Great invasions

[Korrigan]

Extract of a Philippe Thibault's post on the Wargamer forum:

The old website has been closed, as the company which runned it went bankrupt and closed all channels without warning. It took some days for the publisher, Nobilis, to restore the site and forums to a different address (for legal reasons). Here they are:

Website: http://www.great-invasions.fr/int-en/

Forum: http://www.great-invasions.fr/forum/

The game itself is still being checked and followed by myself and the lead programmer, Calvinus (from his home in Milano, Italy). We have released a patch 1.06a on that game on April 13th, and it makes the game even smoother and better than before...

If any one can give here a feedback on this new patch, I would be much grateful as the game concept of moving from a decading nation to a rising one is quite appealing to me, but so much has been said about Great Invasions that I would appreciate an impartial review (no offense meant, Philippe).

Korrigan

[PhilThib]

I can only be partial on that baby of course ..

For your information, my initial design on Great Invasions called for a turn-based system à la BoA. Unfortunately, when the project started 4 years ago, such an engine was unfortunately not available to me. leure:

If I had the time and means, it would be great to adapt GI on the BoA engine !!

[Tamas]

Great Invasions has come a very long way from its initial 1.00 version.

Its now a fun, polished historical strategy title with a solid AI. There is one problem, which can not be helped by its developer, Calvinus: the game is based on the Pax Romana engine, which makes the interface clumsier then its needed to be.

I think its worth it price, as all the hard work that has gone into it is evident, and some aspects of the game are just priceless (personally, I just love the religious mode, all those sub-factions of Christianity, the various missionaries, and the effect of them all. Like when you are busy fighting the Muslim hordes as Byzantium, but you simply dont have the means to stop their missionaries from converting the population of the middle-east. You only have so much assasination to make).

[Robin]

If I had the time and means, it would be great to adapt GI on the BoA engine !!

Totally agree ! And ready to work on this adaptation...

[Pocus]

not before Rommel drive the 7th Panzer in Washington

[PDF]

L'ancien forum a été perdu dans l'affaire ? Dommage, il y avait plein de trucs dessus... leure:
Pfff ces éditeurs, pas fichus ni de gérer leur boîte ni de sauvegarder leurs serveurs !!

[moustic]

y'a une belle différence entre les deux boites... désolé pour les frenchies

[Sandra]

Entre les deux, y a eu celle-là, qui fut morte-née...

[vLabz]

If I had the time and means, it would be great to adapt GI on the BoA engine !!

[moustic]

[quote="Sandra"]Entre les deux, y a eu celle-là, qui fut morte-née... ]

C'est Mme Sandra, qui a fait la version Française ? Non !

[Sandra]

Ben non, seulement celle que j'ai montrée, qui devait être pour l'Allemagne, et qui a été refusée.

[moustic]

Ben non, seulement celle que j'ai montrée, qui devait être pour l'Allemagne, et qui a été refusée.

Ouf, j'ai eu peur !
J'ai achetté le jeu pour l'auteur, mais surtout pas pour le pochette...
C'est vraiment pas beau.
Heu, j'espère que c'est pas Robin (le dessinateur)

[Sandra]

Non non, je ne connais pas l'auteur, à l'époque Robin et moi ne travaillions pas avec Philippe Thibaut. Nous sommes arrivés après-coup, pour donner un coup de main sur le site web et le manuel.

Ceci dit, le dessin a peut-être souffert d'un traitement a posteriori qui a donné ce rouge baveux ignoble... Le dessin en lui-même est sympa, avec un côté rétro comme dans les vieux bouquins d'histoire pour enfants.

[moustic]

[quote="Sandra"]Ceci dit, le dessin a peut-ê]

Perso... je n’aime pas ! Mais c'est sûrement une histoire de goût.
Remarque la pochette EN-US (que je trouve bien mieux), ça me rappelle les Visiteurs :
http://www.affichescinema.com/insc_v/visiteurs.jpg
Je préfère ce style :
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/caverne/attila.jpg voir http://www.attila.fi/

[Tamas]

A turn based Great Invasions on the BoA engine would totally rock.

The era, with the dramatic changes for nations and religions offers itself on plate for strategy gaming. there cant be too much games like GI.

[PDF]

Non non, je ne connais pas l'auteur, à l'époque Robin et moi ne travaillions pas avec Philippe Thibaut. Nous sommes arrivés après-coup, pour donner un coup de main sur le site web et le manuel.

Ceci dit, le dessin a peut-être souffert d'un traitement a posteriori qui a donné ce rouge baveux ignoble... Le dessin en lui-même est sympa, avec un côté rétro comme dans les vieux bouquins d'histoire pour enfants.

Arf, je pense qu'il vaut mieux qu'il reste inconnu, cet auteur ...
La pochette m'a presque retiré l'envie d'acheter le jeu !

[PhilThib]

A nice review of the latest version of Great Invasions is there : http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=682437

[vLabz]

L'ancien forum a été perdu dans l'affaire ? Dommage, il y avait plein de trucs dessus... leure:
Pfff ces éditeurs, pas fichus ni de gérer leur boîte ni de sauvegarder leurs serveurs !!

C'est quoi l'affaire du forum perdu ? Je vois en effet que le site a été bougé et le forum n'est plus le même, y'a vraiment plus accès aux anciennes données ?
Une migration peut-être encore être tentée ?

