What other (mini) games from AGEOD in the future

[Carrington]

We know there are hundred of interesting subjects around.

For the time being, the engine needs adaptation before we can deal with pre-modern themas (i.e. everything before the 1600's+)...nor can we deal with subject post 1914 now (missing the flight stuff....)..

So, unfortunately, stick your dreams to the 1600-1900 period...

..and, btw, do not include Napoleonic stuff...it may come as a separate game later on

I think I'd argue that you may be overestimating the need for engines to deal with airpower. Unless both sides have air assets, airplanes are just very expensive and very mobile artillery. It's a particularly useful point in game design -- just because you can simulate something doesn't mean you should.

With some changes in scale (weekly turns, for example), the engine would do a good job with the Guns of August 1914 on either east or west front. Similarly, Spain, 1936-38 would be a good game, I suspect.

[Pocus]

the AI is not fit yet for a front war.

[Troy Goodfellow]

I voted for the 30 Years War because I love that conflict. So many great personalities and might-have-beens. The Taiping is a close runner-up though.

I've posted further thoughts on my blog.

[Philippe]

Regarding the Sepoy Mutiny, I think it would be a really good subject for a treatment by the Ageod engine. The map area would not be that large, and the political choices shouldn't be too hard to reproduce.

Several years ago (ok, ok, 10+ years ago) there was a board game rendition of it done, if memory serves, in one of the later incarnations of S&T Magazine. It used area movement and the map looked very much like an AGEOD map.

Before you turn your back on this game for commercial reasons, just remember that an awful lot of people in the subcontinent have computers. All you have to do to the game is make it a bit more South Asia-friendly. You could be opening up a whole new computer market, and think of how much fun it would be to have different soundtracks for each side (actually, the East India Company's soundtrack probably wouldn't be that much fun to listen too, apart from the squirm factor).

[Philippe]

On the Taiping rebellion, a brilliant choice but not many people unfamiliar with Chinese history will understand why. I suspect that the spectre of the Taiping rebellion is one of the reasons the PRC takes such a hard line on the Falung Gong.

About 10+ years ago there was a game on this subject in one of the later incarnations of S&T Magazine. I think it was by Richard Berg, and I even got a second copy so that I could continue playing it when the pieces wore out.

What I love about the Taiping rebellion is that many of the dishes in Chinese restaurants are named after its generals, it involved one of the wackiest religious cults ever devised by the brain of a feverish graduate student who kept failing his examinations, one of the important (albeit minor) protagonists was the American community in Shanghai's privately raised Ever Victorious Army (commanded at one point by Gordon of Khartoum), and it included a military intervention by major foreign powers that ultimately lead to a great crime against civilization -- the burning of the summer palace at Peking.

All it needs is a little kung-fu and it it could be a smash hit (and probably a pirated smash hit) in the Far East.

For many years in a row Koei used to crank out the latest iteration of Romance of the Three Kingdoms for the PC and people lapped it up (though it helped that everyone had read the book). I wonder if you couldn't do the same with this title provided that it included plenty of local flavor, good music, and a bit of Jet Li...

[beuckelssen]

I voted for 30 years but Frederick campaings are also interesting for me.

But the game that i would really love is:

- Rome and ancient wars in general

[Duckman]

i think both Frederick and 30YW would be excellent topics, but I will vote for 30YW mostly because that topic has huge marketing potential, since I am not aware of any game covering this period, which involves most of Europe!

[saintsup]

But the game that i would really love is:

- Rome and ancient wars in general

second that !!! Something like Pax Romana with a good AI and a good UI ...

[Henry D.]

I'd love Frederick or TYW most, especially the latter (maybe with some English Civil War scenarios thrown in for good measure), since (to my somewhat limited knowledge) it has never been done on a strategic scale before. Yet I fear, since there was quite a bit of side changing going on among the minor participants throughout the conflict, it'll present a wormcan of problems for a great campaign diplomatic engine.

But then again, that would Your problem, not mine, wouldn't it?

[Duckman]

I have to admit that I have not played any AGeod games and am not intricately familiar with the features, so bear with me on some of these notes. Some of the topics that would be interesting in a Thirty Years War game:

-despite the large number of combatant nations, the actual war was fought between two camps. Catholic League vs. Protestants/France. As the war progressed, more and more countries became involved and so what started as a domestic rebellion in Bohemia in 1618 resulted in battlefields as far afield as Rocroi, Denmark etc.

