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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Leibst
- Posts: 2581
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:06 am
- Location: Madrid, Spain
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Yurtoman wrote:I wish the next game was based on classical Greece; medical Wars and the Peloponnesian War.
There would be no bad one on the Spanish Civil War.
Greetings.
i think theres something already moving about that of Spanish civil war...
Headquarter game designer of Battles For Spain, Ageod English Civil War, España:1936 and Thirty Years War
HQ website
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Soulstrider
- Major
- Posts: 222
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:22 pm
- Location: Northern Lusitania
A personal favourite of mine not in the suggestions would be one about the Mongol Conquests, not only it's an incredibly fascinating period full of warfare it allows so many different type of factions and warfare to be present, Steppe nomads, the Chinese Empires, the Muslim nations and the Eastern Europeans, not to mention the smaller Mongol incursions to India, Indochina and Japan could be present (they all got defeated in those though to be honest in India those were smaller raids)
The Thirty Years' War is easily the conflict I'd most like seeing an AGE game about. It is definitely my favourite historical conflict, and there has not been, to my knowledge, a single computer wargame that has ever depicted it at any scale. Furthermore, it presents excellent opportunities for having scenarios covering anything from massive campaigns to smaller and shorter conflicts, and the AGE engine seems to me as pretty well suited for depicting warfare in the era.
Well, that's what I would like the most, but I wouldn't mind other conflicts like the English Civil War. And perhaps the Thirty Years' War is not popular or well known enough in general, even though it really should be given its historical importance, to have its own game be successful. So I was thinking, how about instead of a game about just the Thirty Years' War, using the AJE expansion model to have a game covering a whole bunch of wars during the Renaissance era? There's already a large European map project being worked on, which would be perfect for something like this. You can have the base module cover the Thirty Years' War or the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, and then have DLC for the Italian Wars, Eighty Years' War, French Wars of Religion and any number of other wars possibly stretching as far as the Nine Years' War or beyond. Granted, most of these aren't much (or any) more popular than the Thirty Years' War, but you can have a lot of variation to make up for that. I'm not sure how viable a game like this is, but at least I would certainly buy something like this and most or all associated content.
Well, that's what I would like the most, but I wouldn't mind other conflicts like the English Civil War. And perhaps the Thirty Years' War is not popular or well known enough in general, even though it really should be given its historical importance, to have its own game be successful. So I was thinking, how about instead of a game about just the Thirty Years' War, using the AJE expansion model to have a game covering a whole bunch of wars during the Renaissance era? There's already a large European map project being worked on, which would be perfect for something like this. You can have the base module cover the Thirty Years' War or the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, and then have DLC for the Italian Wars, Eighty Years' War, French Wars of Religion and any number of other wars possibly stretching as far as the Nine Years' War or beyond. Granted, most of these aren't much (or any) more popular than the Thirty Years' War, but you can have a lot of variation to make up for that. I'm not sure how viable a game like this is, but at least I would certainly buy something like this and most or all associated content.
Apparently up to now the polls top four are: 30YW, Napoleonics, Middle Ages, Antiquity.
Reals dogs are: WW2 and Wars in America II.
And there's quite a large midfield.
Voters:128.
Can Ageod survive serving the disperate special interests of 128 customers?
Concerning the spread of votes:
What about making Ageod's next project a sandal & black powder version of Norm Kogers The Operational Art of War (TOAW)?
Such a project would include:
-the European Map Project (and, if this legally possible, Pon's world map)
-a map editor
-a multi-purpose AI with editor
-and a set of the already existing databases from previous games.
The easier such a game editor is to handle, the better it would be. Like TOAW it would depend on a multitude of user made scenarios. And potentially become a classic as well. It'll be up to us to *finally* realize our *dream* scenarios, like the Great-4-Hour-Mushroom-War of BC 571.
What do you think?
Best regards
Reals dogs are: WW2 and Wars in America II.
And there's quite a large midfield.
Voters:128.
Can Ageod survive serving the disperate special interests of 128 customers?
Concerning the spread of votes:
What about making Ageod's next project a sandal & black powder version of Norm Kogers The Operational Art of War (TOAW)?
Such a project would include:
-the European Map Project (and, if this legally possible, Pon's world map)
-a map editor
-a multi-purpose AI with editor
-and a set of the already existing databases from previous games.
The easier such a game editor is to handle, the better it would be. Like TOAW it would depend on a multitude of user made scenarios. And potentially become a classic as well. It'll be up to us to *finally* realize our *dream* scenarios, like the Great-4-Hour-Mushroom-War of BC 571.