[vLabz]

If I had the time and means, it would be great to adapt GI on the BoA engine !!

Je me demande comment ça serait possible. Outre les millions de règles qu'il faut implémenter et les évolutions qu'il faudrait apporter au moteur AGE, je me demande quelle durée représenterait un tour ?
Je pense à la diplomatie, si un tour = un mois, ça va prendre 2 mois pour signer une paix par exemple (aller + retour). Si un tour = 5 jours, ça devient acceptable, mais 20 ans de jeu feraient 1460 tours.
Le problème est très intéressant je trouve : trouver le moyen d'exprimer un maximum de choses pour que le jeu puisse se dérouler sur 30 jours ou plus (chose faite dans BoA) sans intervention humaine.
Problème aussi pour les stratagèmes, et toute la tactique de guerre. J'utilise la reconnaissance avant d'attaquer, mais je n'ai le résultat qu'au mois suivant...

[PhilThib]

C'est en soi un vrai challenge et c'est pour cela que cela ne viendra que plus tard, sauf si on peut étoffer notre équipe...cela mérite une longue réflexion.

Mais une fois un bon système au point, on peut couvrir toutes les périodes de l'antiquité au moyen-age...

Si quelqu'un veut y cogiter et synthétiser ses propositions, je suis preneur

[Tamas]

Did vLabz volunteered to convert GI to the BoA engine, or what?

[vLabz]

Did vLabz volunteered to convert GI to the BoA engine, or what?

oops, not at all ! Just thinking about what would a "turn" represent if ever it was adapted to the BOA engine !

[Dtry]

I just heard that Great Invasions is going to be offer in North America. I think that is great. I am looking forward to it.

[MarkShot]

I just happened across this thread.

Some questions:

(1) I am familiar with EU2 and Victoria. How does GI compare to these games (in particular the AI and game play)? I find that in the Paradox games that there are so many exploits available to the player that it is hard to really have a good game without imposing lists of house rules on yourself. I also find in the Paradox games that despite offering lots of mechanics for the player, the AI does not use or is inept at many of them.

(2) One problem I have with grand strategy and empire/resource/economy based games is this: There always seems to be a threshold point in the game where if you can make yourself militarly or economically strong enough, your future accelerated advancement is assured. Games rarely swing back and forth. Either you reach the threshold point or you don't. Generally, the threshold point is reached very early on within a game (maybe only when you have played through 35%). Then, you are left with playing the game for another couple of weeks to finally claim your victory. Personally, I like games which see-saw back and forth and the outcome is in doubt until the game is 90% complete. That's why I tend to like non-first person warfare, since battles can lean one way and than another and the result can be in doubt until the end. In Grand Strategy games, the end states of the player rapidly diverge from the threshold point despite artificial aids added into the system to prevent such convergence (like badboy scores, neighbor tech bonus, stability costs, outright AI cheats).

(3) Is there a demo of the game to be found anywhere?

Thanks.

[PhilThib]

Mark,

as the game designer, I cannot decently tell you all the "bad" points of GI

Seriously, in the current GI version (i.e. vers 1.06 that SF will launch, and not the one that was released too early almost a year ago), there are points you will like:

1) many scenarios to cover 700 years of history

2) a unique concept of "life cycle" of your nations: they grow, prosper and inevitably die...no threshold problem as you fear, you are here to make a show on the historical place and that's it...only a very limited few will survive in the long run (e.g. Byzantine Empire, if you play it...)

3) another unique concept: you play more than one nation at a time

4) the AI is considered to be rather good by most (better than Paradox's)

5) game management, once you get familiar with the UI, is rather simple: not too many things to do, military and conquest strategy is at the center of gameplay

6) again something new: you can play a major Religion, and it's a game within the game

7) have a look here http://www.great-invasions.fr/int-en/index.php?Location=Home

[Frost716]

I'm definitley picking this up when SF puts it out....from the title I am assuming that maybe you are hoping to continue after 1066 in a future edition?..I'm hoping that's the case as that would lead into my favorite time period..middle ages-crusades..etc..

[MarkShot]

I downloaded the game docs last night, but have not had time to print them out and read them.

How is the learning curve on this one? I don't mind a learning curve as long as I will be playing the game for years to come. However, I hate it when a game has a huge learning curve and when you finally get past it, you decide not play it.

I took me six months to learn Victoria. Too much time invested for something with a lot flaws. (Of course, the game has a lot of potential; but that is Paradox's trademark ... unrealized potential. Which in a large way is due to the massive complexity of their games ... making it that much harder to program an effective AI with good game balance.)

[Henry D.]

Not to pick at old scabs, but is there any chance that we might see some kind of overhauled "Pax Romana" anytime in the future? With me being an old "Republic of Rome"-tabletop addict, it could have been my all time favorite game, if it had not fallen in the hands of rogue "We got Your money, sucker, we don't bother anymore, no customer support whatsoever " publishers like Dreamcatcher... leure:

[PhilThib]

My wildest dream would be to redo Pax (at least a bit simplified) with our new engine and excellent artworks...I still own the design rights, although not the commercial title, so this is technically feasible...in the future leure:

[Pocus]

Or something starting with the Phoenicians and ending with the fall of the western empire? ANCIENT WORLD the game that end all games on ancient history! (where are my pills?)