup:

I had just finished Fallout 1 for the first time (thanks to the cheap and great http://www.gog.com version :coeurs :) and i'm starting with Fallout 2
Great games!! :thumbsup:
I will play Fallout 3 when i have computer able to handle it... like on 2015 or so :wacko:

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:23 am

Before I forget.. this is actually not an expansion but just a "booster" pack with new units.
As usual they will release a real expansion or two for this series.Rumor was that the first expansion will cover the Napoleonic wars.

Idea for AGEOD.Re-release AACW as a GOLD version all patched up and with two different boxes.One for the Union and one for the Confederate.Thrown in a game guide and mini Confederate/Union flag or something more or less useful labeled as "collectors item".
This would sell like crazy (at least in the USA) :thumbsup:

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Generalisimo
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:20 pm

Carnium wrote:Before I forget.. this is actually not an expansion but just a "booster" pack with new units.
As usual they will release a real expansion or two for this series.Rumor was that the first expansion will cover the Napoleonic wars.

Sure, it is more a "booster" pack... like always, "real" expansions will come later (Barbarian invasion, Alexander, etc), but move this to the AGEOD world... imagine a "leaderless" VGN (or actually, filled with random leaders) and then the "booster pack" with the historical leaders for an extra $20.00 charge... :w00t:
I am sure people will start saying that AGEOD is "stealing" their money for just a bunch of portraits and stats... :wacko:

Carnium wrote:Idea for AGEOD.Re-release AACW as a GOLD version all patched up and with two different boxes.One for the Union and one for the Confederate.Thrown in a game guide and mini Confederate/Union flag or something more or less useful labeled as "collectors item".
This would sell like crazy (at least in the USA) :thumbsup:

Yes, but again, you are heading for a "collectors edition", that's VERY different from this "special units" pack... there is no "collectible" in there, just 6 units that can or not appear during your single player game... for a small charge of +$3.00 per unit... :blink:
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Carnium
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:52 pm

Well this special edition will in fact be a bit differentthan theregular one.The point is not WHAT they are selling but HOW then can sell such "special edition" that is not THAT special after all :D Of course I am talking about the boxed version and you about the stream one which is naturally a complete rip off...

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Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:07 pm

It seems that most "Special Units" are for countries I am not going to play anyway.
Well, since neither Amazon.co.uk nor Amazon.com is willing to ship the Special Forces Edition to my place I quickly lost interest in it.

Now, if they had added Austrian Grenzregimenter or Lützows Freikorps instead... But I am sure the modding community will take care of that :D

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Syt
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:44 pm

Btw, one of my favorite collector's editions was that of Neverwinter Nights 2. For 15 extra Euro I got the full version of NWN with both expansions, a nice mountain troll figure, a cheesy metal ring (chaotic evil) and some extras (soundtrack CD, artbooklet).

Doesn't quite beat the reprint of Manfred von Richthofen's diary that came with Flying corps, though.
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:34 pm

I agree that this is really ludicrous although there is a rational explanation. You have to understand a few things about the game industry first though.

Retailers still hold the whip hand and they really hate download sales since they fear, correctly as it happens, that it has the potential to seriously hurt their business. One of the ways they try to limit this is to force the publishers to sell games at the same price for downloads as for in store boxes.

But what about the "Special forces" game then. What it really is is the downloadable version of the Collector's edition which does have a lot more stuff then just 6 bonus units. They don't call it that though for obvious reasons.

Its still stupid of course but thats the reason it exists.

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Generalisimo
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:03 pm

TommH wrote:But what about the "Special forces" game then. What it really is is the downloadable version of the Collector's edition which does have a lot more stuff then just 6 bonus units. They don't call it that though for obvious reasons.

Its still stupid of course but thats the reason it exists.

You are right, IN PART, don't get confused, read what they offer carefully before reaching to a conclusion... you go to a store and buy the "Collector's Edition" of Empire Total War and you get:
* Empire: Total War
* 34 page manual
* Campaign Map
* Artbook "The Art of Empire: Total War
* 6 additional in-game units


You go to Steam, and buy online the "Special Units" edition... and you get:
* Empire: Total War
* 6 additional in-game units

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:
It's CLEARLY not the same... BUT THEY COST THE SAME!!! $69.99! :bonk:
That's the problem. ;)
I haven't read in any place that Steam will send to your home what are you missing from the Collector's Edition when you buy the Special Unit pack. ;)

In my case, I have to rely on Steam because the cost of shipping the game securely to Argentina + insurance is extremely high, almost like buying two units of the same game... :bonk:
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Flop
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:05 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:This is just an uninformed opinion. Download games have their own distribution cost structure differences that cause their prices to be nearly equal to retail boxed games. I recently asked HPS games why they did not switch over to selling their line of games in a download format since they are independent from retail pricing pressures. The answer I got was surprising. They actually showed me that they'd lose money (especially the first year) due to the additional cost(s) incurred in setting up the download distribution side of the business. If there was significant money to be made in converting their games to an all download format and then selling them at the same price as boxed games they would have done so several years ago.


I very much doubt this is accurate, although I suppose it's possible if we're talking about only one game. Obviously, once you have the download distribution method set up, costs will decrease for every subsequent game you release.

There are also alternatives to setting up your own distribution method. Vic Davis of Cryptic Comet is using a 3rd party system to distribute his game (he's only made one, so far), and afaik he's making money.

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runyan99
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:46 pm

ETW got an excellent review in the new PC Gamer.

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Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:08 pm

runyan99 wrote:ETW got an excellent review in the new PC Gamer.

Sure ,the game will surely be a blockbuster title... but that doesn't make invalid what I have been saying since I started this thread... ;)
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