What do you think?
Best regards
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beuckelssen
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:16 pm
- Location: Galicia caníbal
If the game is not about a very famous conflict I think that is important the player can choose between a lot of countries. And if his own country is in the list the better. The 30 years war offers this possibility. I know for a fact that in a lot of Spanish forums people complained because the couldn´t play with Spain in Pride of Nations.
PhilThib wrote:Idea is great but that's a lot of work and won't sell much (because it will please a few dedicated and passionnate modders, but I would not bet that we can reach more than a 100 persons this way).
I think TOAW selled quite well. (Apparently it enabled Mr. Koger to stop making games - apart from a 1905-WW1 RT operational naval game ... without any impact).
Anyhow, with RTS and Shooters as *mainstream* one really has to think twice how to make an 1. operational 2. turn-based game about 3. *niche* conflicts that reaches more than a 100 persons. With those three handicaps.
Disclaimer: This is not about making Agoed design WW2 shooters. I love your games, all of them. This is about thinking about Ageod's future, regardless of my special interests.
Just kicking some ideas around, like ...
- *If* 1. operational 2. turn-based game about 3. *niche* conflicts are three handicaps then try to eliminate one of them.
- Arguably the most successful TB wargames are Panzer General and those Grigsby monster games, aren't they?! Totally different concepts. Try beer & pretzels or monster. Wait, isn't Pon monster?
Best regards
FWIW when contemplating popular epoches for the next Ageod game.
GMT board games all time bestsellers
http://www.gmtgames.com/c-44-best-sellers-all-time.aspx
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/1Z4K5sLa_v8
Twilight Struggle Deluxe Edition (two-player CDG set during the Cold War)
Battle Line (2 player Family strategy game, ancient setting)
Paths of Glory (card-driven game; 2-player strategic WWI game)
Commands & Colors: Ancients (Fast-playing Two-player tactical block game of ancient warfare)
Great Battles of Alexander (15+ battles from the era of Alexander the Great)
Dominant Species (Evolution)
Combat Commander: Europe (Combat Commander Series, WW2 tactical)
Labyrinth (War on Terror, 2001-??)
Here I Stand (Protestant Reformation)
Wilderness War (French & Indian War)
Best regards
GMT board games all time bestsellers
http://www.gmtgames.com/c-44-best-sellers-all-time.aspx
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical/1Z4K5sLa_v8
Twilight Struggle Deluxe Edition (two-player CDG set during the Cold War)
Battle Line (2 player Family strategy game, ancient setting)
Paths of Glory (card-driven game; 2-player strategic WWI game)
Commands & Colors: Ancients (Fast-playing Two-player tactical block game of ancient warfare)
Great Battles of Alexander (15+ battles from the era of Alexander the Great)
Dominant Species (Evolution)
Combat Commander: Europe (Combat Commander Series, WW2 tactical)
Labyrinth (War on Terror, 2001-??)
Here I Stand (Protestant Reformation)
Wilderness War (French & Indian War)
Best regards
Raptor1 wrote:The Thirty Years' War is easily the conflict I'd most like seeing an AGE game about. It is definitely my favourite historical conflict, and there has not been, to my knowledge, a single computer wargame that has ever depicted it at any scale. Furthermore, it presents excellent opportunities for having scenarios covering anything from massive campaigns to smaller and shorter conflicts, and the AGE engine seems to me as pretty well suited for depicting warfare in the era.
Well, that's what I would like the most, but I wouldn't mind other conflicts like the English Civil War. And perhaps the Thirty Years' War is not popular or well known enough in general, even though it really should be given its historical importance, to have its own game be successful. So I was thinking, how about instead of a game about just the Thirty Years' War, using the AJE expansion model to have a game covering a whole bunch of wars during the Renaissance era? There's already a large European map project being worked on, which would be perfect for something like this. You can have the base module cover the Thirty Years' War or the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, and then have DLC for the Italian Wars, Eighty Years' War, French Wars of Religion and any number of other wars possibly stretching as far as the Nine Years' War or beyond. Granted, most of these aren't much (or any) more popular than the Thirty Years' War, but you can have a lot of variation to make up for that. I'm not sure how viable a game like this is, but at least I would certainly buy something like this and most or all associated content.
Once the Large Europe Map is ready (2013 earlies), you'll have the tools to make a 30YW game...all you need is a copy of ROP, put the new game map and DB in it...and then the crucial part: rework the models and units DB. If a modder is ready to undertake this part (i.e. designing the various nations, models, units and leaders), then it can be made...