-now i'm not sure how previous titles handle unit creation, but I think that since most of the units involved were mercenaries, money should be used to raise troops. how to get money? through pillage! (there could be various levels of pillage available to a unit stationed in a province. the higher the pillage level, the greater the loot. as a downside, that province would not be able to support as many units int he next turns and would only gradually recover its support capability).

the more you conquer, the more you loot, the more money you have, the larger your armies grow. (of course your monarch would supply you with a certain ammount) so this model would encourage conquest.

now what would stop this snowballing effect in order to provide the mid-end game to be more challenging? the concept of "bad-boy" (think EU/HOI). every conquest/political subjugation would result in all (ALL!) countries being pushed towards your opponents "alliance"/"ideology". naturally the starting point would be different.

on a scale basis:

Bavaria
cath<--0--------->Prot

Saxony
Cath<------0----->Prot

France
Cath<----0------->Prot

Denmark
Cath<----------0->Prot

This doesnt neccesarily mean the religion of the ruling class in a nation but rather its sympathies towards the various warring camps. As you as a player would gain more and more victories, more and more countries would join your opponents cause (possibly even countries of the same religion!). If you progress your conquests too swiftly, you might intimidate and frighten even your former allies sufficiently to join the opposing side!

-the goal of the game would be to completely defeat the opposing camp. possibly after conquest of a country's territory they would quit their former alliance and their political gravity would swing towards the player's end of spectrum. so as long as there is a single nation in the opposing camp, you have to prosecute your war. so if playing a protestant nation, as long as the Catholic League has a single member, the war is not at an end.

-1648, in 1648 the war ended by mutual agreement and returned the situation to "basically" status quo. here there are various options of ending the game. if nobody wins up until 1648, the game end in compromise, or the winner could be declared through point value they gained through the conflict/# of cities controlled etc.

-Pillage! as the game would progress, often contested provinces would become barren and basic dead-zones where no army would march without fear of loosing huge ammounts of troops to starvation/desertion.

-mercenary pay. mercenaries should be quite cheap to recruit but very expensive to support long term. combatants frequently did not pay their troops their wages (sweden an exception?). you could set various levels of support per regiments.less supported/lower supported regiments would suffer and their stats would decrease until they would desert.

-diplomatic options. not sure how diplomacy worked in your previous titles, but through the above system of political spectrum, i think the diplomacy of the conflict could be simulated.

English civil war: perfect intro campaign. simpler diplomacy, basically two parties: royal vs parliament. no switching sides, winner whoever defeats their enemies on the Isles.

[aryaman]

I voted for the 30YW and the ECW, IMO those are the ones better adapted to the BOA engine, the only problem I see is that cavalry should play a much more important role in battle.
As for Frederic campaigns, the main problem is that a game map based on provinces can´t deal with supply lines effectively, and that being such an important part in the wars of that period I don´t see how they could be covered realistically without substantial reworking.

[Pocus]

Shock factor yes. Definitively a must have for some games...

[Polo]

The Thirty Years War

Bavaria
cath<--0--------->Prot
Saxony
Cath<------0----->Prot
France
[color="Red"]Cath<---0-------->Prot [/color]
Denmark
Cath<----------0->Prot

[CENTER]
mini map for mini game[/CENTER]

http://www.pipeline.com/~cwa/TYWHome.htm

Introduction to the Thirty Years War
Background to the Thirty Years War
The Bohemian Phase of the Thirty Years War
- The Bohemian Rebellion (1618-19).
- The Bohemian Rebellion Crushed (1619-20).
The Palatinate Phase of the Thirty Years War.
- The Palatinate and Westphalia (1621-23).
The Danish Phase of the Thirty Years War
- The Danish War (1624-27).
- The Siege of Stralsund, the Peace of Lubeck and the Edict of Restitution (1627-29).
The Swedish Phase of the Thirty Years War
- The Diet of Regensburg and the Swedish Invasion (1630-31).
- The Sack of Magdeburg and the Battle of Breitenfeld (1631-32).
- The Swedish Triumph and the Battle of Lützen (1632).
- The Heilbronn League, the Fall of Wallenstein and the Battle of Nördlingen (1632-34).
The French Phase of the Thirty Years War
- The Fall of the Heilbronn League and the Peace of Prague (1634-35).
- The French and Swedes Alone (1635-38).
- The Siege of Briesach and the Franco-Swedish Recovery (1638-40).
The Peace of Westphalia.
- Setting the Stage for the Congress of Westphalia (1640-42).
- The Opening of the Congress of Westphalia (1643-45).
- The Westphalian Negotiations Continue (1645-47).
- The Peace of Westphalia (1647-48).

[Fatboy]

Could the Franco Prussian War be a contender? Or is it unsuitable becuase it didn't last long enough & because of the complex political changes that took place, particularly in France?

[saintsup]

Could the Franco Prussian War be a contender?

Was asking myself the same question.