After all, it's exactly how AJE was started by 2 guys....see the result !
PhilThib wrote:Once the Large Europe Map is ready (2013 earlies), you'll have the tools to make a 30YW game...all you need is a copy of ROP, put the new game map and DB in it...and then the crucial part: rework the models and units DB. If a modder is ready to undertake this part (i.e. designing the various nations, models, units and leaders), then it can be made...
After all, it's exactly how AJE was started by 2 guys....see the result !
That means Ageod core team won't do it?
Best regards
That would not work exactly likewise. AGEOD core team will work on a major project in 2012-2013 among the list above, most likely. And another one for 2013-2014. This is not certain that 30YW would be that project, despite the votes, because in the end there are also other aspects to consider in the choice of which title is selected.
So what I am saying is: IF the 30YW is not selected to be in the next 2 projects, it does not mean it is dumped
...if a team of 2, maybe 3 guys gather to do it, and they are as serious as the AJE guys ( :coeurs 
, then they will receive the same level of support as we did to AJE, and the game will be a real AGEOD game in the end. 
A game is an AGEOD game when made in the same philosophy and spirit, whoever makes it. It does not need to be made fully by the core-guys...otherwise you won't see more than a very limited number of games (2 guys alone can't be everywhere at once, but they can support some teams more efficiently)
So what I am saying is: IF the 30YW is not selected to be in the next 2 projects, it does not mean it is dumped
...if a team of 2, maybe 3 guys gather to do it, and they are as serious as the AJE guys ( :coeurs , then they will receive the same level of support as we did to AJE, and the game will be a real AGEOD game in the end.
A game is an AGEOD game when made in the same philosophy and spirit, whoever makes it. It does not need to be made fully by the core-guys...otherwise you won't see more than a very limited number of games (2 guys alone can't be everywhere at once, but they can support some teams more efficiently)
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Leibst
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- Location: Madrid, Spain
- Contact: Website Facebook
PhilThib wrote:That would not work exactly likewise. AGEOD core team will work on a major project in 2012-2013 among the list above, most likely. And another one for 2013-2014. This is not certain that 30YW would be that project, despite the votes, because in the end there are also other aspects to consider in the choice of which title is selected.
Philippe, i suposse, one of the main aspects you have considered each time you decide to start a project is its ROI.
but you have developed games covering some conflicts not very popular like in BoA, WiA, RoP and you have made them good games but maybe(i dont know) not enough sales.
Imo only AACW covers a war with a lot of potential fans and i suposse it have had lots of sales.
So 30Ywar would be in the line of RoP, WiA and we could see it as a tipical AGEOD product but im not sure it will be a good product in terms of sales because it is not a popular theme.
Headquarter game designer of Battles For Spain, Ageod English Civil War, España:1936 and Thirty Years War
HQ website
Leibstandarte wrote:Philippe, i suposse, one of the main aspects you have considered each time you decide to start a project is its ROI.
but you have developed games covering some conflicts not very popular like in BoA, WiA, RoP and you have made them good games but maybe(i dont know) not enough sales.
Imo only AACW covers a war with a lot of potential fans and i suposse it have had lots of sales.
So 30Ywar would be in the line of RoP, WiA and we could see it as a tipical AGEOD product but im not sure it will be a good product in terms of sales because it is not a popular theme.
Yes, that's the problem. A bad choice when picking a subject can be the doom of small studios (or big ones!) like Ageod, so we must be very prudent, even more than before, now that we are back in business. As some have said here, 'vocal minority' is not enough to give a game a success. More casual players must also like it. 300 people buying a game don't make the game a success...
Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."
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koningtiger
- Lieutenant
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- Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 11:49 am
- Location: Hispania Citerior
Talking about the demo. Do you plan to update it as time pass by and pathces arise? Other games like AACW have a very early version that, I guess, could be very different from the game now.
Just to make another example I was interested in buying RUS but I changed my mind. In fact the demo, maybe because it is an early version of the game, does not work on my pc.
Best,
Luigi
Just to make another example I was interested in buying RUS but I changed my mind. In fact the demo, maybe because it is an early version of the game, does not work on my pc.
Best,
Luigi
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MarsRobert
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Tampa Bay
Yurtoman wrote:I wish the next game was based on classical Greece; medical Wars and the Peloponnesian War.
There would be no bad one on the Spanish Civil War.
Greetings.
I second that motion on the Peloponnesian War. After AGEOD did AJE, it would not be a big stretch. As far as I know the only existing Peloponnesian War games are the scenario from Civilization 4 and the Indie game Hegemony: Wars of Ancient Greece. Both those games, however, are severe abstractions and therefore only marginally historical, and Hegemony's game system is rather unwieldy. Actually, the best game at the moment on the Peloponnesian War is an outstanding board game put out in the late 80's.