[Sol Invictus]

Also the Austro-Prussian War. Because of the shortness of the war, the timescale could always change to single day turns.

[Pocus]

why not, we can also simulate hexes by using 6-sided polygonal regions

[saintsup]

why not, we can also simulate hexes by using 6-sided polygonal regions

[aryaman]

I see that, so far, 30YW is winning the poll, I have some reflections on things that are not actually implemented in BOA but should be in a 30YW game

1) Shock bonus for cavalry (Pocus already agreed to it)
2) Disease factor, very important attritional factor through the war, It should be related to the size of the army, so that the largest the army the stronger the disease penalty. Maybe some scripted events for pestilence at some provinces as well.
3) Ability to devastate a province, so that the enemy can´t forage in it. The net effect should be that armies could in fact create zones through which the enemy can´t advance.
4) A much more limited supply available, so that a big part of tactics should be to march armies separately, join for battle and then inmediately split again for campaign.
5) Stronger fortifications, harder to asssault, and a fixed garrison representing urban militia for anyone.
6) If there is some kind of economic system in the game that allows control of recruitment, like in the coming ACW game, it should reflect the fact armies were much cheaper to upkeep in enemy territory, collecting war contributions and foraging, so that everybody tried to take winter quarters in enemy territory.
Maybe some new units could be also required, as the basic unit would be the regiment, pikemen and musketeers could be represented as counters within every unit, however it could be interesting to have different types of cavalry
a) Dragoons, real mounted infantry at the time rather than proper cavalry
b) Light cavalry (Horse harquebussiers, croats...) for scouting and raiding
c) Medium cavalry (Swedish style)
d) Heavy cavalry (Cuirassiers/lancers)

[FM Daun]

Lots of good ideas there from Aryaman!
I think the factors of disease & supply would be particularly important in a game based on this period. Losses in battle actually represented quite a small proportion of overall wastage in pre-industrial warfare, and a serious wargame should reflect this fact, vexing though it would be for those of us addicted to sweeping manoeuvres in search of "decisive" victory.

[Duckman]

hooray! 30yw is winning!!!

i cant wait for the 1618 campaign

[aryaman]

Now that Vainglory is set to be next game, are there any plans for any of these minigames?

[PhilThib]

Minigames are still in the list, they are EXTRA products, in addition to our main collection...so lucky guys will get VGN + at least one minigame, may be too...

The poll was instructive in telling us which subject is of interest...but it does not mean we shall do it first anyway ... we may have more advanced designs and data in mini games that did not make it first place...

You'll have to get a few weeks before we do an anouncement

[aryaman]

Ok, just let you know that I have plenty of data about the 30YW if you need them
Regards

[Generalisimo]

I couldn't vote... but i would have voted for the Libertadores... guess why...

[GoldSpear]

form The Expatriates post:
The Raj: ([1773-1850] The expansion of the British East India Company vs. the Mughal Empire. The French, Dutch, and Portuguese could be included as well.) A mini-game could be made from the Sepoy Rebellion alone.Those are just two ideas off the top of my head. The point is that perhaps we should be reading more pages in our atlases other than the "Europe" section.

Excellent idea!This sounds very interesting; As I am reading the prequels to "Sharpe's" novels (Nap era) atm...
... or as in VainGlory, anything Victorian

[pasternakski]

I hate to be a party pooper, gents, but I wouldn't buy any of these titles. They got no juice. They got no pizzazz. Oy, dey got no spritz, even.

What - we couldn't reach back just a little and do the War of the Roses? No hypothetical post-Napoleonic depiction of European developments prior to the period to be covered by Vainglory of Nations? Howzabout the Russo-Japanese War? Spanish-American War? Anyone? Anyone?

I am curious why the game system is not yet capable of handling ancient era subjects - seems to me it would be easier, not harder.

[Pocus]

no real diplomacy module for now...

[christof139]

I couldn't vote... but i would have voted for the Libertadores... guess why...

Me too, and I would have voted for 1) Mexico, 2) Libertadores, and 3) ECW, and also added 4) Polish-Lithuainan-Ruthenian (Ukranian) Commonwealth campaigns from 1386 to the 1700's Partitions, very long and massive in time and context repectively.

Chris2 in Detroit, the Strait of Straights

[pasternakski]

no real diplomacy module for now...

I continue in my apologetic mode ... I should know by now to trust you guys to do good things ... but (and isn't there always a "but?"), if I had my druthers, I'd like to see resources devoted to expanding and polishing the game system so that those game topics that I think more interesting (and potentially lucrative, mais non?) could be addressed.

Of course this is just because of my personal gaming preferences, so it's just a self-serving statement amounting to nothing more than, "Wah wah wah! This is supposed to be all about ME! More ME now!"