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Frosty_MooseHead
- Private
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- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:46 pm
My first choice would be WW-II Middle East (Wavell/Auchinleck). Obviously it would require a number of additions to the engine, but it should be feasible. It should also be an interesting enough topic to attract buyers (Rommel, Montgomery, Patton etc., combattants from several dozen countries, commandoes, land-sea-air cooperation etc.)...
Second choice would be AACW as it could use an overhaul...
Not so sure about other choices. Any WWII would be interesting. I think Alexander could be done in AJE so no need for a new game for that, and other Antique Greek Wars would probably warrant a smaller scale. 30 Years Wars and English Civil War sound interesting (as a re-enactor of the period I could probably find some additional customers), also two of the most influencial wars of history (more so for the 30 years Wars which I'd consider the most costly war of humanity after WWI (and before WWII)). For Napoleonic I'd wait to see what Paradox does with NCP-II (I assume it's still on). Medieval I'm obviously a big fan, but don't think it's really feasible (feudalism). Others also sound interesting, but my top choices are for a regional WWII and/or AACW-II...
Second choice would be AACW as it could use an overhaul...
Not so sure about other choices. Any WWII would be interesting. I think Alexander could be done in AJE so no need for a new game for that, and other Antique Greek Wars would probably warrant a smaller scale. 30 Years Wars and English Civil War sound interesting (as a re-enactor of the period I could probably find some additional customers), also two of the most influencial wars of history (more so for the 30 years Wars which I'd consider the most costly war of humanity after WWI (and before WWII)). For Napoleonic I'd wait to see what Paradox does with NCP-II (I assume it's still on). Medieval I'm obviously a big fan, but don't think it's really feasible (feudalism). Others also sound interesting, but my top choices are for a regional WWII and/or AACW-II...
Marc aka Caran...
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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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TheDoctorKing
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I haven't given up on the Latin American Wars of Independence project. If I could do a bigger map - all the Americas - it could have scenarios for everything from 1492 to 1850.
The maps are truly challenging. I fiddle around with mine from time to time and spent weeks and weeks going back over stuff I'd done and realizing that I had left spaces between provinces
Drives you nuts!
The maps are truly challenging. I fiddle around with mine from time to time and spent weeks and weeks going back over stuff I'd done and realizing that I had left spaces between provinces
Drives you nuts!Stewart King
"There is no substitute for victory"
Depends on how you define victory.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"There is no substitute for victory"
Depends on how you define victory.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Rome was what I wanted most out of AGEOD so my pet issue has been taken care of. Pretty much every option mentioned is interesting and I'll be honest I've wondered about many of them. English Civil War is not mentioned but if I were to pick one, that's it.
I don't love the idea of remaking an existing AGEOD game unless there's something really, really big changing. I'm having a hard time seeing what could be really changed on American Civil War with the current game engine. I mean, when you play it there are minor differences between it and the newer AGEOD games but nothing to me that's needed. Tactical battles (probably turn based) would be nice but I don't believe it's likely, and I don't hold that against AGEOD. Negate what I just said if a new engine is on the way.
Pride of nation's 2.... if it fixes the issues of PON then yes, but I'd still say wait for a new engine.
Napoleon and WWI might be worthwhile. Napoleon mainly for a grand campaign. But I would worry even about that game of it being too similar to AGEOD's current Napoleon game. WWI would be a lot more fun with the real AGEOD game engine rather than the system used in the current WWI game with it's... different turn system. I've had a very difficult time getting into that one. And I'd prefer if WWI had each country independatly controlled rather than grouped together in conventional AGOED style because that's just way too much micro management. Maybe give the option for either style to keep everyone happy .
I've thought about WWII, and I would buy it. I don't know if it would work or not. Air and sea would need some major re-working. That said I do think it's worthwhile IF, and only IF it's a full campaign game. I wouldn't be that thrilled to see smaller scale scenario's Napoleon style, nor would I be as excited to see just one theater. Although, one theater scenario's shoudl be included The issue there is that the game might become a micro management nightmare. My favorite AGEOD games tend to be the ones that don't require too much micro management (South Russians in RUS as an example). Imagining commanding the entire allied side is horrifying. Even commanding just one country would be difficult.
China and Thirty Year Wars, I honestly have thought about the Chinese Civil War... and in a lot of ways it would be a lot of fun. Bigger armies and than RUS. Large battles and a more modern timeframe without needing to change that much from the current system. But it's very niche as it's unlikely the game could be bought in China because I don't see their government being willing to allow a game with their side having the potential to lose. Thirty Years War could be a lot of fun and would fit with the engine well. Both titles are really niche though... but I think thirty Years War might work. Spanish Civil War would also be interesting, more manageable than China's, but probably too niche. Still would be worthwhile as a scenario in a larger WWII game.
I think Medieval would be workable. I'd like to see Hundred Years War and War of the Roses together. With a grand campaign and some smaller scenario's and campaigns. Same with Crusades.
Another pet idea, not mentioned here, is colonial wars. Things like the Boer War and Sepoy Rebellion from PON, with a lot more in Africa, South America, and Boxer Rebellion and more. But it wouldn't be the best for multi player and that might hurt sales.
In terms of selling I just don't know. American Civil War and Napoleon have the advantage of bigger fanbases but they're a lot more crowded markets. Plus, AGEOD's then competing against itself for sales since they already have a game out on each. Same with the World Wars, but an AGEOD WWII game would be different enough that I think it would sell. WWI would likely be different enough from the original game that it would be worth it. Feudal Japan might sell well but Paradox AND Creative Assembly both have a game in that setting. Not sure if that would help or hurt. It's hard for me to tell what will sell well, although I can guess at what won't.
I'm really excited to hear what the new game is and hopefully it'll be a big seller.
I don't love the idea of remaking an existing AGEOD game unless there's something really, really big changing. I'm having a hard time seeing what could be really changed on American Civil War with the current game engine. I mean, when you play it there are minor differences between it and the newer AGEOD games but nothing to me that's needed. Tactical battles (probably turn based) would be nice but I don't believe it's likely, and I don't hold that against AGEOD. Negate what I just said if a new engine is on the way.
Pride of nation's 2.... if it fixes the issues of PON then yes, but I'd still say wait for a new engine.
Napoleon and WWI might be worthwhile. Napoleon mainly for a grand campaign. But I would worry even about that game of it being too similar to AGEOD's current Napoleon game. WWI would be a lot more fun with the real AGEOD game engine rather than the system used in the current WWI game with it's... different turn system. I've had a very difficult time getting into that one. And I'd prefer if WWI had each country independatly controlled rather than grouped together in conventional AGOED style because that's just way too much micro management. Maybe give the option for either style to keep everyone happy .
I've thought about WWII, and I would buy it. I don't know if it would work or not. Air and sea would need some major re-working. That said I do think it's worthwhile IF, and only IF it's a full campaign game. I wouldn't be that thrilled to see smaller scale scenario's Napoleon style, nor would I be as excited to see just one theater. Although, one theater scenario's shoudl be included The issue there is that the game might become a micro management nightmare. My favorite AGEOD games tend to be the ones that don't require too much micro management (South Russians in RUS as an example). Imagining commanding the entire allied side is horrifying. Even commanding just one country would be difficult.
China and Thirty Year Wars, I honestly have thought about the Chinese Civil War... and in a lot of ways it would be a lot of fun. Bigger armies and than RUS. Large battles and a more modern timeframe without needing to change that much from the current system. But it's very niche as it's unlikely the game could be bought in China because I don't see their government being willing to allow a game with their side having the potential to lose. Thirty Years War could be a lot of fun and would fit with the engine well. Both titles are really niche though... but I think thirty Years War might work. Spanish Civil War would also be interesting, more manageable than China's, but probably too niche. Still would be worthwhile as a scenario in a larger WWII game.
I think Medieval would be workable. I'd like to see Hundred Years War and War of the Roses together. With a grand campaign and some smaller scenario's and campaigns. Same with Crusades.
Another pet idea, not mentioned here, is colonial wars. Things like the Boer War and Sepoy Rebellion from PON, with a lot more in Africa, South America, and Boxer Rebellion and more. But it wouldn't be the best for multi player and that might hurt sales.
In terms of selling I just don't know. American Civil War and Napoleon have the advantage of bigger fanbases but they're a lot more crowded markets. Plus, AGEOD's then competing against itself for sales since they already have a game out on each. Same with the World Wars, but an AGEOD WWII game would be different enough that I think it would sell. WWI would likely be different enough from the original game that it would be worth it. Feudal Japan might sell well but Paradox AND Creative Assembly both have a game in that setting. Not sure if that would help or hurt. It's hard for me to tell what will sell well, although I can guess at what won't.
I'm really excited to hear what the new game is and hopefully it'll be a big seller.
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